[Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016] - page 31.

Lassi

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Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Burn the wings off those bastards.

The chat clearly shows he knew it was deceptive and helped to manage the message so that the real timeline of tape out and shipping was not given to the public when he knew that they hadn't even taped out even by November 26th 2013 according to the chat. All the while in the forums he was busy managing the perception of the Monarch as imminent or without any problems with the "initial" timeline.

Quote

[11/12/2013 1:00:53 PM] Josh Zerlan: Well, I'm all for June actually
[11/12/2013 1:01:00 PM] Josh Zerlan: Then if we deliver in March, we look good.
[11/12/2013 1:01:19 PM] Josh Zerlan: Instead of giving them false promises for
November when we didn't even tape out until November.
[11/12/2013 1:01:57 PM] Sonny: Clearly when we laid out that timeline, we fully
expected tapeout sooner than November.
[11/12/2013 1:02:11 PM] Sonny: You, me - chronicle tech etc.
[11/12/2013 1:02:14 PM] Josh Zerlan: No, I knew we would not be taping out until
late October at the earliest.

Quote

[11/12/2013 1:11:26 PM] Nasser Ghoseiri: We can announce that we've taped out on
Friday
[11/12/2013 1:11:35 PM] Nasser Ghoseiri: and let everyone know how it goes
[11/12/2013 1:11:55 PM] Josh Zerlan: No, I don't thin kwe should mention when we
taped out. We were suppose to tape out in September. Telling them we taped out
last week is suicide.

Quote

[11/12/2013 1:19:12 PM] Nasser Ghoseiri: we have to play the best we can with it
[11/12/2013 1:19:22 PM] Josh Zerlan: Indeed, so lets play it properly this time and
tell peole a realistic timeline.

Quote

[11/12/2013 2:47:27 PM] Josh Zerlan: You can't base your PR around that fact.
[11/12/2013 2:47:31 PM] Josh Zerlan: PR is perception, not facts.

Quote

[11/12/2013 2:47:58 PM] Josh Zerlan: The perception is we were to deliver in
November or at the latest December.

Quote

[11/26/2013 11:15:19 AM] Josh Zerlan: We still haven't even taped out 28nm, though.
We still have 16 and then by the time that's out, we're looking at 12 or 10.

What did we do last time? We lied about the timeline.

What should we do this time? Manage the message so that customers are retained and we do not lose even more market share. After all PR is perception not FACTS.

Here are some listed falsehoods that Inaba posted regarding shipping / production of the Monarch in these forums. Check that against the dates in the above chats. Lies and falsehoods abound.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.9031471

jimmothy

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 509

Quote from: Inaba on September 30, 2014, 07:04:12 PM

It was true at the time the advertisement was made, which was the point of the accusations made which I was responding to. Don't try to play semantic games to make your false statements appear to be true (oddly enough Dogie appears to be the rational one in this case... Mind blown).

Dick Trickle there was asking about false advertising and I was responding. We did absolutely believe we would tape out in August when that ad copy was created.

I don't think you understand what your being sued for or what false advertising entails.

Just because the statement may have been true for a few days doesn't mean you can advertise it for months after it becoming false.

You guys edited the monarch page several times in the past months yet decided to conveniently leave up all the now false advertisements in order to bring in more customers.

FTC is will soon prove that your little games do not fly.

To refresh your memory, here's what you're being sued for:

Quote

Deceptive Acts or Practices

An act or practice is deceptive where
• A representation, omission, or practice misleads
or is likely to mislead the consumer;

"accidentally" leaving up "tapeout in August" long after August is indeed likely to mislead the customer don't you think?

Or what about accidentally leaving up the totally fair comparison that showed the competition at $17/gh and 2.5w/gh?

dogie

legendary

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dogiecoin.com

Quote from: Inaba on September 30, 2014, 07:04:12 PM

It was true at the time the advertisement was made, which was the point of the accusations made which I was responding to. Don't try to play semantic games to make your false statements appear to be true (oddly enough Dogie appears to be the rational one in this case... Mind blown).

Dick Trickle there was asking about false advertising and I was responding. We did absolutely believe we would tape out in August when that ad copy was created.

That's the problem with the cut and chopped version of the chat logs, people are going to move time around to fit their version of the story. You should post the full chat log as its going to come out / be requested anyway.

Inaba

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1000

It was true at the time the advertisement was made, which was the point of the accusations made which I was responding to. Don't try to play semantic games to make your false statements appear to be true (oddly enough Dogie appears to be the rational one in this case... Mind blown).

Dick Trickle there was asking about false advertising and I was responding. We did absolutely believe we would tape out in August when that ad copy was created.

dogie

legendary

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Quote from: supbits on September 30, 2014, 01:20:00 PM

Quote from: dogie on September 30, 2014, 12:48:20 PM

Quote from: ElGrandJefe on September 30, 2014, 12:05:24 PM

Quote from: Inaba on September 16, 2014, 08:39:01 AM

Quote

15. Tape out August 2013

True.

Quote

[11/6/2013 11:19:29 AM] Josh Zerlan: Honestly, if we haven't even taped out at this
point, I dont' see us shipping a product until the very end of January at the
earliest, more like middle of February.

Source: http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.7.pdf

Did someone say "hypocricy [sic] and duplicity"?

To be fair you're quoting something back in time which doesn't really make sense. What you should be quoting is the resultant shipping dates he came up with after that November conversation.

Sure it makes sense. It only bolsters the evidence - he claimed a few weeks ago, in this thread, that they taped out in August - while the Skype logs show that he knew otherwise all the way back in November.

Okay, nevermind. I didn't know when the very original quote was from.

supbits

newbie

Activity: 11

Merit: 0

Quote from: dogie on September 30, 2014, 12:48:20 PM

Quote from: ElGrandJefe on September 30, 2014, 12:05:24 PM

Quote from: Inaba on September 16, 2014, 08:39:01 AM

Quote

15. Tape out August 2013

True.

Quote

[11/6/2013 11:19:29 AM] Josh Zerlan: Honestly, if we haven't even taped out at this
point, I dont' see us shipping a product until the very end of January at the
earliest, more like middle of February.

Source: http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.7.pdf

Did someone say "hypocricy [sic] and duplicity"?

To be fair you're quoting something back in time which doesn't really make sense. What you should be quoting is the resultant shipping dates he came up with after that November conversation.

Sure it makes sense. It only bolsters the evidence - he claimed a few weeks ago, in this thread, that they taped out in August - while the Skype logs show that he knew otherwise all the way back in November.

ElGrandJefe

sr. member

Activity: 459

Merit: 250

Josh claimed - in this thread - that the tapeout took place in August 2013. The Skype log from November 6, 2013 seems to contradict that, doesn't it?

Quote

[11/6/2013 11:19:29 AM] Josh Zerlan: Honestly, if we haven't even taped out at this
point, I dont' see us shipping a product until the very end of January at the
earliest, more like middle of February.

If you check the Wayback Machine 6 weeks later, they were still claiming that August 2013 tapeout:
https://web.archive.org/web/20131219192442/http://www.butterflylabs.com/monarch/

So the shipping dates were not changed at all any time close to that conversation.

Or am I missing something?

dogie

legendary

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Quote from: ElGrandJefe on September 30, 2014, 12:05:24 PM

Quote from: Inaba on September 16, 2014, 08:39:01 AM

Quote

15. Tape out August 2013

True.

Quote

[11/6/2013 11:19:29 AM] Josh Zerlan: Honestly, if we haven't even taped out at this
point, I dont' see us shipping a product until the very end of January at the
earliest, more like middle of February.

Source: http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.7.pdf

Did someone say "hypocricy [sic] and duplicity"?

To be fair you're quoting something back in time which doesn't really make sense. What you should be quoting is the resultant shipping dates he came up with after that November conversation.

ElGrandJefe

sr. member

Activity: 459

Merit: 250

Quote from: Inaba on September 16, 2014, 08:39:01 AM

Quote

15. Tape out August 2013

True.

Quote

[11/6/2013 11:19:29 AM] Josh Zerlan: Honestly, if we haven't even taped out at this
point, I dont' see us shipping a product until the very end of January at the
earliest, more like middle of February.

Source: http://ia902308.us.archive.org/32/items/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531/gov.uscourts.mowd.117531.42.7.pdf

Did someone say "hypocricy [sic] and duplicity"?

supbits

newbie

Activity: 11

Merit: 0

Quote from: Inaba on September 16, 2014, 08:39:01 AM

Quote

15. Tape out August 2013

True.

I just wanted to share this with you all, from the FTC's Attachment X:

https://i.imgur.com/ClB3Fqz.png

It's a shame their ethics rating can't drop any lower.

Pentax

hero member

Activity: 700

Merit: 500

new category: FTC'd Cheesy

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

Quote from: dogie on September 25, 2014, 03:18:09 AM

Quote from: Searing on September 25, 2014, 12:43:07 AM

Hey Doggie...what should the rating be on a company that has been taken over by the FTC in receivership or whatever it is called
and now is being investigated by IRS?..and of course likely the obligatory mail fraud.....wire money fraud etc etc to come?

me thinks the BFL score should be a going way way down

or course Josh will then get on and say you are 'unfair' but that goes w/o saying actually

(BFL first neg rating in doggies thread) heh

I'll just leave it for now, again I can't just set companies as 1! When hashfast went bankrupt they were frozen, as is vmc so only fair to do the same for now.

well it was a unique situation (or I hope so ..) so had to ask......

well life could be worse we could be investors in BFL from back in the day .....not looking too good now

dogie

legendary

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Merit: 1185

dogiecoin.com

Quote from: Searing on September 25, 2014, 12:43:07 AM

Hey Doggie...what should the rating be on a company that has been taken over by the FTC in receivership or whatever it is called
and now is being investigated by IRS?..and of course likely the obligatory mail fraud.....wire money fraud etc etc to come?

me thinks the BFL score should be a going way way down

or course Josh will then get on and say you are 'unfair' but that goes w/o saying actually

(BFL first neg rating in doggies thread) heh

I'll just leave it for now, again I can't just set companies as 1! When hashfast went bankrupt they were frozen, as is vmc so only fair to do the same for now.

hdbuck

legendary

Activity: 1260

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Searing on September 25, 2014, 12:43:07 AM

...
(BFL first neg rating in doggies thread) heh

neg! neg! neg! neg! neg! Cheesy

Searing

copper member

Activity: 2898

Merit: 1465

Clueless!

Hey Doggie...what should the rating be on a company that has been taken over by the FTC in receivership or whatever it is called
and now is being investigated by IRS?..and of course likely the obligatory mail fraud.....wire money fraud etc etc to come?

me thinks the BFL score should be a going way way down

or course Josh will then get on and say you are 'unfair' but that goes w/o saying actually

(BFL first neg rating in doggies thread) heh

xstr8guy

hero member

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Merit: 1004