Topic: [Group Buy#2] Avalon ASICs CHIPS! 1 chip = .078BTC = 282Mhash! - page 3. (Read 21501 times)

I'm afraid I have to follow suit. Nothing against any of the organizers, and I know my contribution is rather small, but I don't know that I'm comfortable adding a new layer of confusion and a complete shift in responsibility. I've never been one to change horses mid-race.

We gave it a noble effort, but I think the best option at this point, at least for my part is to bow out and let others join respective group buys individually, if they so desire. I'm totally bummed that this didn't work out. 

With all due respect, I don't think I'm comfortable in adding a new layer of complexity to an almost already complicated one.

I would rather deal with 1 accountable direct individual that I can always speak via phone. So if a merger were to happen, consider me and my 126BTC out. Granted I'm new to the board, but there's just way too much leap of faith on my part to continue.

I don't think there's any need for escrow.  Raging's group didn't have any so I'll trust his judgement to make sure there are no snafus.  I can't speak for the rest of our group but my feeling is that the escrow is more trouble/time/cost than its worth.  I'd just like to see the 3 group leaders organize it asap. 

Another thing- in aggregate there will be a higher shipping charge.  This should be fairly nominal when divided pro rata by chip- I'm fine with whatever increased charges we need to pay to subdivide and ship.

While writing the posts for my groupbuy i thought a bit about this.

No offend to john, but i think theres no advantage in using an escrow. I mean the chips would be sent to Dabs anway... so that he holds all the value at some point. So the escrow would only be useful to not having another person holding all the coins. But thats not needed anyway. All 3 groups, once they have the needed amount of chips together, could send their share directly to avalon. Theres a timeframe for sending the coins. Only all three would need to get together via messenger or so and send the btc to an address.. For this area an escrow is of no big use anway... (Dont punch me john... )

Ill now write the posts to an end to see what my groupbuyers think about this all.

Im not sure if the groupbuyers will be happy with this because it involves a new layer of risk and at least some days longer wait. I think the normal fees for escrow are 0.25-0.5%, see here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/escrow-list-108716 (Nothing against John, i worked successfully with him before... )

Since 20 persons till now put in money into the GB i would have to ask them anyway what they think about this idea.

I think ill ask this question in my groupbuy and see what the response is.

JohnK has replied to my PM. He will let us know how this will go. We may have to modify the mechanics of the merged group buy for new orders and lock our respective threads to prevent mix ups or we can keep them going and race to a combined 10,000 chips. At this point, we're just waiting for SebastianJu (Germany).

My time is 23:17, (11 PM) so I'm going to sleep now. Good luck to us all.

Ok. I'll PM SebastianJu and point him here, if he hasn't seen my post already.

I agree for a merger. Use JohnK as the escrow.

The way I see it, there are three main group buys. The one in Europe (Germany). This one in the United States. And mine in Asia (Philippines). Merging might be possible (and we'd certainly see the pace pick up) but the three main group buy "administrators" would have to agree on pricing, and of course shipping, and then there would be one major group buy that gets the first shipment, and two sub-group buys that gets the next shipment.

I'm not counting steamboat's group buy, since he has already funded it.

Biased as it may sound, I propose that since I'm geographically located closest to where the chips are being manufactured and shipped from (China), I get it first, then I forward the United States (Connecticut) portion and the Europe (Germany) portion.

For example's sake only, let's pretend that out of 10,000 chips, 3500 goes to the US, 4500 goes to Europe and only 2000 goes to Asia. I simply re-package the 4500 chips for Europe and send them all to SebastianJu (Germany) and I send another package of 3500 chips to razingazn628 (Tom / United States). I also forward their "administrative costs" of BTC. I keep the 2000 chips for Asia and send them to their owners or to developers of their choice.

Also, in this way, people are free to choose to send their chips to whoever developer they want too, such as BkkCoins (Thailand) or Burnin (Germany) or the developers in the United States. People essentially go to the region where they want their chips to go to, if not directly to them. Any chips destined for whatever region, is considered from that same region. Thailand is in Asia. Germany is in Europe. United States is United States.

From there, it goes to their final owners.

All payments are made with bitcoin addresses that can sign the payments, verified in the block chain. We know who paid what and how much and for how many chips.

For this purpose of group merging, I would not be opposed to having a 4th party handle escrow, which in this case would most likely be the escrow guy in Malaysia (John). We'd all pool or funnel our bitcoins through him, he orders, ships to me. Holds the leftover coins to be distributed later to SebastianJu and razingazn628 and me. Keeps 1% or 2% as escrow fee.

If the price remains at what each group buy has per chip, then in this example, the funds also get distributed this way:
number of chips * group buy price = total bitcoins - wholesale chip price = administrative cost
3500 * 0.082 = 287 - 273.735 = 13.265 goes to razingazn628
4500 * 0.086 = 387 - 351.945 = 35.055 goes to SebastianJu
2000 * 0.086 = 172 - 156.420 = 15.580 goes to Dabs
Total 10,000 chips

For the group buy admins, the escrow would first deduct his fee, before forwarding their respective coins.

Final shipping is not included yet, and I don't think anyone has put a number to it until the chips arrive. I simply pass on the shipping costs going to Germany and to the United States with the funds coming from the admin costs. They can now charge individual shipping to the final customers, regardless of where the product will end up going.

I'm open to ideas, but if this is not acceptable to both razingazn AND SebastianJu, then it won't work and we're left doing our respective geographical group buys as they are now.

The major benefit to this is time. The major disadvantage (which may not be so much) is all the accounting.

I wanna grab 40 chips but doesnt look like there are any group buys close to ending

Combine this with SebastianJus group buy and we could almost order straight away?

uuuuu.... many :/ I think that we should think about the "group merging" idea because with this tempo we will not buy them on time.

Threw in another 2.61 BTC... let's get this going.

I wish the group buy would move a little faster I really want the chips.

We have ~7000 chips left.

you can see the spreadsheet.


I don't know how sucessful the merging would work people join specific group buys for better shipping etc. you know?


1) Avalon said 9-10 weeks ...
2) Don't know
3) I don't think a B4 will be possible with these chips in line...
4) Ask Avalon

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Here's my 2 cents.

You can buy these chips and EASILY resell! Because they are really high in demand!

Not sure if it's of any interest, but I am seriously considering joining the group buy for about 40btc, only problem is that a) I have nearly 0 understanding of how to build a system with those chips, and b) I didn't have the time yet to read up on this topic to determine if it makes sense for me to buy them.

I would like to add some words here... and I want to write that I am not affraid about the chips (if they are good or not) but about the documentation. I hope that it will be presented, as AVALON wrote, so there should not be problems with assembling them on the board. If the documentation shows everything about the signaling, pins IN/OUT, power etc. there will be a pleasure to solder it and make own mining machine I am electronic engineer and I am not affraid to make PCB... but withou the proper documentation chips will be only some "black elements" in my box
Soon I will collect my BTCs and send some to buy them.

The chances of a working system with these chips are 100%. Even if you don't count Burnin and Klondike projects, you can have an avalon clone made with the spec they'll be releasing in a couple of days.

I have every faith that both the Burnin and Klondike projects WILL come to fruition, but as somebody else mentioned, hedging bets and doing some of each might be the best option. Personally, I chose not to wait on the chip order, because I know the boards will be available from, at the very least, Avalon's source. The chips are urgent. The boards, we have time to figure out and decide. At any rate, the board options will be complete, available, and tested before the chips arrive in a few weeks. If you/we miss a chip order, we're out in the cold on this. I already have 85 chips coming from the last buy, but I'm really hoping to close this buy so I can bump my system up to 120 chips total.

We all have the same issues and the same risks.  The way I see it, because profitability is directly related to how fast we can get these asics hashing, we don't have time to wait until everything is proven.  To wait for the first reviews of Burnin's or another's boards means a wait of another 3 months or more (between queueing up for chips and the build)- which will represent a huge increase in network hash rate and corresponding loss of profitability.  There are a number of people working on boards and Avalon is going to release a spec as well shortly.  I think the odds of getting something working are pretty good, but to be safe I may hedge across 2 builders.  The key here is to get these in production before the rest of the bulk chip orders and BFL machines hit the network.

It's certainly more prudent to wait but you may not end up paying for your hardware anytime soon if you do. 

I am probably interested in around 500 (~40BTC)  but not without knowing the boards will work, and that I can find a local fab who can turn the PCB design into a completed product. I am therefore sitting for a bit, and I think many others are thinking the same.

I think there are a number of variables people are currently mulling over.
1) When will the chips be shipped? (before/after/during B2 and B3)
2) When will the opensource board designs be ready? (before/after/during B2 and B3)
3) Will Avalon have a B4 or are chip sales how they are accomplishing their goals of decentralization
4) Is Avalon working on a new smaller process node chip?

I think there will be a surge of activity once the test chips get out to BKKCoins and Burnin, and the boards are confirmed functional.

The price of this group buy though is hard to beat.

Yes, I was also thinking about group merging during my morning coffee but who could manage it and take whole responsibility of buying, selling etc...