Topic: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016] - page 19. (Read 131506 times)
December 17, 2014, 12:50:43 PM
Am I reading this right..no quality issues for AM? Have you looked at the Prisma thread?? The tubes also had problems, and the RMA process is horrible too. To this day I own right around 90 ASIC miners all hashing and AM is the ONLY company that has ever sold me DOA hardware...2 times in a row.
December 17, 2014, 12:34:19 PM
I'd suggest changing on time for technobit from Yes to Mix until the issues with their minion group buy are resolved.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280
Can you explain why its Technobit's fault and not BA's fault in the GB please?
Also, I would suggest changing HashCoins from F to O for ethics until they can adequately address the serious issues that ckolivas and I have raised in their thread.
I don't like the manner in which they were attacked in that thread, ie "its a scam unless you do x y z and I've given you negative trust". There are Zeus customers out there and they haven't complained, so its more than possible what they've claimed is correct. I know you and CK say it isn't in your views, but then were are the complaining customers? There is a good chance that cgminer / the chips are simply behaving in a way not observed yet.
December 17, 2014, 10:30:41 AM
I'd suggest changing on time for technobit from Yes to Mix until the issues with their minion group buy are resolved.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280
Can you explain why its Technobit's fault and not BA's fault in the GB please?
Not to step on MrTeal's toes, but to second his concerns - as far as I can tell, Technobit had chips in hand in July for a product promised to be delivered in August. Their PCB design had flaws, and their controllers had flaws, and it looks a lot like they didn't put the required manpower onto fixing those flaws in a timely manner. Communication has been dismal - almost nonexistent - after the first month or so of "debacle" stage. They've ignored offers for help and pushed new products while leaving existing customers hanging for between four and five months.
December 17, 2014, 10:25:38 AM
I'd suggest changing on time for technobit from Yes to Mix until the issues with their minion group buy are resolved.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280
Can you explain why its Technobit's fault and not BA's fault in the GB please?
Also, I would suggest changing HashCoins from F to O for ethics until they can adequately address the serious issues that ckolivas and I have raised in their thread.
I don't like the manner in which they were attacked in that thread, ie "its a scam unless you do x y z and I've given you negative trust". There are Zeus customers out there and they haven't complained, so its more than possible what they've claimed is correct. I know you and CK say it isn't in your views, but then were are the complaining customers? There is a good chance that cgminer / the chips are simply behaving in a way not observed yet.
December 17, 2014, 10:19:55 AM
I'd suggest changing on time for technobit from Yes to Mix until the issues with their minion group buy are resolved.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280
Also, I would suggest changing HashCoins from F to O for ethics until they can adequately address the serious issues that ckolivas and I have raised in their thread.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=682105.1280
Also, I would suggest changing HashCoins from F to O for ethics until they can adequately address the serious issues that ckolivas and I have raised in their thread.
December 17, 2014, 10:10:16 AM
Changelog 12/17/2014
- Ethics crtieron 'BFL' changed from 'BFL' to Gov to represent behaviour so serious that government / regulatory intervention is required. This does NOT mean that the previous 'BFL' rating - a mark of extreme market behaviours - wasn't proper and correct.
- Communication ratings have been normalised lower than previously.
- Canaan Creative Communication up from 'Okay' to 'Good' (4 to 7).
- SpondooliesTech Preorders up from 'Yes' to 'Mix' (1 to 8]. *Although SpondooliesTech is currently selling out of hand, they have not yet demonstrated that their business model can support this into the next generation. On the announcement of next gen preorders, this rating will return to 'Yes'. On the announcement of next gen in hand / batch sales, this rating will increase to 'Batch' or 'No'.
- Bitmain Hardware Issues up from 'Minor' to 'No' (6 to 10).
- ASICMiner Communication down from 'Okay' to 'Bad' (4 to 1).
- ASICMiner OnTime down from 'Yes' to 'Mix' (10 to 5).
- ASICMiner Hardware Issues? Down from 'No' to 'Minor' (10 to 6). *Prisma suffered 'major' problems, but the company is offering more than fair buyback terms so customers are not out of pocket.
- OneStringMiner Communication down from 'Great' to 'Good' (10 to 7). *Was an error, already had the score of 'Good' but had the text of 'Great'.
- RockMiner Size down from 'Large' to 'Medium' (7 to 4).
- RockMiner Communication down from 'Good' to 'Bad' (7 to 1).
- XBTec Communication down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
- Yiazo Communication down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
- BTCGarden Communication down from 'Good' to 'Okay' (7 to 4).
- HashCoins added.
- BFL Ethics changed from 'BFL' to 'Gov' (1 to 1).
- BFL Delivered Yet? Changed from 'Few' to 'Yes' (5 to 10). *Due to the large numbers that Monarchs are / could be if it wasn't for temporary receivership delivered in.
- BFL Preorders up from 'Yes' to 'Mix' (1 to 8]. *Although BFL is currently selling out of hand, they have not yet demonstrated that their business model can support this into the next generation. On the announcement of next gen preorders, this rating will return to 'Yes'. On the announcement of next gen in hand / batch sales, this rating will increase to 'Batch' or 'No'.
- BFL Communication. *Clarification that the low rating is due to the regression to their own heavily moderated forums and to a lack of official participation in these forums - amongst other things. Additionally, the professionalism of interactions of staff on these forums is below the expected standard.
- KNCMiner Hardware Issues. *Clarification, that the low rating is due to the potentially dangerous use of high power draw far exceeding the PCI-E specification.
- KNCMiner Refund Issues up from 'Yes' to 'Some' (1 to 5).
- BlackArrow Communication down from 'Okay' to 'Bad' (4 to 1).
December 17, 2014, 07:05:57 AM
anything you want a hand with? ir would it be a little harder to pass on your mind-set on things?
What do you mean?
December 17, 2014, 06:58:47 AM
anything you want a hand with? ir would it be a little harder to pass on your mind-set on things?
December 16, 2014, 05:42:39 AM
just a thought, an update to RockMiner? dropping the communication score? rockxie seems to have gone AWOL
Everything is being considered in the next round
thats right, you do this monthly'ish. right'o, i'll let it play out
Meant to be, yeah. Got a bajillion things on the to do list today so will see how it goes.
December 16, 2014, 04:25:18 AM
just a thought, an update to RockMiner? dropping the communication score? rockxie seems to have gone AWOL
Everything is being considered in the next round
thats right, you do this monthly'ish. right'o, i'll let it play out
December 16, 2014, 03:21:31 AM
just a thought, an update to RockMiner? dropping the communication score? rockxie seems to have gone AWOL
Everything is being considered in the next round
December 15, 2014, 06:49:03 PM
just a thought, an update to RockMiner? dropping the communication score? rockxie seems to have gone AWOL
December 02, 2014, 02:32:03 PM
Look at the criteria, what other infraction are you asking me to apply to BA.
Why doesn't BA have 1/10 for ethics and communication like BFL? What is different about BA?
BA does/did actively engage with customers, on here and the other coin forum.
BFL actively engages their customers in the same way. BA only spends slightly less time on this forum aggravating customers compared to BFL. (but just as little time helping/providing support)
Quote
BA have messed up royally on one generation, BFL 2. And only one of those companies is in court ordered receivership currently.
BA's recent failure left customers with $3/gh 1.2 w/gh horrible quality hardware while BFL's failure left their customers with $2/gh 0.8w/gh decent quality hardware.
If BFL hadn't been slammed by the FTC, I would classify BA as the bigger failure.
Clearly if Black Arrow wasn't hiding behind a jurisdiction spanning corporate structure they would have been given the legal battering that usually results from the disgraceful, incompetent and arguably fraudulent service we all feel like we've received. We're not customers. We're victims. We're still trying to get the attention of someone in the right position of power and is suitably motivated to pursue this/these scammers. The history of the people involved is shocking reading.
Absolutely no question about that. if they weren't in China with some convoluted structure using Hong Kong law, they'd be up to their eyeballs in paper.
as far as I'm concerned this convoluted legal structure is an advance on the scam. what most people do not realize is that Hong Kong law is behind other countries in terms of consumer laws, including China's. little doubt in my mind that this is why they chose it, as there are not many places on earth where what they have done is not outright spelled out as flat out illegal. That doesn't mean it is legal in this case, but that the law is a little less spelled out on internet sales and rights of consumers, so it makes it a tougher fight.
not recognizing that fact is ignoring the obvious. if they were in the US or Europe they'd be buried in lawsuits, and they'd be losing their asses. they set this up, IMO, to avoid modern consumer law. that makes them worse than BFL, IMO.
December 02, 2014, 06:30:42 AM
Look at the criteria, what other infraction are you asking me to apply to BA.
Why doesn't BA have 1/10 for ethics and communication like BFL? What is different about BA?
BA does/did actively engage with customers, on here and the other coin forum.
BFL actively engages their customers in the same way. BA only spends slightly less time on this forum aggravating customers compared to BFL. (but just as little time helping/providing support)
Quote
BA have messed up royally on one generation, BFL 2. And only one of those companies is in court ordered receivership currently.
BA's recent failure left customers with $3/gh 1.2 w/gh horrible quality hardware while BFL's failure left their customers with $2/gh 0.8w/gh decent quality hardware.
If BFL hadn't been slammed by the FTC, I would classify BA as the bigger failure.
Clearly if Black Arrow wasn't hiding behind a jurisdiction spanning corporate structure they would have been given the legal battering that usually results from the disgraceful, incompetent and arguably fraudulent service we all feel like we've received. We're not customers. We're victims. We're still trying to get the attention of someone in the right position of power and is suitably motivated to pursue this/these scammers. The history of the people involved is shocking reading.
December 01, 2014, 09:08:44 PM
Look at the criteria, what other infraction are you asking me to apply to BA.
Why doesn't BA have 1/10 for ethics and communication like BFL? What is different about BA?
BA does/did actively engage with customers, on here and the other coin forum.
BFL actively engages their customers in the same way. BA only spends slightly less time on this forum aggravating customers compared to BFL. (but just as little time helping/providing support)
Quote
BA have messed up royally on one generation, BFL 2. And only one of those companies is in court ordered receivership currently.
BA's recent failure left customers with $3/gh 1.2 w/gh horrible quality hardware while BFL's failure left their customers with $2/gh 0.8w/gh decent quality hardware.
If BFL hadn't been slammed by the FTC, I would classify BA as the bigger failure.
December 01, 2014, 08:30:21 PM
Look at the criteria, what other infraction are you asking me to apply to BA.
Why doesn't BA have 1/10 for ethics and communication like BFL? What is different about BA?
BA does/did actively engage with customers, on here and the other coin forum. I still don't believe any company has got anywhere near the level BFL has. BA have messed up royally on one generation, BFL 2. And only one of those companies is in court ordered receivership currently.
December 01, 2014, 07:49:26 PM
Look at the criteria, what other infraction are you asking me to apply to BA.
Why doesn't BA have 1/10 for ethics and communication like BFL? What is different about BA?
December 01, 2014, 07:42:40 PM
I think they should get a 1 for Communication and 1 (preferably 0) for Ethics.
They have fucked up again and again, resulting in repeated delays and miners regularly going up in flames (both power supplies and hash boards). They disappear for weeks on end (they're in disappear mode right now), then come back with some bullshit about how they're working on a fix. They know all their X3 hash boards are defective, but make you ship the defective boards back to them to get replacements - at your own expense, naturally - apparently even going so far as to insist that you pay the customs fees for doing so.
In short, their communications have been nothing but lies and blaming everyone but themselves (including customers) for their problems. Their ethics are abominable - they've broken every promise they ever made: delivery schedule, refunds, price-matching, etc. Most recently their master customer service representative Alexey A. threatened that they could ship in 4 years and still be within their contractual rights.
They've promised a measly 50% extra hashing power for compensation, but say they can't ship any compensation units until they've completed the initial shipping queue. But both shipping queues are on hold because the current X3 design is defective and they've probably run out of parts for the X1. Instead, they say they're going to upgrade that one to the X1.5, with 150 GH, which will probably involve putting two under-spec chips on a board instead of their single-chip design. This will require reingineering, of course, which they will doubtless fuck up as well.
At this point, the only difference between BFL and BA is that BFL has been shut down. If BA's legal status weren't so obfuscated, I'm sure they would have been as well.
They have fucked up again and again, resulting in repeated delays and miners regularly going up in flames (both power supplies and hash boards). They disappear for weeks on end (they're in disappear mode right now), then come back with some bullshit about how they're working on a fix. They know all their X3 hash boards are defective, but make you ship the defective boards back to them to get replacements - at your own expense, naturally - apparently even going so far as to insist that you pay the customs fees for doing so.
In short, their communications have been nothing but lies and blaming everyone but themselves (including customers) for their problems. Their ethics are abominable - they've broken every promise they ever made: delivery schedule, refunds, price-matching, etc. Most recently their master customer service representative Alexey A. threatened that they could ship in 4 years and still be within their contractual rights.
They've promised a measly 50% extra hashing power for compensation, but say they can't ship any compensation units until they've completed the initial shipping queue. But both shipping queues are on hold because the current X3 design is defective and they've probably run out of parts for the X1. Instead, they say they're going to upgrade that one to the X1.5, with 150 GH, which will probably involve putting two under-spec chips on a board instead of their single-chip design. This will require reingineering, of course, which they will doubtless fuck up as well.
At this point, the only difference between BFL and BA is that BFL has been shut down. If BA's legal status weren't so obfuscated, I'm sure they would have been as well.
Agreed. I have no idea how dogie feels 5/10 for ethics and 4/10 for communication is reasonable.
BA makes BFL look like an honest company.
Because that's how the criteria works, if you spent the time to read them. They do communicate, it doesn't matter if its all 'lies'. I can't lower their ethics score lower than -5 without them going bankrupt or approaching BFL's level - which they have not done.
How is BA any different from BFL in those categories? BA is providing shitty/aggravating customer support just like BFL.
As for ethics, how can you possible argue that BA has better ethics than BFL?
BFL offered full USD refunds and honored them. BA offered full refunds and then decided screw it, let's just send customers their unwanted/dangerously faulty hardware anyways.
Look at the criteria, what other infraction are you asking me to apply to BA.
December 01, 2014, 04:24:14 PM
I think they should get a 1 for Communication and 1 (preferably 0) for Ethics.
They have fucked up again and again, resulting in repeated delays and miners regularly going up in flames (both power supplies and hash boards). They disappear for weeks on end (they're in disappear mode right now), then come back with some bullshit about how they're working on a fix. They know all their X3 hash boards are defective, but make you ship the defective boards back to them to get replacements - at your own expense, naturally - apparently even going so far as to insist that you pay the customs fees for doing so.
In short, their communications have been nothing but lies and blaming everyone but themselves (including customers) for their problems. Their ethics are abominable - they've broken every promise they ever made: delivery schedule, refunds, price-matching, etc. Most recently their master customer service representative Alexey A. threatened that they could ship in 4 years and still be within their contractual rights.
They've promised a measly 50% extra hashing power for compensation, but say they can't ship any compensation units until they've completed the initial shipping queue. But both shipping queues are on hold because the current X3 design is defective and they've probably run out of parts for the X1. Instead, they say they're going to upgrade that one to the X1.5, with 150 GH, which will probably involve putting two under-spec chips on a board instead of their single-chip design. This will require reingineering, of course, which they will doubtless fuck up as well.
At this point, the only difference between BFL and BA is that BFL has been shut down. If BA's legal status weren't so obfuscated, I'm sure they would have been as well.
They have fucked up again and again, resulting in repeated delays and miners regularly going up in flames (both power supplies and hash boards). They disappear for weeks on end (they're in disappear mode right now), then come back with some bullshit about how they're working on a fix. They know all their X3 hash boards are defective, but make you ship the defective boards back to them to get replacements - at your own expense, naturally - apparently even going so far as to insist that you pay the customs fees for doing so.
In short, their communications have been nothing but lies and blaming everyone but themselves (including customers) for their problems. Their ethics are abominable - they've broken every promise they ever made: delivery schedule, refunds, price-matching, etc. Most recently their master customer service representative Alexey A. threatened that they could ship in 4 years and still be within their contractual rights.
They've promised a measly 50% extra hashing power for compensation, but say they can't ship any compensation units until they've completed the initial shipping queue. But both shipping queues are on hold because the current X3 design is defective and they've probably run out of parts for the X1. Instead, they say they're going to upgrade that one to the X1.5, with 150 GH, which will probably involve putting two under-spec chips on a board instead of their single-chip design. This will require reingineering, of course, which they will doubtless fuck up as well.
At this point, the only difference between BFL and BA is that BFL has been shut down. If BA's legal status weren't so obfuscated, I'm sure they would have been as well.
Agreed. I have no idea how dogie feels 5/10 for ethics and 4/10 for communication is reasonable.
BA makes BFL look like an honest company.
Because that's how the criteria works, if you spent the time to read them. They do communicate, it doesn't matter if its all 'lies'. I can't lower their ethics score lower than -5 without them going bankrupt or approaching BFL's level - which they have not done.
How is BA any different from BFL in those categories? BA is providing shitty/aggravating customer support just like BFL.
As for ethics, how can you possible argue that BA has better ethics than BFL?
BFL offered full USD refunds and honored them. BA offered full refunds and then decided screw it, let's just send customers their unwanted/dangerously faulty hardware anyways.
December 01, 2014, 03:19:41 PM
I think they should get a 1 for Communication and 1 (preferably 0) for Ethics.
They have fucked up again and again, resulting in repeated delays and miners regularly going up in flames (both power supplies and hash boards). They disappear for weeks on end (they're in disappear mode right now), then come back with some bullshit about how they're working on a fix. They know all their X3 hash boards are defective, but make you ship the defective boards back to them to get replacements - at your own expense, naturally - apparently even going so far as to insist that you pay the customs fees for doing so.
In short, their communications have been nothing but lies and blaming everyone but themselves (including customers) for their problems. Their ethics are abominable - they've broken every promise they ever made: delivery schedule, refunds, price-matching, etc. Most recently their master customer service representative Alexey A. threatened that they could ship in 4 years and still be within their contractual rights.
They've promised a measly 50% extra hashing power for compensation, but say they can't ship any compensation units until they've completed the initial shipping queue. But both shipping queues are on hold because the current X3 design is defective and they've probably run out of parts for the X1. Instead, they say they're going to upgrade that one to the X1.5, with 150 GH, which will probably involve putting two under-spec chips on a board instead of their single-chip design. This will require reingineering, of course, which they will doubtless fuck up as well.
At this point, the only difference between BFL and BA is that BFL has been shut down. If BA's legal status weren't so obfuscated, I'm sure they would have been as well.
They have fucked up again and again, resulting in repeated delays and miners regularly going up in flames (both power supplies and hash boards). They disappear for weeks on end (they're in disappear mode right now), then come back with some bullshit about how they're working on a fix. They know all their X3 hash boards are defective, but make you ship the defective boards back to them to get replacements - at your own expense, naturally - apparently even going so far as to insist that you pay the customs fees for doing so.
In short, their communications have been nothing but lies and blaming everyone but themselves (including customers) for their problems. Their ethics are abominable - they've broken every promise they ever made: delivery schedule, refunds, price-matching, etc. Most recently their master customer service representative Alexey A. threatened that they could ship in 4 years and still be within their contractual rights.
They've promised a measly 50% extra hashing power for compensation, but say they can't ship any compensation units until they've completed the initial shipping queue. But both shipping queues are on hold because the current X3 design is defective and they've probably run out of parts for the X1. Instead, they say they're going to upgrade that one to the X1.5, with 150 GH, which will probably involve putting two under-spec chips on a board instead of their single-chip design. This will require reingineering, of course, which they will doubtless fuck up as well.
At this point, the only difference between BFL and BA is that BFL has been shut down. If BA's legal status weren't so obfuscated, I'm sure they would have been as well.
Agreed. I have no idea how dogie feels 5/10 for ethics and 4/10 for communication is reasonable.
BA makes BFL look like an honest company.
Because that's how the criteria works, if you spent the time to read them. They do communicate, it doesn't matter if its all 'lies'. I can't lower their ethics score lower than -5 without them going bankrupt or approaching BFL's level - which they have not done.
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