Topic: [Guide] Dogie's Comprehensive Manufacturer Trustworthiness Guide [1st Feb 2016] - page 37. (Read 131506 times)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)


http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/21ev00/great_but_pricey_cloud_mining_service_you_can/cgctgq8


http://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMining/comments/21ev00/great_but_pricey_cloud_mining_service_you_can/cgcwhdt


In the latter bold text, at the time it was penned, it was left to the reading's imagination as to why you had no burning desire to mine nor purchase a cloud mining contract.

I can easily site at least two instances where your nitrowolf account on Reddit was asked if you belonged to camp BFL, with both questions ignored. Until I uncovered who nitrowolf was, nobody had a clue it was you, Josh Zerlan, while you all the while defended BFL in every post you penned pertaining to said.

I cut out the rest of our diatribe because it's pointless to argue with you.  You won't admit, even though everyone else here agrees, that your guide is biased, if for no other reason than you made a category... I mean a "tier" named BFL. There's nothing biased about that, oh no.

That said, you absolutely, positively did gain traction on your guide by bashing BFL.  If you had been honest and impartial in your guide, BFL would be rated higher and you'd have all the trolls bitching and moaning and whining and making you out to be the devil and your guide would have gone exactly nowhere. You banked on the hate train and gained your dubious reputation directly off the back of BFL. So yes, absolutely you gained traffic by artifically lowering BFLs rating.  That is painfully obvious.  It's not about making money (or lack thereof) it's about gaining traffic and mindshare.  You know this, you're just being hyperbolic... again.


If someone can pay others to game the system, then the system DOESN'T WORK.  Dude, are you this oblivious to your contradictions in real life or do you just not read what you write after you write it?  I can only imagine what actually talking to you face to face is like, it must be an absolutely mindblowing experience.

Its impartial because I have no personal qualms with any company. You think I do, but that's your opinion, it does not make it a fact. The guide is my personal interpretation because I am not a computer and as such it is not possible for me to pull numbers from the cloud autonomously. Therefore, this guide is my impartial interpretation.

There is no category named BFL. There is a result tier named BFL, which BFL was promoted out of. And as explained earlier it is not a rating criteria but the RESULT of the rating. Such that an unhygienic takeaway is labelled as F, not any 'F's are unhygienic by virtue of being 'F's. Its also a coloquial term for a less than perfect transaction.

You're trying to misquote and twist what I'm saying, again again. I've shorted what would be many, many, many ethical infractions which would put you far into negative points, into three letters because that's all that fits at this resolution and with what I can do with BBCODE formatting and 33,000 characters per post.

I gain nothing, NOTHING by your buyers being unhappy and I would love nothing more than for monarch to have come out in December and everyone to have been happy. You'd have made (more) money, buyers would have ROI'ed nicely, you wouldn't have had to do the PCB revisions, blah blah blah. Could have probably taped out the next gen and been selling in hand by now or something. And I'd have been happy for you, because again it does not benefit me what so ever for your customers to be unhappy.

Why would it, how could it possibly by so? Are you suggesting I somehow gain traffic by artificially lowering BFL's rating in this thread? Are you suggesting that for the 8 months this resource had no ads in, that increased niche of 'BFL circlejerk troll' traffic somehow made me money?

The trust system works as long as companies don't pay people to discredit those they see as opponents as you did. You're essentially saying 'you did it to me so I did it to you', right?

You were not and are not maintaining an impartial resource.  I think everyone here agrees with that, but you. But you keep promoting it as such, thereby misleading anyone and everyone who has read it.  Do you even know what "impartial" means?  You can't have an impartial resource that is your "personal interpretation" those things are mutually exclusive.  Impartial means you base it only on facts, not your interpretation.   To further the farce, you even created an entire CATEGORY named BFL.  How on earth do you possibly maintain that it is impartial?  Do you even hear yourself?

Now, you made the claim that you "can't just rate someone a 1 because you don't like them" to someone else, and I pointed out that you are doing just that, among many other dishonest acts.  I've given you fact based examples of why your guide is flawed and you've responded with more "personal interpretation" devoid of any supporting documentation or evidence.  I also pointed out your inconsistent criteria that you establish and then throw away IN THE SAME POST, and yet you maintain that your guide is impartial?!  Are you serious?

Then if it matters, why don't you lobby Theymos to fix it?  If it works as intended, then the trust system should not so easily be gamed.  If it does not work as intended, it needs to be fixed.  Your livelyhood?  What about mine?  You saw a quick and dirty opportunity to jump on the BFL hate bandwagon to boost your guide to the trolls and you took it.  Now you're complaining about it happening to you?  Please.  Cry me a river.  Don't be so hypocritical.

You targeted me because I was maintaining an impartial resource which stated clearly that it was my personal interpretation and to be supplemented by a buyer's own research.

The -9 BFL category wasn't even required for the smear campaign, as I didn't want to make a bigger deal out of it or draw more attention to it should you be the target of any retaliation. You would have picked up OOF or OFL anyway and still be on 1 point regardless so it made no difference to your rating. In fact, I think you're equivalent rating has gone up quite considerably since you started your smear campaign - even ignoring the fact that you just went up more than any other company in the last adjustment.

Of course it matters, I earn my livelihood from relationships I develop - both current and new - from these forums. You saw a quick and dirty opportunity that might benefit yourself at my expense and you went for it even though you knew it would almost certainly damage my ability to do business.

Are we done yet?

Ethics?! mehehehehe

I added a trust rating to you dogie. ^^

Yes, because the "energy" was so tremendous.  It took all of about 20 minutes.  Nice strawman.

As for your negative ratings, do you agree that the trust system is broken?  Then if so, your rating doesn't matter.
If you do not agree, then the rating system is working as intended and your rating is just.

In either case, it doesn't matter.  But to answer your flawed conclusion... let me ask you this.  How many people have seen your biased guide containing all manner of false information?  More than 327 I would imagine. So I use you as an example to show a flawed system and you in turn post false information and mislead many more people with your guide.  You probably shouldn't talk about ethics.

So as COO of BFL, you preferred to incentivise your forum members to discredit me rather than spend that energy to improve your company and so improve your rating... I have 327 negative ratings thanks to you, does that make your happy?

dogie, I'm a fan of this thread, but Inaba has a few points.  I know deescalating shit now is unlikely, but...  Don't even know what I'm trying to say

It's really not. There's been a concensus that BFL is as shitty as companies get and we are all willing to wait until they change but they haven't.

Feel free to provide evidence that suggests otherwise.


What did BFL get better at besides refunds? They are still false advertising, still missing deadlines by months, still full of shit, still shilling.


You seem hell bent on convincing us shit doesn't smell like shit.

And you're not even explaining why BFL is no longer the shittiest company, your simply raging at people raging.


Being wrong and missing deadlines is fine. When you start costing your customers thousands of dollars it's not fine.

When you miss deadlines by a year as well as not even coming close to specs, then repeat the same fuckup the following year, it begins to look like a lie or at the very least gross incompetence.


Same can be said about yourself about the lack of reading comprehension.

My 29 points were a perfect example of "BFL'ing" which was responded with the classic runaround/deceit josh is known for.

I'm honestly not sure how you saw his response and actually thought to yourself "wow this inaba guy isn't totally full of shit".

If you'd like me to explain point by point I'll do so.


This comes off as incredibly arrogant and ignorant.

I'd suggest taking your own time to educate yourself on the matter before declaring us unreasonable.

Lol, sorry to disappoint you Inaba, but Bicknellski and me are two totally different people.  You can check the join dates, post history, trust records etc.  We don't write the same at all!  

I have nothing against you or your company on a personal level.  I mean BFL's track record speaks for itself.

I'm pointing out your hypocricy and duplicity.  If you call that complaining, so be it.  I don't really care what you rate BFL on the guide, but please don't mislead newbies and everyone one else by stating that your guide is unbiased and true.  There's nothing unbiased or true about it.  It's all how you feel about the subject and damn the facts.  You complain that BFL misleads people and here you are doing it.  Practice what you preach.


Why should I not pick someone who is actively and prominently spreading false information?  The point is that anyone, no matter how highly or lowly regarded can game the system with ease.  Picking an abandoned account that can't defend itself would not prove the point.  Picking an account, in this case yours, that would vigorously defend itself and still end up with a shitcan rating illustrates how broken the system is.  Or how unbroken it is, perhaps.  At least according to Theymos.  I am sure you, Bickfailski and I disagree, though.

People tend to have a VERY short memory. Same problem for reelecting politicians, wars, etc.. Bfl is not a scam?! Roflmao.
They disserve every bad ratings. Hell they dont even disserve a 1 in your high quality work and guide dogie.
 They disserve to be pined on the wall and put in scammer quaratine ad eternum.
Avoid them as the plague.
They were the first in bitcoin asic industry to mass scam so they at least get reward with the shit crown and the special verb "bfl'ed". The same way gox had it coming.

Like bitcoin, its a global consensus.

You're the one that is complaining. You want a higher score in that category than you're entitled to at this point, or any other company gets. Ship more, be patient, receive a higher score for this generation.



I'm not saying stopping taking preorders isn't a good thing, but you have to replace it with something. The wording of that category might be in the negative but thats because it assume that all companies are actually selling something. Ie if you're not using preorders, you're selling you're main revenue and business model based of in hand hardware. You're developing and taking the risk off the customers backs and putting it on your own. It seems that's what you're heading towards so good on you. But you can't eat the cake until its baked yet - be patient and you'll be rewarded.




I was referring to the fact that two weeks had become synonymous with BFL and it doesn't just happen overnight. Sure the original statement gets taken out of context and sensationalised, but it gets done so around a core theme which in this case is 'its coming soon, in a bit, bit more, bit more, nearly there.' [Can we let this bit of the discussion thread die now, its hashed out more than a USB miner and gone a bit OT].

There was 290,000 members on the forums at the time. You chose Theymos as one. Why was I chosen as one of the other two? Why was it 'convenient' that I was chosen to be bombarded with negative trust out of all those possibilities? You could have chosen abandoned accounts, your own accounts or accounts you'd made purposely for the 'experiment' as you called it. Instead, you chose me. Why?

Ohhh ChuckBuck... I mean Bicknellski.  Did you post with the wrong account?  Oopsie! lol

Quick, pull a Garr255 and delete it and pretend it wasn't you, then accuse ME of having sock puppets!

Read a few posts up, there is no BFL rating. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8843681

They're not a scam company, my god. They've been delivering in hand hardware for OVER a year now. Not that they were a scam to begin with. Not that Canaan Creative is Avalon. Not that Yifu has been there for 12-15 months.

Bitmain went down because they used preorders on the L1, and long preorders at that. Once they stop using preorders (and Josh, continue selling in hand hardware only), they'll return back to 16/20.

No I'm not paid by AM, but I may be in the future to provide UK and EU returns for the Tube. People are (rightly) complaining that they have to send boxes back to CN/HK to RMA. If I am it will be declared, as like everything else I do in this industry its done in absolute transparency even when its not required.

Well, because frankly, the accusers don't end up being as credible as they could be, by exaggerating, and intentionally reading what they want into what is being said, rather than what is actually being said.

You know how this bitcoin crowd is here... it is the same thing over and over again... grab the pitchforks whenever things don't go perfectly their way the way they think it should be, and screw the realities of the situations.

We do the same with our politics, and we fuck that up too because we don't see what is actually there.

Yes, BFL fucked up in a lot of ways before. A fact they even admit to. But damn, some troller gets butthurt over being banned, and decides to take it over here to keep a fight going, and we just buy into it, just cuz "we all know BFL is evil incarnate"... and then dumbfucks like the other guy who has his mind so made up he isn't willing to see that BFL got better at some things and give them credit for that, as the there is no debate anymore.

I've been watching the back and forth with Inaba the last few pages, and I gotta say, and I didn't expect to say this, he's starting to sound somewhat justified in his anger right now.

So many are so hell bent on making him out to be evil and a liar, as if they purposely planned for production to not stay on schedule, making them out to be liars when they don't make their anticipated dates, etc etc...

I mean, hell... I was around through the whole initial ASIC pre-order period (I was a day-1 pre-order) and so many just couldn't stop themselves from exaggerating and accusing and trying to get a full blown forum riot going it was ridiculous.

It is no wonder Inaba gets defensive... something I didn't really appreciate so much at the time, getting caught up on the whole hate-fest, but I've had similar crap happen to me too. Didn't matter how up front I was trying to be during the process, things kept going wrong, deadlines kept being missed, other people I was counting on to meet their own deadlines, missed their deadlines, and no matter how much I kept trying to keep people informed of the issues, it didn't matter... I was a liar... and it wasn't at all relevant that I didn't lie, I was simply wrong.

Ya know... ... sighs...

I love the bitcoin community... I really do... but there are so many times now, where it seems we have a lot of the dumbest smart people I've ever encountered around here, and it gets to the point where it is hard to take it seriously anymore.

You guys read, and link to stuff, but you don't even comprehend what the paragraphs you're reading even mean sometimes.

Those 29 points Inaba responded to earlier, were a perfect example.

You guys aren't reasonable or objective. Why should I give your arguments any weight whatsoever?

Anyways... you asked, and there's my answer.

Feel free to totally miss the point and flame or troll on as you're accustomed to.

=squeak=

Why even bothering arguing with obvious bfl trollz & shillz?! Arent Those 50k sold miners they refering to the 5gh ones they unloaded in wallmarts for 300$ each?! Such ethics, taking advantage of the noobs. BFL: Buy a Fucking Lie