I know there is no such thing as 'free energy' but what if it was possible? - page 11.

cocos

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Quote from: Rassah on November 12, 2014, 09:25:03 AM

Quote from: cocos on November 09, 2014, 05:44:04 AM

Because the output energy is bigger than the input energy. Faraday wrote it requires 96Kj of electrical energy to split water into HHO with an increase of 286Kj of heat energy created when Hydrogen is recombined to make water. Gasoline and Diesel are around 90 Octane, but HHO is 130 Octane.

This is impossible, not because we don't have the technology to make this work, but because that's not how the universe works. Note that NONE of the people who came up with any such "inventions" actually use them to power their houses and cars.

A classic example of bigger output than the input, is nuclear energy. Nuclear energy uses the aether power. But you can see many other examples here:

It Runs On Water Full Documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81RQ6XwaRyM

BADecker

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All energy is free. Why? Because it can't really be created or destroyed... at least not in any way that we know how to do.

The thing that is not free is converting it to our use, or converting it from one form to another.

BADecker

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For once I agree with Rassah ^^... at least in part. Let's see somebody power their doghouse with something like this. After all, that would be a lot cheaper to build than powering your whole house... unless your wife has kicked you out, that is - in the doghouse.

Cheesy

Rassah

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Quote from: cocos on November 09, 2014, 05:44:04 AM

Because the output energy is bigger than the input energy. Faraday wrote it requires 96Kj of electrical energy to split water into HHO with an increase of 286Kj of heat energy created when Hydrogen is recombined to make water. Gasoline and Diesel are around 90 Octane, but HHO is 130 Octane.

This is impossible, not because we don't have the technology to make this work, but because that's not how the universe works. Note that NONE of the people who came up with any such "inventions" actually use them to power their houses and cars.

BADecker

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Quote from: nsimmons on November 09, 2014, 04:16:51 PM

Quote from: BADecker on November 09, 2014, 11:26:14 AM

The point? Alcohol, that has less latent energy in it, can be made to do the same amount of work as gasoline that has more latent energy. This savings in energy is almost like a little free energy from something as simple as ethanol.

No it can't, there are less bonds in ethanol than gasoline, which is primarily octane, decane and other long chain molecules.
The enthalpy of combustion can be calculated and verified with something as simple as a bomb-calorimeter where energy loss is minimal compared to something as stupid as an internal combustion engine on a motor cycle.

Gasoline 47.30MJ/kg
Ethanol 29.7 MJ/kg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_of_combustion

This is how much energy is required to bring the atoms together and assemble them. Hocus pocus, buzz words and marketing do not alter the molecular structure of a simple carbon chain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy

This is literally first year chemistry of which you can verify yourself at home, a calorimeter is not difficult to assemble.
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=ithfVI6DAeunmALWr4HwDQ#q=homemade+calorimeter

Comparing a poorly tuned gasoline burning engine to a properly tuned ethanol burning engine does not add more carbon-carbon bonds.
10:1 compression ratio is low if ones goal is as complete combustion as possible, an aluminium headed gasoline engine would run at 18:1 with proper anti-knock agents(tetra-ethyl-lead) and aggressive cooling.

Are you including compression pressure and the resulting far-greater combustion pressure, along with the far greater heat drain into cylinder walls and head with the far hotter gasoline combustion? These reduce the effect of gasoline power?

However, the problem with higher compression/combustion pressures is that the lubrication of the engine may not be adequate.

nsimmons

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Quote from: BADecker on November 09, 2014, 11:26:14 AM

The point? Alcohol, that has less latent energy in it, can be made to do the same amount of work as gasoline that has more latent energy. This savings in energy is almost like a little free energy from something as simple as ethanol.

No it can't, there are less bonds in ethanol than gasoline, which is primarily octane, decane and other long chain molecules.
The enthalpy of combustion can be calculated and verified with something as simple as a bomb-calorimeter where energy loss is minimal compared to something as stupid as an internal combustion engine on a motor cycle.

Gasoline 47.30MJ/kg
Ethanol 29.7 MJ/kg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_of_combustion

This is how much energy is required to bring the atoms together and assemble them. Hocus pocus, buzz words and marketing do not alter the molecular structure of a simple carbon chain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enthalpy

This is literally first year chemistry of which you can verify yourself at home, a calorimeter is not difficult to assemble.
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=ithfVI6DAeunmALWr4HwDQ#q=homemade+calorimeter

Comparing a poorly tuned gasoline burning engine to a properly tuned ethanol burning engine does not add more carbon-carbon bonds.
10:1 compression ratio is low if ones goal is as complete combustion as possible, an aluminium headed gasoline engine would run at 18:1 with proper anti-knock agents(tetra-ethyl-lead) and aggressive cooling.

b!z

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the bitcoin difficulty would go up

notbatman

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You'll go farther on a litre of gasoline than you'll go on a litre of alcohol. There's no getting around the fact gasoline has a higher energy content.

BADecker

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Quote from: cocos on November 09, 2014, 05:44:04 AM

Quote from: Rassah on November 09, 2014, 12:58:28 AM

Quote from: cocos on October 31, 2014, 04:32:17 AM

The end of oil companies is here!

This film shows the first HHO central Heating System using only water for fuel. The unique patented burner converts water into HHO (water gas). The burner uses at full capacity 100ml
of water and only 1,4KW electricity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l6deTVgtmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB0A99NIl3c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnuUfRXmdCo

Why would you use a whole lot of electricity to break up water into hydrogen and oxygen (HHO), and then burn them for heat, instead of just use electricity for heat directly?

Water us not in any way a fuel. A fuel is something that exists at a high energy state, and is burned or converted to a lower energy state, releasing heat in process. Water already exists at the lowest energy state.

Because the output energy is bigger than the input energy. Faraday wrote it requires 96Kj of electrical energy to split water into HHO with an increase of 286Kj of heat energy created when Hydrogen is recombined to make water. Gasoline and Diesel are around 90 Octane, but HHO is 130 Octane.

I think the original edition of "Brown's Alcohol Cookbook" explained it like this. Ethanol (alcohol) is partially burned ethyl gasoline. This gasoline has more power in it than the alcohol form of it, because it has not been burned at all, yet.

Brown ran ethanol in a motorcycle. He found that he had to increase the compression ration to 18 to 1 - normal for gasoline engines is less than 10 to 1 - so that he could get the same amount of power out of the alcohol that he got out of the gasoline. Yet, the gasoline had more latent energy in it because it was not partially burned like the alcohol was. The reason that Brown could run the engine at such a high compression ratio, was due to the high octane rating of the alcohol.

The point? Alcohol, that has less latent energy in it, can be made to do the same amount of work as gasoline that has more latent energy. This savings in energy is almost like a little free energy from something as simple as ethanol.

cocos

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Activity: 144

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Quote from: Rassah on November 09, 2014, 12:58:28 AM

Quote from: cocos on October 31, 2014, 04:32:17 AM

The end of oil companies is here!

This film shows the first HHO central Heating System using only water for fuel. The unique patented burner converts water into HHO (water gas). The burner uses at full capacity 100ml
of water and only 1,4KW electricity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l6deTVgtmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB0A99NIl3c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnuUfRXmdCo

Why would you use a whole lot of electricity to break up water into hydrogen and oxygen (HHO), and then burn them for heat, instead of just use electricity for heat directly?

Water us not in any way a fuel. A fuel is something that exists at a high energy state, and is burned or converted to a lower energy state, releasing heat in process. Water already exists at the lowest energy state.

Because the output energy is bigger than the input energy. Faraday wrote it requires 96Kj of electrical energy to split water into HHO with an increase of 286Kj of heat energy created when Hydrogen is recombined to make water. Gasoline and Diesel are around 90 Octane, but HHO is 130 Octane.

xkrishna

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Accepting stellars, paypal ( got a way to handle )

Magnetism attracts me as free energy source

Buffer Overflow

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Quote from: cocos on October 31, 2014, 04:32:17 AM

The end of oil companies is here!

Delusional.

Rassah

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Quote from: cocos on October 31, 2014, 04:32:17 AM

The end of oil companies is here!

This film shows the first HHO central Heating System using only water for fuel. The unique patented burner converts water into HHO (water gas). The burner uses at full capacity 100ml
of water and only 1,4KW electricity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l6deTVgtmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB0A99NIl3c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnuUfRXmdCo

Why would you use a whole lot of electricity to break up water into hydrogen and oxygen (HHO), and then burn them for heat, instead of just use electricity for heat directly?

Water is not in any way a fuel. A fuel is something that exists at a high energy state, and is burned or converted to a lower energy state, releasing heat in process. Water already exists at the lowest energy state.

Mr Tsoutsounopaiktis

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Quote from: Rassah on October 30, 2014, 09:26:52 AM

All these magnet motors seem to be built on the principle of two magnets pushing apart.

Oh! You noticed!

cocos

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Activity: 144

Merit: 100

The end of oil companies is here!

This film shows the first HHO central Heating System using only water for fuel. The unique patented burner converts water into HHO (water gas). The burner uses at full capacity 100ml
of water and only 1,4KW electricity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l6deTVgtmo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sB0A99NIl3c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnuUfRXmdCo

notbatman

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Every so-called "new energy" or "free energy" company/non-profit organization is a guaranteed scam. Even the established companies with established technologies are corrupt look at Enron.

cocos

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Quote from: GreekBitcoin on October 30, 2014, 11:02:45 AM

Quote from: cocos on October 30, 2014, 10:51:29 AM

Quote from: Rassah on October 30, 2014, 09:26:52 AM

All these magnet motors seem to be built on the principle of two magnets pushing apart. Problem is, in order for two magnets to push apart, they first have to be brought close enough together to start pushing. This means being brought together against the resistance that is already pushing them apart. That uses up more energy than the final push. Even the Yildiz motor relies on batteries to overcome that resistance, and will stop working once the batteries run out.

The undeniable proof that all these motors are fake is that ALL of them have to be started for the demonstration. Why not just start them once when you are done building them, and just leave them running forever?

So the Yildiz motor runs on batteries? And the people from Delft university are idiots?

Can you show me a link from Delft university where it says that indeed a gathering about it happened there and that anyone associated with Delft university was there?

I suppose you cant cause it is just a stupid video. But if you find something then yes people from Delft university are idiots.

I am waiting.

P.S. Universities often hire out rooms. Who knows who turns up. But still Delft gets lower in my eyes if they let obvious scammers in there.

Call them and ask them.

Delft University of Technology T: +31 (0)15 27 89111

GreekBitcoin

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getmonero.org

Quote from: cocos on October 30, 2014, 10:51:29 AM

Quote from: Rassah on October 30, 2014, 09:26:52 AM

All these magnet motors seem to be built on the principle of two magnets pushing apart. Problem is, in order for two magnets to push apart, they first have to be brought close enough together to start pushing. This means being brought together against the resistance that is already pushing them apart. That uses up more energy than the final push. Even the Yildiz motor relies on batteries to overcome that resistance, and will stop working once the batteries run out.

The undeniable proof that all these motors are fake is that ALL of them have to be started for the demonstration. Why not just start them once when you are done building them, and just leave them running forever?

So the Yildiz motor runs on batteries? And the people from Delft university are idiots?

Can you show me a link from Delft university where it says that indeed a gathering about it happened there and that anyone associated with Delft university was there?

I suppose you cant cause it is just a stupid video. But if you find something then yes people from Delft university are idiots.

I am waiting.

P.S. Universities often hire out rooms. Who knows who turns up. But still Delft gets lower in my eyes if they let obvious scammers in there.

cocos

full member

Activity: 144

Merit: 100

Quote from: Rassah on October 30, 2014, 09:26:52 AM

All these magnet motors seem to be built on the principle of two magnets pushing apart. Problem is, in order for two magnets to push apart, they first have to be brought close enough together to start pushing. This means being brought together against the resistance that is already pushing them apart. That uses up more energy than the final push. Even the Yildiz motor relies on batteries to overcome that resistance, and will stop working once the batteries run out.

The undeniable proof that all these motors are fake is that ALL of them have to be started for the demonstration. Why not just start them once when you are done building them, and just leave them running forever?

So the Yildiz motor runs on batteries? And the people from Delft university are idiots?

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

All these magnet motors seem to be built on the principle of two magnets pushing apart. Problem is, in order for two magnets to push apart, they first have to be brought close enough together to start pushing. This means being brought together against the resistance that is already pushing them apart. That uses up more energy than the final push. Even the Yildiz motor relies on batteries to overcome that resistance, and will stop working once the batteries run out.

The undeniable proof that all these motors are fake is that ALL of them have to be started for the demonstration. Why not just start them once when you are done building them, and just leave them running forever?

Topic: I know there is no such thing as 'free energy' but what if it was possible? - page 11. (Read 18366 times)