Pages:
Author

Topic: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016] - page 17. (Read 131506 times)

donator
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1051
Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs
so I guess this means they think Dogie is paid by the competition.....

There's no "think" about it - dogie is paid by the competition.

I doubt anyone would have to pay anyone anything to post the simple truth about Black Arrow.

Their customers are willing to do that free of charge, I assure you.....

Absolutely.

Everyone knows that if a reviewer is being paid by a manufacturer, he will never tell the truth about that manufacturer.

Isn't that right dogie?  Wink
I don't think it's fair towards Dogie.
The guide isn't perfect and I have my reservations which some of it I posted.
Specifically, I find it very annoying that BitFury, which I consider bad for the ecosystem is so highly ranked. I think that self mining on industrial mega scale should be punished severely in ranking.

I think that Dogie is doing an honest work. Nobody is perfect and erring is human.

Diaclaimer: we send Dogie review units of all our miners and he work hard - hours - on preparing the guides.

Guy

just remember, this is what the actions are with the companies and actions to the consumers, at the present time. its not a all round thing since the day they started. Basically, dogie has marked BitFury as not doing any mining now, unless there is evidence that they are now, the score stays the same.

now the question i have for you, Spondoolies-Tech, is you have sold pre-orders, and them pre-orders are still in effect? do you still have customers that are waiting on orders? once they are filled out, and you're not selling anymore pre-orders, your score will change.

now, if you are going to claim you do not have anymore people waiting for orders, we would like to see that.

Just a disclaimer, I'm not following your side of the world Spondoolies-Tech, i don't know what you're doing, other then you have hardware that i'd never buy (way outside my price range). so i know nothing other then you do have people still in pre-order status.
You're wrong regarding BitFury. Dogie gave them F in Ethics which means they're operating a farm.
BitFury are operating over 40MW of farms, in Georgia, Iceland and Finland.
They're very proud of this fact, for example: http://vimeo.com/104009961
In Bitcoin mining, if a company operates a farm it competes with it's consumer. IMHO, giving 2 points penalty for BitFury mega industrial scale mining operation is way too law.

As I wrote, we've reached stock on all our products line, which means no more people waiting on pre-orders.
We still have small percentage (about 2%) of customers to refund on the spec change. It will be done this month.

Guy
hero member
Activity: 767
Merit: 500
so I guess this means they think Dogie is paid by the competition.....

There's no "think" about it - dogie is paid by the competition.

I doubt anyone would have to pay anyone anything to post the simple truth about Black Arrow.

Their customers are willing to do that free of charge, I assure you.....

Absolutely.

Everyone knows that if a reviewer is being paid by a manufacturer, he will never tell the truth about that manufacturer.

Isn't that right dogie?  Wink
I don't think it's fair towards Dogie.
The guide isn't perfect and I have my reservations which some of it I posted.
Specifically, I find it very annoying that BitFury, which I consider bad for the ecosystem is so highly ranked. I think that self mining on industrial mega scale should be punished severely in ranking.

I think that Dogie is doing an honest work. Nobody is perfect and erring is human.

Diaclaimer: we send Dogie review units of all our miners and he work hard - hours - on preparing the guides.

Guy

just remember, this is what the actions are with the companies and actions to the consumers, at the present time. its not a all round thing since the day they started. Basically, dogie has marked BitFury as not doing any mining now, unless there is evidence that they are now, the score stays the same.

now the question i have for you, Spondoolies-Tech, is you have sold pre-orders, and them pre-orders are still in effect? do you still have customers that are waiting on orders? once they are filled out, and you're not selling anymore pre-orders, your score will change.

now, if you are going to claim you do not have anymore people waiting for orders, we would like to see that.

Just a disclaimer, I'm not following your side of the world Spondoolies-Tech, i don't know what you're doing, other then you have hardware that i'd never buy (way outside my price range). so i know nothing other then you do have people still in pre-order status.
donator
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1051
Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs
so I guess this means they think Dogie is paid by the competition.....

There's no "think" about it - dogie is paid by the competition.

I doubt anyone would have to pay anyone anything to post the simple truth about Black Arrow.

Their customers are willing to do that free of charge, I assure you.....

Absolutely.

Everyone knows that if a reviewer is being paid by a manufacturer, he will never tell the truth about that manufacturer.

Isn't that right dogie?  Wink
I don't think it's fair towards Dogie.
The guide isn't perfect and I have my reservations which some of it I posted.
Specifically, I find it very annoying that BitFury, which I consider bad for the ecosystem is so highly ranked. I think that self mining on industrial mega scale should be punished severely in ranking.

I think that Dogie is doing an honest work. Nobody is perfect and erring is human.

Diaclaimer: we send Dogie review units of all our miners and he work hard - hours - on preparing the guides.

Guy
legendary
Activity: 3234
Merit: 1220
I've updated dogies guide rating from 5/10 down to 1/10

Why is BA 5/10 ethics even though they are several times more unethical than the current BFL? In fact I'd say they are the least ethical company still selling hardware.

We've been though this so many times... Show me an ethics score modifier that I can actually apply to BA.


It's clear as day that hashcoins is a scam.

Apart from they're delivering Apollo and Ares orders absolutely fine, and there are ZERO reports of the Zeus being 'dodgy'. If you're absolutely 100% sure its a scam, then I'll take you up on a 10 to 0 escrowed btc bet. If their Zeus boards are even remotely close to as they claim, I get 10btc. If not, you get an I told you so. ....Which will happen right, because you're 100% sure?

If you're not, then you shouldn't be flaming me for not marking a company a scam which has ZERO reports from CUSTOMERS about Zeus boards being bad.

Really its easy to have ZERO reports from ZERO customers.
sr. member
Activity: 379
Merit: 250
Welcome to dogietalk.bs
so I guess this means they think Dogie is paid by the competition.....

There's no "think" about it - dogie is paid by the competition.

I doubt anyone would have to pay anyone anything to post the simple truth about Black Arrow.

Their customers are willing to do that free of charge, I assure you.....

Absolutely.

Everyone knows that if a reviewer is being paid by a manufacturer, he will never tell the truth about that manufacturer.

Isn't that right dogie?  Wink
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
so I guess this means they think Dogie is paid by the competition.....

There's no "think" about it - dogie is paid by the competition.

I doubt anyone would have to pay anyone anything to post the simple truth about Black Arrow.

Their customers are willing to do that free of charge, I assure you.....
sr. member
Activity: 379
Merit: 250
Welcome to dogietalk.bs
so I guess this means they think Dogie is paid by the competition.....

There's no "think" about it - dogie is paid by the competition.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
PS, Black Arrow deleted my post in their moderated thread, the only company to do so.

You must've hurt their wittew feewings.

That's what happens when people speak the truth about their crappy company.  Delete posts they don't like, claim people are paid by competitors as the reason for doing so (by their own admission without any proof thereof), blame everyone from the suppliers to the shippers for the failures of what they ship to people, and then wail like they lost their puppy when people that have spent thousands of dollars and were promised plenty to get their business are now left with junk if they're lucky, and flaming, toxic junk if they're not so lucky.

Their claim was that they were deleting posts made by people paid by the competition or just trolling in a couple of cases, so I guess this means they think Dogie is paid by the competition or maybe he's just trolling them with his one post a month.  Another possibility is that they are lying sacks of shit that would rather people not know the truth about their lousy company.

Maybe a rating of "This Company Sucks" for these extra-special companies.  Short, sweet, and to the point.   





The "This Company Sucks" rating: always earned, never given.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 509
So you're flaming me because I won't 'make up' an ethics modifier for the last possible 4 points... why exactly? I already applied the -5, that's as high as it goes [now] without a regulatory body's involvement.

Blackarrow is joint 2nd last, ahead only of a totally bankrupt company, I'm not sure what you expect to happen.

Don't you see how flawed your ethics rating is?

You've given the least ethical companies 5/10 yet BFL (who has made significant improvements) is guaranteed 1/10 because no matter what you will just keep adding new criteria to make it happen.

So there are 0 reports, as you've confirmed, everything else is conjecture and not something you can justify destroying a company's reputation over. And again, they already have a lower score of 55, in the same league with Bitmine, BFL and KNCMiner. I assume even if they had a rating of 20 you'd still be flaming for a lower score in the same regard.

I didn't destroy their reputation, they did it to themselves when they faked cgminer stats, threatened the community with frivolous lawsuits, and refused to ship a zues board to MrTeal for 100 btc.

How can you justify advertising this company when we've seen zero confirmed reports of their new hardware, and only maybe 5 reports of their old unimpressive hardware? (all from noobs)

If i start a company and drop ship a rebranded miner or two will you add it to the list? Or am I required to send you a miner?
hero member
Activity: 572
Merit: 500
"Having the specs" isn't the same as "having the chips and boards and then running out because your suppliers can't keep up with your orders". That's what I meant.

But if you're collecting a bunch of orders and THEN using that money to buy the components, you have a pre-order model.


Pre-order model applies when you did not yet engineered or released the product to the market, and you're looking to do that with customer's money.
If a product is out-of-stock, but released to the market, that's back-log OR made-to-order model.

If you buy a BMW, you don't pre-order .. however they're assembling the car after you ordered it and the sales people get their commissions from your down-payment.
The manufacturer gets his money right after, from the financing institution (if any) .. and you're paying back what you owe to the financing guys.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
Honestly curious, how much bigger do KNC's and Bitfury's mining operations have to get before they get an FF ?

No one gets an FF any more, only Fs. Just left it in the criteria in case people find fragments on archive sites.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
I know the point that you're trying to make, but I'm afraid it's not valid.

If you're not shipping from stock, you're taking preorders, whether you have the specs are not.

This is only fair, because anyone can say "we have the specs" and "we've taped out", even though they don't and haven't (see BFL, BA).
I'd disagree on that to a point. If the spec is known on a chip but a product hasn't been finalized and produced, I would agree that it's still a preorder.
Once you're producing and shipping them, if demand exceeds supply and you run out of stock, sales going forward would be backordered. That's pretty standard in every other tech industry that for an existing product if it's not in stock it's backordered.

The problem with preorders is that they shift the risk of development onto the customer. Any delays in the development cycle (or underperformance in the final system) are usually borne without compensation by the consumer. A backorder is different since the only real risk is meeting production and shipping deadlines.

If SP (or anyone else) runs out of product and advertises it as "not in stock, usually available in 2-4 weeks" that's no longer a preorder, and if they miss the stated timeframe for shipping that should affect the On Time category, not the preorder category.
"Having the specs" isn't the same as "having the chips and boards and then running out because your suppliers can't keep up with your orders". That's what I meant.

But if you're collecting a bunch of orders and THEN using that money to buy the components, you have a pre-order model.

How is company size determined?
Yeah, BA gives the impression that they're three guys working out of the back seat of somebody's car, who occasionally order some contract assembly work. I'd like to hear how they got classified as "Large".


Yep, I'd agree.  They've outsourced assembly, which it seemed they were going to do in-house by touting a huge capacity, which it turned out they apparently didn't have, then they outsourced their rent-a-minion to a 'partner', which is also something that they seemingly made it appear as if they'd be doing themselves by commenting multiple times on the ramp up of the data center, saying at one point it was done, then it wasn't (saying it didn't exist so they couldn't be self mining, after saying it did, which is a whole other can of worms) now they've outsourced it, apparently.  

I don't think they actually fabricated any of the components and they're not even assembling what they've designed, assuming they actually did the design, although I think at one point they had to bring in outside help to solve one or more problems.  They don't seem to be hosting any of the rentaminion contracts that they sold, so, to me, it looks like only a handful of people involved.  

I guess I'm just wondering how the rating is formulated in general and how it is assessed.  Not jumping on Dogie's ass, just curious about what constitutes a given ranking, ie, is 'large' 20 employees, 50 employees, etc.  and how that is determined.
sr. member
Activity: 459
Merit: 250
I know the point that you're trying to make, but I'm afraid it's not valid.

If you're not shipping from stock, you're taking preorders, whether you have the specs are not.

This is only fair, because anyone can say "we have the specs" and "we've taped out", even though they don't and haven't (see BFL, BA).
I'd disagree on that to a point. If the spec is known on a chip but a product hasn't been finalized and produced, I would agree that it's still a preorder.
Once you're producing and shipping them, if demand exceeds supply and you run out of stock, sales going forward would be backordered. That's pretty standard in every other tech industry that for an existing product if it's not in stock it's backordered.

The problem with preorders is that they shift the risk of development onto the customer. Any delays in the development cycle (or underperformance in the final system) are usually borne without compensation by the consumer. A backorder is different since the only real risk is meeting production and shipping deadlines.

If SP (or anyone else) runs out of product and advertises it as "not in stock, usually available in 2-4 weeks" that's no longer a preorder, and if they miss the stated timeframe for shipping that should affect the On Time category, not the preorder category.
"Having the specs" isn't the same as "having the chips and boards and then running out because your suppliers can't keep up with your orders". That's what I meant.

But if you're collecting a bunch of orders and THEN using that money to buy the components, you have a pre-order model.

How is company size determined?
Yeah, BA gives the impression that they're three guys working out of the back seat of somebody's car, who occasionally order some contract assembly work. I'd like to hear how they got classified as "Large".
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 500
How is company size determined?
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 1000
Honestly curious, how much bigger do KNC's and Bitfury's mining operations have to get before they get an FF ?

 Grin

I wonder.
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
Hodl!
Honestly curious, how much bigger do KNC's and Bitfury's mining operations have to get before they get an FF ?
legendary
Activity: 1274
Merit: 1004
I know the point that you're trying to make, but I'm afraid it's not valid.

If you're not shipping from stock, you're taking preorders, whether you have the specs are not.

This is only fair, because anyone can say "we have the specs" and "we've taped out", even though they don't and haven't (see BFL, BA).
I'd disagree on that to a point. If the spec is known on a chip but a product hasn't been finalized and produced, I would agree that it's still a preorder.
Once you're producing and shipping them, if demand exceeds supply and you run out of stock, sales going forward would be backordered. That's pretty standard in every other tech industry that for an existing product if it's not in stock it's backordered.

The problem with preorders is that they shift the risk of development onto the customer. Any delays in the development cycle (or underperformance in the final system) are usually borne without compensation by the consumer. A backorder is different since the only real risk is meeting production and shipping deadlines.

If SP (or anyone else) runs out of product and advertises it as "not in stock, usually available in 2-4 weeks" that's no longer a preorder, and if they miss the stated timeframe for shipping that should affect the On Time category, not the preorder category.
sr. member
Activity: 459
Merit: 250
we took preorders on the 2nd gen

We're in the 2nd gen.
Once the spec is known, it's not preorders anymore.
It's backlog of orders.
I know the point that you're trying to make, but I'm afraid it's not valid.

If you're not shipping from stock, you're taking preorders, whether you have the specs are not.

This is only fair, because anyone can say "we have the specs" and "we've taped out", even though they don't and haven't (see BFL, BA).
donator
Activity: 1414
Merit: 1051
Spondoolies, Beam & DAGlabs
we took preorders on the 2nd gen

We're in the 2nd gen.
Once the spec is known, it's not preorders anymore.
It's backlog of orders.
legendary
Activity: 1666
Merit: 1185
dogiecoin.com
Pages:
Jump to: