lets stay on topic - H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation
Oh, and this thread got moved to Service Discussion and so it should. Makes sense.
C'mon BLOCK #2!! where are you?
QG
Topic: H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - page 43. (Read 113313 times)
you mean each 10-12 days 20% rise? This is NOT going to happen, and if it does NO mining can survive IF the price stays the same, which is what you assume.
First off, im not trying to be an ass, or cause FUD or anything.Im honestly just trying to understand.
When I computed the average rise of the difficulty factor from Jan to now, it was 18.2% each increment.
So, this is an honest question from my point of view...
Why is a average of 18-20% increase not going to happen, when it's been happening since the beginning of the year?
Im trying to make an honest estimate of the returns I might make on the SP30 (6THs, Sept delivery).
I used the bitcoinwisdom calculator and came up with an average difficulty bump of 18.2% since Jan of this year.
I then entered that growth rate and the expected 6THs rate and got the following chart.
Even with the slightly reduced difficulty growth rate, and boosting the THs to the MAX (unrealistic in my opinion), I still see a maximum return of just over $2K (assuming BTC is constant price).
Is there a reason to believe that the growth rate in the difficulty factor is incorrect?
BTC has been fairly stable around $600 for some time now, is there a reason to believe it will go up (which could change the end-values)?
What am I missing here?
I used the bitcoinwisdom calculator and came up with an average difficulty bump of 18.2% since Jan of this year.
I then entered that growth rate and the expected 6THs rate and got the following chart.
Even with the slightly reduced difficulty growth rate, and boosting the THs to the MAX (unrealistic in my opinion), I still see a maximum return of just over $2K (assuming BTC is constant price).
Is there a reason to believe that the growth rate in the difficulty factor is incorrect?
BTC has been fairly stable around $600 for some time now, is there a reason to believe it will go up (which could change the end-values)?
What am I missing here?
couple of updates to the directory this week:
Thanks for the update QG.
I confirm ambient in Michigan Colocation, temps are getting better and better every day.
How does it make sense to host a SP30 (Sept) for $350/Month (Mich-colo) when it only generates $1500 in it's lifetime?
Im not trying to be stupid, I just don't get how this works at all? The monthly income is less than the hosting costs after 2 months at CoLo, not to mention the purchase price...
I just don't see how people make any money doing this anymore...
Im not trying to be stupid, I just don't get how this works at all? The monthly income is less than the hosting costs after 2 months at CoLo, not to mention the purchase price...
I just don't see how people make any money doing this anymore...
| Date | Days | Difficulty | Revenue | Profit | Return |
| 2014 | 0 | ||||
| 9-9 - 9-30 | (22 days) | 41849 M | $623.1 | $623.1 | $623.1 |
| 10-1 - 10-31 | (53 days) | 60263 M | $548.7 | $548.7 | $1171 |
| 11-1 - 11-30 | (83 days) | 86779 M | $283.3 | $283.3 | $1455 |
| 12-1 - 12-31 | (114 days) | 149 G | $124 | $124 | $1579 |
| 2015 | |||||
| 1-1 - 1-31 | (145 days) | 215 G | $18.61 | $18.61 | $1597 |
| 2-1 - 2-28 | (173 days) | 310 G | $-45.82 | $-45.82 | $1551 |
couple of updates to the directory this week:
My hosted Stats at the time of posting:
http://www.michigan-colocation.com - quiveringgibbage.gaederopus
http://www.gekkoscience.com - quiveringgibbage.princeps
http://www.gekkoscience.com - quiveringgibbage.linguaefelis
Cheers,
QG
=====================
URL: http://bitcoinasichosting.com/pricing
Price: = $205/KW, $42 per U (1.75 inches)
Location: Seattle WA 98122 USA
Comment: Operated is Dalkore
Thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hosting-high-cacacity-density-bitcoin-asic-hosting-505980
=====================
=====================
URL: http://dfcolo.com/bitcoin_terraminer_hosting/
Price: Single servers starting $150/mth, 6 Mth, 208V, UPS, Raised Floor, Secure Cabinet, PDU, 24x7 Support, 10Mbps Internet, Setup fee. 5kW $800/mth, $500 Setup fee. 10kW $1500/mth, $500 Setup fee. Price does not include server rails, power cords or PDU’s
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Comment: Representative is Digital Fortress Call Kevin 877-720-0483 - 206-681-9732 ([email protected])
Feedback: 1
=====================
URL: http://bitcoinasichosting.com/pricing
Price: = $205/KW, $42 per U (1.75 inches)
Location: Seattle WA 98122 USA
Comment: Operated is Dalkore
Thread: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/hosting-high-cacacity-density-bitcoin-asic-hosting-505980
=====================
=====================
URL: http://dfcolo.com/bitcoin_terraminer_hosting/
Price: Single servers starting $150/mth, 6 Mth, 208V, UPS, Raised Floor, Secure Cabinet, PDU, 24x7 Support, 10Mbps Internet, Setup fee. 5kW $800/mth, $500 Setup fee. 10kW $1500/mth, $500 Setup fee. Price does not include server rails, power cords or PDU’s
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Comment: Representative is Digital Fortress Call Kevin 877-720-0483 - 206-681-9732 ([email protected])
Feedback: 1
=====================
My hosted Stats at the time of posting:
http://www.michigan-colocation.com - quiveringgibbage.gaederopus
Code:
Mining Rate: 1.47Ths (pre-May batch)
Temp Front / Back T,B
30 °C / 73,74 °C
Name GH/s Accepted shares Rejected shares Errors Utility
SP10 1472.475 331809 311 2740 28.71
http://www.gekkoscience.com - quiveringgibbage.princeps
Code:
Mining Rate: 1.44Ths (May batch)
Temp Front / Back T,B
28 °C / 69,72 °C
Name GH/s Accepted shares Rejected shares Errors Utility
SP10 1440 141657 167 1128 28.66
http://www.gekkoscience.com - quiveringgibbage.linguaefelis
Code:
Mining Rate: 1.45Ths (May batch)
Temp Front / Back T,B
28 °C / 70,73 °C
Name GH/s Accepted shares Rejected shares Errors Utility
SP10 1445.85 193661 200 1373 28.88
Cheers,
QG
Then, why all this talk about hosting miners in WA. Any state, except NY and CA would do. It is either important or non-important, but it cannot be important enough for the hosting company (to be in WA) and non-important for customers. It does not make sense.
It's a distraction. They hope that by quoting low electric rates you'll assume their hosting rates are also low.
If you look to Iceland, you see how low hosting rates are possible at around 4-6ct/kWh power cost.
Iceland DCs charge between 110$ and 120$/kW (from the first kW), with the above quoted internal power costs, a very fair price in my opinion.
WA power costs are even cheaper for DCs most of the time, still they don´t manage better (or even equal) hosting tariffs for miners, showcasing that they either do not understand the situation or sit on huge profits.
I have 1 unit at Advania in Iceland, the air intake temperature is usually 18°C and sometimes up to 20°C, it runs perfectly stable without any power outages.
I obviously share the opinion that miners don´t need those extra 0.5% of uptime, as they nearly double the operational costs.
I also highly doubt that the power lines to DCs frequently suffer outages.
Then, why all this talk about hosting miners in WA. Any state, except NY and CA would do. It is either important or non-important, but it cannot be important enough for the hosting company (to be in WA) and non-important for customers. It does not make sense.
It's a distraction. They hope that by quoting low electric rates you'll assume their hosting rates are also low.
Then, why all this talk about hosting miners in WA. Any state, except NY and CA would do. It is either important or non-important, but it cannot be important enough for the hosting company (to be in WA) and non-important for customers. It does not make sense. Perhaps, I am pushing this point too much, but otherwise the whole thing does not work.
You forgot to mention HI.
It's important for companies that are trying to push the price down, like mine. For most other datacenters, it doesn't matter much, as long as they're paying less than about $0.10/kWh. Keep in mind, also, that Seattle's rates aren't that good. Don't lump all of WA into one, because the rates vary by about 4x between different utility companies in the same state. Central WA is where the really good stuff is.
Regarding the uptime: some people are running miners in their garages with almost the same success. All you need is a good proper ventilation with some air conditioning (as long as the temperatures stay below 82oF or so), disconnect detection (no connection) and periodic reboot (usually not the miners themselves, but the software)-and you are golden.
Just for reference, 99.982% is about 1.576 hours of downtime per year. Tier 3 means you can rely on your downtime being less than that. Typical actual uptimes in a tier 3 datacenter are around 99.999%. Tier 3 means that they don't even turn machines off for maintenance. In tier 3, you usually have redundant power connections, so you can turn off one circuit for maintenance and still have your machines powered. Often, they have double-redundant power, so you can turn off any circuit in the building and still have at least two paths for redundant power supply. You're not going to achieve that level of reliability in your garage.
Fortunately, for bitcoin mining, you don't need to.
It seems that current WA datacenters are not passing almost any savings in electricity rates to consumers as the price in Michigan and WA are essentially the same despite electricity being 1/3-1/4 in central WA. Just a comment.
Electricity usage is a small portion of the total costs of running a traditional tier 3 (>= 99.982% uptime) datacenter. This is reflected in their rates. They charge about 2-8 cents for electricity, and 12-18 cents for everything else.
Then, why all this talk about hosting miners in WA. Any state, except NY and CA would do. It is either important or non-important, but it cannot be important enough for the hosting company (to be in WA) and non-important for customers. It does not make sense. Perhaps, I am pushing this point too much, but otherwise the whole thing does not work. Regarding the uptime: some people are running miners in their garages with almost the same success. All you need is a good proper ventilation with some air conditioning (as long as the temperatures stay below 82oF or so), disconnect detection (no connection) and periodic reboot (usually not the miners themselves, but the software)-and you are golden.
Exactly. Miners just need the cheapest $/kW as possible. They can ignore the rest.
It seems that current WA datacenters are not passing almost any savings in electricity rates to consumers as the price in Michigan and WA are essentially the same despite electricity being 1/3-1/4 in central WA. Just a comment.
Electricity usage is a small portion of the total costs of running a traditional tier 3 (>= 99.982% uptime) datacenter. This is reflected in their rates. They charge about 2-8 cents for electricity, and 12-18 cents for everything else.
Then, why all this talk about hosting miners in WA. Any state, except NY and CA would do. It is either important or non-important, but it cannot be important enough for the hosting company (to be in WA) and non-important for customers. It does not make sense. Perhaps, I am pushing this point too much, but otherwise the whole thing does not work. Regarding the uptime: some people are running miners in their garages with almost the same success. All you need is a good proper ventilation with some air conditioning (as long as the temperatures stay below 82oF or so), disconnect detection (no connection) and periodic reboot (usually not the miners themselves, but the software)-and you are golden.
It seems that current WA datacenters are not passing almost any savings in electricity rates to consumers as the price in Michigan and WA are essentially the same despite electricity being 1/3-1/4 in central WA. Just a comment.
Electricity usage is a small portion of the total costs of running a traditional tier 3 (>= 99.982% uptime) datacenter. This is reflected in their rates. They charge about 2-8 cents for electricity, and 12-18 cents for everything else.
@Digital Fortress
... as DCs in WA get 3-4ct/kWh electricity... Spondoolies is able to quote 16cts /kWh (115$/kW) in a WA facility (starting from a 2.7kW contract), I am wondering why you are quoting 20% more on a 10kW contract.
... as DCs in WA get 3-4ct/kWh electricity... Spondoolies is able to quote 16cts /kWh (115$/kW) in a WA facility (starting from a 2.7kW contract), I am wondering why you are quoting 20% more on a 10kW contract.
Power costs in Seattle, where DF is based, are around $0.068/kWh. The sub-$0.04 stuff is all in central WA, where Titan (Spondoolies's contracted datacenter) and I are. My rates in Grant should be about $0.023/kWh once I get above 200 kW load. Titan's are probably similar. That's probably much of why DF is pricier than Titan.
It seems that current WA datacenters are not passing almost any savings in electricity rates to consumers as the price in Michigan and WA are essentially the same despite electricity being 1/3-1/4 in central WA. Just a comment.
I'm more than ok with 99.5% uptime. No need for diesel and UPS. Better focus on cheap and effective cooling.
Yeah, me too. Overall uptime will be less than that, obviously, because there's also internet connectivity downtime, maintenance/system upgrade downtime, cooling downtime, and operator error downtime to consider, but I think we can keep those four well under 0.5% total.
On the flip side, miners often experience additional downtime due to problems with the miner or problems with the pool. I've got a few ideas for things we can do to reduce those issues with local automated monitoring and rapid responses with staff trained for bitcoin miners. I'll give more details after we've built it.
@All DCs: You need to realize that bitcoin mining doesn't need all the fancy and expensive backup stuff. The diesel generator isn't needed if it brings costs down. You need to see how much will the power be down in 1 year. We miners are ok with 1-2-3% of having the power down. I am sure that all electric problem can be fixed in a matter of hours/days and they don't occur frequently.
Bitcoin mining needs DCs that are like a chicken farm. Minimum investment that provides power and cold air. That's it!
Bitcoin mining needs DCs that are like a chicken farm. Minimum investment that provides power and cold air. That's it!
Roadstress, that's basically what we're doing. We're designing our system from the ground up with bitcoin mining (and mostly SP30s, since that's what Mike and I bought) in mind. No generator, no UPS, very low PUE, enough cooling for extremely high density (50+ kW/rack), and designed to be run near full capacity.
The PUDs around here all are pretty good in terms of power reliability. Chelan County PUD informally cited a figure of around 99.5% for power uptime, and I think that Grant and Douglas are similar. A diesel generator might get you 0.4% extra, and UPS another 0.09%. Diesel generators cost a lot more than 0.4% of the price of a bitcoin miner per kW, and battery backup is even worse.
I'm more than ok with 99.5% uptime. No need for diesel and UPS. Better focus on cheap and effective cooling.
@All DCs: You need to realize that bitcoin mining doesn't need all the fancy and expensive backup stuff. The diesel generator isn't needed if it brings costs down. You need to see how much will the power be down in 1 year. We miners are ok with 1-2-3% of having the power down. I am sure that all electric problem can be fixed in a matter of hours/days and they don't occur frequently.
Bitcoin mining needs DCs that are like a chicken farm. Minimum investment that provides power and cold air. That's it!
Bitcoin mining needs DCs that are like a chicken farm. Minimum investment that provides power and cold air. That's it!
Roadstress, that's basically what we're doing. We're designing our system from the ground up with bitcoin mining (and mostly SP30s, since that's what Mike and I bought) in mind. No generator, no UPS, very low PUE, enough cooling for extremely high density (50+ kW/rack), and designed to be run near full capacity.
The PUDs around here all are pretty good in terms of power reliability. Chelan County PUD informally cited a figure of around 99.5% for power uptime, and I think that Grant and Douglas are similar. A diesel generator might get you 0.4% extra, and UPS another 0.09%. Diesel generators cost a lot more than 0.4% of the price of a bitcoin miner per kW, and battery backup is even worse.
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