[Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016] - page 23.

RoadStress

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Quote from: Blazed on October 20, 2014, 08:03:45 PM

I agree with dogie on this.. AM was not really a pre order since they had chips in hand. AM just needed new boards and they had a holiday. SP is defently a pre order company...

Now scamalon being rated higher than AM is just silly though.

Please re-read my post. SP-Tech has chips in hand since August. What's the difference between AM and SP-Tech if they both have chips in hand and the product are already developed?

Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 08:04:38 PM

So roadstress, do you think Spondooliestech is actually going to meet their estimated specs this time?

Yes. Do you think that you will see some AM dividends this year?

DebitMe

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Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 08:15:30 PM

Quote from: DebitMe on October 20, 2014, 08:13:12 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 08:10:19 PM

Quote from: DebitMe on October 20, 2014, 08:06:51 PM

Could you explain what BFL'ing is as far as ethics? I cannot find anything where BFL has been worse than BA and yet they still have an ethics rating. Just some clarification here would be helpful.

I agree blackarrow is about as bad as it gets when it comes to ethics.

They have also announced that they are broke (aka bankrupt) and have had a large amount of coins stolen (apparently their security isn't great as they also apparently had their email list stolen). So that should also fit in somewhere.

Source?

It was a post on ecointalk, let me see if I can find where someone copied it about being broke.

About having coins stolen, they made a thread here talking about it and some changes they would like to see to the protocol. Should be easy enough to find.

jimmothy

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Quote from: DebitMe on October 20, 2014, 08:13:12 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 08:10:19 PM

Quote from: DebitMe on October 20, 2014, 08:06:51 PM

Could you explain what BFL'ing is as far as ethics? I cannot find anything where BFL has been worse than BA and yet they still have an ethics rating. Just some clarification here would be helpful.

I agree blackarrow is about as bad as it gets when it comes to ethics.

They have also announced that they are broke (aka bankrupt) and have had a large amount of coins stolen (apparently their security isn't great as they also apparently had their email list stolen). So that should also fit in somewhere.

Source?

DebitMe

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Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 08:10:19 PM

Quote from: DebitMe on October 20, 2014, 08:06:51 PM

Could you explain what BFL'ing is as far as ethics? I cannot find anything where BFL has been worse than BA and yet they still have an ethics rating. Just some clarification here would be helpful.

I agree blackarrow is about as bad as it gets when it comes to ethics.

They have also announced that they are broke (aka bankrupt) and have had a large amount of coins stolen (apparently their security isn't great as they also apparently had their email list stolen). So that should also fit in somewhere.

jimmothy

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Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: DebitMe on October 20, 2014, 08:06:51 PM

Could you explain what BFL'ing is as far as ethics? I cannot find anything where BFL has been worse than BA and yet they still have an ethics rating. Just some clarification here would be helpful.

I agree blackarrow is about as bad as it gets when it comes to ethics.

DebitMe

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Activity: 2800

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Get Paid Crypto To Walk or Drive

Could you explain what BFL'ing is as far as ethics? I cannot find anything where BFL has been worse than BA and yet they still have an ethics rating. Just some clarification here would be helpful.

jimmothy

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So roadstress, do you think Spondooliestech is actually going to meet their estimated specs this time?

Blazed

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I agree with dogie on this.. AM was not really a pre order since they had chips in hand. AM just needed new boards and they had a holiday. SP is defently a pre order company...

Now scamalon being rated higher than AM is just silly though.

RoadStress

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Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 07:25:20 PM

AM's preorders were batch products with a longer leadtime than usual due to a 9 day public holiday being in the middle. The Prismas already existed and were just being made in sufficient quantities. The SPTech preorders were based on chips which didn't exist yet to go into miners which hadn't been produced yet. As you saw, this meant that the final product came back at 75% hash rate and 30% higher power consumption. AND, the SPTech preorders were over a 3-4 month period, not 4 weeks.

You still don't get it. Or don't want to. What you said about SP-Tech preorders was available until August when the first units of SP30s shipped. Afterwards the product existed and was just being made in sufficient quantities. Since August there were no pre-orders. Only batch products with a lead time. We are past half October. That's over 2 months since the SP30s exist on the market. Am I wrong? Even now you can order the SP35 Novermber Batch 1. Where is the pre-order?

dogie

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Quote from: RoadStress on October 20, 2014, 07:10:05 PM

Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 06:05:27 PM

Quote from: RoadStress on October 20, 2014, 05:34:58 PM

Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 05:00:58 PM

ASICMiner Preorders down from 'Yes' to 'Batch' (20 to 16) - Not considered full preorders as the Prisma was fully designed and just waiting to be produced in sufficient quantities.

Wait a minute. SP-Tech always had batches and they were "Mixed" and now they are "Yes" on the pre-order category. Care to explain? If you are unaware of the batches they are "first half of the month" and "second half of the month". I understand that there was a pre-order for SP30, but the SP30 was launched in August. Since then only batches were available to order.

They've been preorders for the vast majority of their sales from day 1. There's no way to get around the fact that all the risk is put on the customer, which can backfire [as with SP30s]. Even with compensation, customers got a very different product than they had ordered 3-4 months before. [This rating hasn't changed for months and months, and was an error when it was listed as batch.]

Ok, but please explain me the difference from SP-Tech pre-orders and AM's pre-orders. The way I see it is that since August the SP30 is a developed product just waiting to be produced in sufficient quantities. If I am wrong please enlighten me.

AM's preorders were batch products with a longer leadtime than usual due to a 9 day public holiday being in the middle. The Prismas already existed and were just being made in sufficient quantities. The SPTech preorders were based on chips which didn't exist yet to go into miners which hadn't been produced yet. As you saw, this meant that the final product came back at 75% hash rate and 30% higher power consumption. AND, the SPTech preorders were over a 3-4 month period, not 4 weeks.

jimmothy

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Quote from: RoadStress on October 20, 2014, 07:10:05 PM

Ok, but please explain me the difference from SP-Tech pre-orders and AM's pre-orders. The way I see it is that since August the SP30 is a developed product just waiting to be produced in sufficient quantities. If I am wrong please enlighten me.

Are purposely being obtuse or do you actually not see the difference?

Spondoolies is not selling tested hardware. They are selling hardware with estimated specs.

RoadStress

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Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 06:05:27 PM

Quote from: RoadStress on October 20, 2014, 05:34:58 PM

Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 05:00:58 PM

ASICMiner Preorders down from 'Yes' to 'Batch' (20 to 16) - Not considered full preorders as the Prisma was fully designed and just waiting to be produced in sufficient quantities.

Wait a minute. SP-Tech always had batches and they were "Mixed" and now they are "Yes" on the pre-order category. Care to explain? If you are unaware of the batches they are "first half of the month" and "second half of the month". I understand that there was a pre-order for SP30, but the SP30 was launched in August. Since then only batches were available to order.

They've been preorders for the vast majority of their sales from day 1. There's no way to get around the fact that all the risk is put on the customer, which can backfire [as with SP30s]. Even with compensation, customers got a very different product than they had ordered 3-4 months before. [This rating hasn't changed for months and months, and was an error when it was listed as batch.]

Ok, but please explain me the difference from SP-Tech pre-orders and AM's pre-orders. The way I see it is that since August the SP30 is a developed product just waiting to be produced in sufficient quantities. If I am wrong please enlighten me.

dogie

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Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 06:29:21 PM

Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 06:08:58 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 05:43:41 PM

Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 05:18:55 PM

Quote from: PatMan on October 20, 2014, 05:15:49 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 05:12:57 PM

Why is BTCGarden 5/10 for ethics?

Cos he works for Bitmain?........

What would that have anything to do with BTCGarden, and it would be pretty cool if my contract extended back in time by 3 months.

Anyway... BTCGarden have received an O infraction because they do have a moderate DOA rate but won't address the issue. In fact, they posted data which suggested they have an extremely low rate, which just wasn't matching up with the deliveries.

That sounds like total BS. How could you possibly know if their data is accurate or not?

Can you show me posts where their customers are complaining about no returns or any other issues?

In my experience (and everyone elses as far as I can tell) support has been extremely quick and generous. I had a broken fan and rPi which they gave me a partial refund of the full amount it cost me to purchase replacements locally.

They've taken the graph down now, but they claimed there was an insanely low number of DOA units. I had one dead blade, the other major reviewer had BOTH blades dead. Take a look at my thread - the same problem which comes up again and again is the blade the Pi is plugged into is DOA so it doesn't see any of them.

Come at it from another angle... why would one post a graph of DOA units % when you've only been selling for about a week if there were no problems with DOA numbers?

I can see your point I just don't think it's worth 5/10 for ethics.

Yes there are DOA issues like any other manufacturer and they might have even lied about their DOA % but customers seem happy.

How can they have a high DOA rate, bad customer support, and no negative trust ratings or scam accusations?

I think you might be the only one who has bought from BTCGarden and think they are unethical.

They can have a high DOA rate as long as they fix them [they didn't mine, or the other reviewers and ignored the emails], which is why they've got 10/10 for hardware problems. But they'll still pick up the infraction for covering it up / hiding it. If you've got problems, own them rather than actively trying to hide them.

Its listed an 'other' infraction'. Its not directly saying they're unethical, rather that things could be better.

jimmothy

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Activity: 770

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Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 06:08:58 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 05:43:41 PM

Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 05:18:55 PM

Quote from: PatMan on October 20, 2014, 05:15:49 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 05:12:57 PM

Why is BTCGarden 5/10 for ethics?

Cos he works for Bitmain?........

What would that have anything to do with BTCGarden, and it would be pretty cool if my contract extended back in time by 3 months.

Anyway... BTCGarden have received an O infraction because they do have a moderate DOA rate but won't address the issue. In fact, they posted data which suggested they have an extremely low rate, which just wasn't matching up with the deliveries.

That sounds like total BS. How could you possibly know if their data is accurate or not?

Can you show me posts where their customers are complaining about no returns or any other issues?

In my experience (and everyone elses as far as I can tell) support has been extremely quick and generous. I had a broken fan and rPi which they gave me a partial refund of the full amount it cost me to purchase replacements locally.

They've taken the graph down now, but they claimed there was an insanely low number of DOA units. I had one dead blade, the other major reviewer had BOTH blades dead. Take a look at my thread - the same problem which comes up again and again is the blade the Pi is plugged into is DOA so it doesn't see any of them.

Come at it from another angle... why would one post a graph of DOA units % when you've only been selling for about a week if there were no problems with DOA numbers?

I can see your point I just don't think it's worth 5/10 for ethics.

Yes there are DOA issues like any other manufacturer and they might have even lied about their DOA % but customers seem happy.

How can they have a high DOA rate, bad customer support, and no negative trust ratings or scam accusations?

I think you might be the only one who has bought from BTCGarden and think they are unethical.

dogie

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Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 05:43:41 PM

Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 05:18:55 PM

Quote from: PatMan on October 20, 2014, 05:15:49 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 05:12:57 PM

Why is BTCGarden 5/10 for ethics?

Cos he works for Bitmain?........

What would that have anything to do with BTCGarden, and it would be pretty cool if my contract extended back in time by 3 months.

Anyway... BTCGarden have received an O infraction because they do have a moderate DOA rate but won't address the issue. In fact, they posted data which suggested they have an extremely low rate, which just wasn't matching up with the deliveries.

That sounds like total BS. How could you possibly know if their data is accurate or not?

Can you show me posts where their customers are complaining about no returns or any other issues?

In my experience (and everyone elses as far as I can tell) support has been extremely quick and generous. I had a broken fan and rPi which they gave me a partial refund of the full amount it cost me to purchase replacements locally.

They've taken the graph down now, but they claimed there was an insanely low number of DOA units. I had one dead blade, the other major reviewer had BOTH blades dead. Take a look at my thread - the same problem which comes up again and again is the blade the Pi is plugged into is DOA so it doesn't see any of them.

Come at it from another angle... why would one post a graph of DOA units % when you've only been selling for about a week if there were no problems with DOA numbers?

dogie

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dogiecoin.com

Quote from: RoadStress on October 20, 2014, 05:34:58 PM

Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 05:00:58 PM

ASICMiner Preorders down from 'Yes' to 'Batch' (20 to 16) - Not considered full preorders as the Prisma was fully designed and just waiting to be produced in sufficient quantities.

Wait a minute. SP-Tech always had batches and they were "Mixed" and now they are "Yes" on the pre-order category. Care to explain? If you are unaware of the batches they are "first half of the month" and "second half of the month". I understand that there was a pre-order for SP30, but the SP30 was launched in August. Since then only batches were available to order.

They've been preorders for the vast majority of their sales from day 1. There's no way to get around the fact that all the risk is put on the customer, which can backfire [as with SP30s]. Even with compensation, customers got a very different product than they had ordered 3-4 months before. [This rating hasn't changed for months and months, and was an error when it was listed as batch.]

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: RoadStress on October 20, 2014, 05:34:58 PM

Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 05:00:58 PM

ASICMiner Preorders down from 'Yes' to 'Batch' (20 to 16) - Not considered full preorders as the Prisma was fully designed and just waiting to be produced in sufficient quantities.

Wait a minute. SP-Tech always had batches and they were "Mixed" and now they are "Yes" on the pre-order category. Care to explain? If you are unaware of the batches they are "first half of the month" and "second half of the month". I understand that there was a pre-order for SP30, but the SP30 was launched in August. Since then only batches were available to order.

If the hardware has been built, tested, and is ready to be produced, it's BTO.

If the hardware yet to be tested and the specs are estimations, it's a preorder.

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 05:18:55 PM

Quote from: PatMan on October 20, 2014, 05:15:49 PM

Quote from: jimmothy on October 20, 2014, 05:12:57 PM

Why is BTCGarden 5/10 for ethics?

Cos he works for Bitmain?........

What would that have anything to do with BTCGarden, and it would be pretty cool if my contract extended back in time by 3 months.

Anyway... BTCGarden have received an O infraction because they do have a moderate DOA rate but won't address the issue. In fact, they posted data which suggested they have an extremely low rate, which just wasn't matching up with the deliveries.

That sounds like total BS. How could you possibly know if their data is accurate or not?

Can you show me posts where their customers are complaining about no returns or any other issues?

In my experience (and everyone elses as far as I can tell) support has been extremely quick and generous. I had a broken fan and rPi which they gave me a partial refund of the full amount it cost me to purchase replacements locally.

philipma1957

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'The right to privacy matters'

Quote from: RoadStress on October 20, 2014, 05:34:58 PM

Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 05:00:58 PM

ASICMiner Preorders down from 'Yes' to 'Batch' (20 to 16) - Not considered full preorders as the Prisma was fully designed and just waiting to be produced in sufficient quantities.

Wait a minute. SP-Tech always had batches and they were "Mixed" and now they are "Yes" on the pre-order category. Care to explain? If you are unaware of the batches they are "first half of the month" and "second half of the month". I understand that there was a pre-order for SP30, but the SP30 was launched in August. Since then only batches were available to order.

your sp10's were not preorders. the rest are.

To be fair just about every one is selling preorders. the u3's are preorders .

RoadStress

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Quote from: dogie on October 20, 2014, 05:00:58 PM

ASICMiner Preorders down from 'Yes' to 'Batch' (20 to 16) - Not considered full preorders as the Prisma was fully designed and just waiting to be produced in sufficient quantities.

Wait a minute. SP-Tech always had batches and they were "Mixed" and now they are "Yes" on the pre-order category. Care to explain? If you are unaware of the batches they are "first half of the month" and "second half of the month". I understand that there was a pre-order for SP30, but the SP30 was launched in August. Since then only batches were available to order.

Topic: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016] - page 23. (Read 131512 times)