Topic: I was hacked (1170btc stolen) - 500btc max BOUNTY - page 2. (Read 35690 times)
i don't understand the premise of an "honest" mixer. what qualifies them to decide whose coins are whose?
@Klee What is the latest status. Have u been able to gather any more info ? Are u trying to sue BitMixer ?
First time I saw this thread today...Can't believe what you must be going through! I wish I knew more about hacking so I could help you trace this guy down.
Unfortunately I am still learning as much as I can!
Hope the best for you
Unfortunately I am still learning as much as I can!
Hope the best for you
"An honest mixer" 
Surely an oxymoron.
Can't think of any reason other than illegal that would require coins to be mixed. But am prepared to be educated otherwise.
Surely an oxymoron.Can't think of any reason other than illegal that would require coins to be mixed. But am prepared to be educated otherwise.
Don't be one of those.
Just because people want privacy, doesn't mean they are doing something illegal.
If that were the case, we would make rest room walls and stalls all transparent.
Just because something is illegal in some state somewhere doesn't mean it's wrong.
"An honest mixer" Surely an oxymoron.
Can't think of any reason other than illegal that would require coins to be mixed. But am prepared to be educated otherwise.
Surely an oxymoron.Can't think of any reason other than illegal that would require coins to be mixed. But am prepared to be educated otherwise.
Don't be one of those.
Just because people want privacy, doesn't mean they are doing something illegal.
If that were the case, we would make rest room walls and stalls all transparent.
Im sory but I wish this thread was taken down I feel bad for the Op but how come you didnt take precaution with that much bitcoins? I really would throw up if this was me, you must be rich then, Im gonna pray for you dude and your soul, I had rather donated all the btc for a good cause then to lose it to some scum bag loser who has no life to hack other peoples money.
The "law" is comprised of arbitrary scribbles of men who think they have the right to tell YOU what is right and what is wrong. Don't fall into the trap of accepting what politicians say as absolute truth. Their "law" is flawed. If you're not hurting anyone, you're not committing a crime.
This may well be true, unfortunately in the real world just because you may disagree with a law, certainly does not invalidate it. If you break the laws of the land, and it is serious enough, you get sent to prison.
Money laundering is never a crime. They made it a "crime" because they are too bad at catching people for real crimes such as theft.
OK, I will change my stance to: money laundering is currently a crime in many/most countries however bitcoin mixing is not money laundering. Good enough?Almost, but not quite. How about "money laundering has been declared a crime by the scribbles of politicians in many/most countries". The distinction matters, because what a man who thinks he has the authority to define right/wrong says versus actual reality is very different. In some countries chewing gum has been declared a crime by politicians. Has morality changed? Is chewing gum somehow now an immoral activity worthy of punishment?
Money "laundering" in and of itself is not a crime; however laundering stolen money is, and knowingly aiding and abetting someone who is trying to launder stolen money should be punished.
Money laundering is never a crime. They made it a "crime" because they are too bad at catching people for real crimes such as theft.
The law defines what's "crime". Money laundering is a crime in most countries. You can argue all you want "you made it crime because you are not good at catching people" in the court, all you want, but that kind of defense won't stand a chance.
The "law" is comprised of arbitrary scribbles of men who think they have the right to tell YOU what is right and what is wrong. Don't fall into the trap of accepting what politicians say as absolute truth. Their "law" is flawed. If you're not hurting anyone, you're not committing a crime.
That is to much btc to lose... I hope you find this bastard and bring him to justice. my account been hacked but i have not lost as much as you have
That's a large sum to lose though, hope you get it back fully soon. Very entertaining thread, btw. It's like an episode of CIS except everything is about cryptocurrencies. 
lol, yeah. I hope the multiple leads that are being followed are leading to our sweat drenched hacker.
Maybe he/she thinks it's been a few days and they probably got away with it?
That's always the point they get busted
All that's really happened is the hacker lost the very generous offer to keep 10%.
Now they will lose 100%+, their freedom and any question of mercy.
Fool(s).
Let's get real here, though. Hundreds of people have stolen large sums of BTC from other people through hacking. How many times have these hackers been brought to justice thanks to people keeping track of the movement of the coins?
He'll get away with this large sum of BTC. It's a shame, but it's reality.
That's a large sum to lose though, hope you get it back fully soon. Very entertaining thread, btw. It's like an episode of CIS except everything is about cryptocurrencies.
lol, yeah. I hope the multiple leads that are being followed are leading to our sweat drenched hacker.
Maybe he/she thinks it's been a few days and they probably got away with it?
That's always the point they get busted
All that's really happened is the hacker lost the very generous offer to keep 10%.
Now they will lose 100%+, their freedom and any question of mercy.
Fool(s).
That's a large sum to lose though, hope you get it back fully soon. Very entertaining thread, btw. It's like an episode of CIS except everything is about cryptocurrencies.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
I'll tell you why it won't work:
1. Few people will use that service when they can choose a mixing service that gives you coins back quickly. Who wants to wait 7 days? It also feels a bit big-brotherish to me.
Fine, don't use it then. As I said earlier:1. Few people will use that service when they can choose a mixing service that gives you coins back quickly. Who wants to wait 7 days? It also feels a bit big-brotherish to me.
If I wanted to mix coins for privacy, would I go to a mixing service related to a string of the thefts, which openly admits money laundering? Or a mixing service where I can put a face to the operation, someone who is open about what they do and does their best to make sure they don't ever handle stolen funds. One which has a solid reputation for playing fair with everyone. Call me boring, but I'd go for the second option, because it's actually lower risk.
A lot of people would prefer lower risk. And also not to fund criminals.
2. More people might be persuaded to use the escrow-mixing scheme you describe if that were sufficient to stop thieves. Unfortunately, it won't be. Thieves will simply sit on the coins, find other ways to mix them, or simply use another mixer, possibly a darknet mixer.
Again, fine. Thieves can use an illegal service, knowing it run by and for criminals. They just have to face facts they knew they were doing it when they ever get arrested. Any claims to innocence falls apart if you knowingly deal with criminals.
So you haven't told me "why it won't work".
All I can see is basically a lot of people in this thread mistrust everyone else in the bitcoin community. You know what would help clear that up? Honest bitcoin services you could trust, from known legitimate players
I think it wouldn't work because it would be uncompetitive with services that give you coins more quickly and with less hassle.
However, I can always be wrong. Try starting such a service if you have the resources to do so.
I still feel, we need to support Klee in every way we can, because WE might be the next victim, and then we will need the same support from this community.
I'm finding it difficult to muster up sympathy on this one. Klee wasn't tricked or scammed, he left the gold on the windowsill, in plain view, window wide open for anyone to take. Which they did.
That's like saying that a girl that wears a dress invites rapists, so its not the rapist's fault if they rape her. It's insane...
Klee didn't TWEET out his private key, he kept it secure in a dropbox that only he had a password to...Not the best security practice but not worthy of being stolen from...
That's more like saying that a girl that wears a provocative dress gets raped and there is no evidence of who did it and the girl doesn't even know what the other person looks like.
hero member
Activity: 560
Merit: 509
I prefer Zakir over Muhammed when mentioning me!
If they are US based they really need to change their view because it is money laundering, a court in the silk road cased said it is and that could easily be used in a suit. I say KLEE brings a lawsuit up against Bitmixer.io (he now has enough funds to cover the initial cost) and i am sure they would give the information over soon enough.
This money laundering has both merits and demerits. We can't tell them to close laundering but they can make it more better especially when someone ask laundering a great amount of BTC. It is really bad that this service utilizing in a worst way.
Kindly,
MZ
I'll tell you why it won't work:
1. Few people will use that service when they can choose a mixing service that gives you coins back quickly. Who wants to wait 7 days? It also feels a bit big-brotherish to me.
Fine, don't use it then. As I said earlier:1. Few people will use that service when they can choose a mixing service that gives you coins back quickly. Who wants to wait 7 days? It also feels a bit big-brotherish to me.
If I wanted to mix coins for privacy, would I go to a mixing service related to a string of the thefts, which openly admits money laundering? Or a mixing service where I can put a face to the operation, someone who is open about what they do and does their best to make sure they don't ever handle stolen funds. One which has a solid reputation for playing fair with everyone. Call me boring, but I'd go for the second option, because it's actually lower risk.
A lot of people would prefer lower risk. And also not to fund criminals.
2. More people might be persuaded to use the escrow-mixing scheme you describe if that were sufficient to stop thieves. Unfortunately, it won't be. Thieves will simply sit on the coins, find other ways to mix them, or simply use another mixer, possibly a darknet mixer.
Again, fine. Thieves can use an illegal service, knowing it run by and for criminals. They just have to face facts they knew they were doing it when they ever get arrested. Any claims to innocence falls apart if you knowingly deal with criminals.
So you haven't told me "why it won't work".
All I can see is basically a lot of people in this thread mistrust everyone else in the bitcoin community. You know what would help clear that up? Honest bitcoin services you could trust, from known legitimate players
Banks would be totally criminal organisations, if they didn't have to answer to anyone. I think that's pretty obvious when you see how they operate. The fact they are made to abide by some rules is what keeps them honest, not because they are inherently honest.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
I actually think it would work more like escrows service. Send coins to mixer. No issues, coins get mixed. Send coins to mixer. Claims of theft. Mixer sends coins back to original address after 7 days. Then we know the thief still has the stolen coins. And this will allow seven days for the genuine owner to track down the thief etc. D
As always, let the free market decide. There is nothing stopping a mixing service from operating like that now.
I'll tell you why it won't work:
1. Few people will use that service when they can choose a mixing service that gives you coins back quickly. Who wants to wait 7 days? It also feels a bit big-brotherish to me.
2. More people might be persuaded to use the escrow-mixing scheme you describe if that were sufficient to stop thieves. Unfortunately, it won't be. Thieves will simply sit on the coins, find other ways to mix them, or just use another mixer, possibly a darknet mixer.
C'm'on folks, abstractions only go so far... bitcoin mixer operators know very well that they are being used for money laundering, and they warmly welcome that clientele.
Right.
If I wanted to mix coins for privacy, would I go to a mixing service related to a string of the thefts, which openly admits money laundering? Or a mixing service where I can put a face to the operation, someone who is open about what they do and does their best to make sure they don't ever handle stolen funds. One which has a solid reputation for playing fair with everyone. Call me boring, but I'd go for the second option, because it's actually lower risk.
Who was that guy who used to do (or still does) escrows? Johnk? People sent him tens, hundreds and thousands of bitcoin to hold in trust, because even though they never met the guy, he had a reputation for being honest. So stop knocking honesty like it's a bad or naive thing.
I actually think it would work more like escrows service. Send coins to mixer. No issues, coins get mixed. Send coins to mixer. Claims of theft. Mixer sends coins back to original address after 7 days. Then we know the thief still has the stolen coins. And this will allow seven days for the genuine owner to track down the thief etc.
It's not the mixer services job to be the police. But if they have any doubts, they should refuse to handle the coins. If all mixer services operated this way, then a theft would have no way to launder stolen coins and it would make it very hard to do anything with those coins without getting caught.
Again, these are only work-in-progress ideas, but for those saying it's impossible I'm trying to provide answers. Speaking of which:
I see absolutely no reason this idea wouldn't work. I also think it would be very good for bitcoin to have some more fucking honest and trustworthy players.
Those who see faults in it don't seem to trust anyone. There is nothing anyone can do for you. Except say "Look out! Who is that behind you??!! They are going to steal your bitcoin!! Sleep with one eye open!"
In any case, no one would risk using an "honest" mixer.
Bullshit. You can't speak for everyone. What "risk" is there?If I wanted to mix coins for privacy, would I go to a mixing service related to a string of the thefts, which openly admits money laundering? Or a mixing service where I can put a face to the operation, someone who is open about what they do and does their best to make sure they don't ever handle stolen funds. One which has a solid reputation for playing fair with everyone. Call me boring, but I'd go for the second option, because it's actually lower risk.
Who was that guy who used to do (or still does) escrows? Johnk? People sent him tens, hundreds and thousands of bitcoin to hold in trust, because even though they never met the guy, he had a reputation for being honest. So stop knocking honesty like it's a bad or naive thing.
The fact that they have a policy that enables them to, unto themselves, confiscate and redistribute deposited money based on a (quite possibly arbitrary) link to a theft, would scare any "honest" customers away.
You see, I knew you would just assume the "honest" mixer would confiscate stolen coins. *I* *never* *said* *that*. I actually think it would work more like escrows service. Send coins to mixer. No issues, coins get mixed. Send coins to mixer. Claims of theft. Mixer sends coins back to original address after 7 days. Then we know the thief still has the stolen coins. And this will allow seven days for the genuine owner to track down the thief etc.
It's not the mixer services job to be the police. But if they have any doubts, they should refuse to handle the coins. If all mixer services operated this way, then a theft would have no way to launder stolen coins and it would make it very hard to do anything with those coins without getting caught.
Again, these are only work-in-progress ideas, but for those saying it's impossible I'm trying to provide answers. Speaking of which:
Hey lemme get this straight. So you come up with an idea that doesn't work, argue that it should be the way things are done, even though you can't figure out how to make it work. And you are arguing.....why? Oh ya, to convince a bunch a bitcoiners that money laundering is a crime.
Dickish comment. I did not come up with an idea that doesn't work - it's not worked out in full detail is all. Big difference! I see absolutely no reason this idea wouldn't work. I also think it would be very good for bitcoin to have some more fucking honest and trustworthy players.
Those who see faults in it don't seem to trust anyone. There is nothing anyone can do for you. Except say "Look out! Who is that behind you??!! They are going to steal your bitcoin!! Sleep with one eye open!"
As far as mixers,
mixers are not money laundering schemes by default...they are set up to provide autonomy and privacy and have many legal and reasonable reasons to be used....Not all government laws are justified and thus concealing the source of your money, whether from unjust individuals, entities, or government agencies is something everyone should have protection from...So I have no issue with mixers...
But someone who facilitates the commission of a theft, by helping the thief in any way, is guilty of conspiring with the theft...And thats what bitmixer.io is guilty of and that is where mixers go from operating legally to illegally...
Bitmixer admitted that the coins were used by the hacker, and then said that they refused to turn over any logbooks or information about knowing that fact...They didn't just say "we don't have any records anymore", they went further then that by saying that "they would never turn over the records of any client, even in this situation"...
that is admitting that you would be willing to conceal the source of a crime, even if you knew it was taking place and you were party to it...That's illegal, and that is prima facia evidence towards the mindset of bitmixer.io's and how they run their business....
Mixers are fine, but bitmixer.io participated in a crime...and nobody on this forum should endorse that, because this type of criminal activity puts your own coins at risk...not from being stolen but from being devalued...
We always complain the bitcoin security is one of biggest hurdles to adoption, and standing behind a company that helps facilitate that, is hurting your own pocketbook by slowing down the process of mass adoption of bitcoin....
mixers are not money laundering schemes by default...they are set up to provide autonomy and privacy and have many legal and reasonable reasons to be used....Not all government laws are justified and thus concealing the source of your money, whether from unjust individuals, entities, or government agencies is something everyone should have protection from...So I have no issue with mixers...
But someone who facilitates the commission of a theft, by helping the thief in any way, is guilty of conspiring with the theft...And thats what bitmixer.io is guilty of and that is where mixers go from operating legally to illegally...
Bitmixer admitted that the coins were used by the hacker, and then said that they refused to turn over any logbooks or information about knowing that fact...They didn't just say "we don't have any records anymore", they went further then that by saying that "they would never turn over the records of any client, even in this situation"...
that is admitting that you would be willing to conceal the source of a crime, even if you knew it was taking place and you were party to it...That's illegal, and that is prima facia evidence towards the mindset of bitmixer.io's and how they run their business....
Mixers are fine, but bitmixer.io participated in a crime...and nobody on this forum should endorse that, because this type of criminal activity puts your own coins at risk...not from being stolen but from being devalued...
We always complain the bitcoin security is one of biggest hurdles to adoption, and standing behind a company that helps facilitate that, is hurting your own pocketbook by slowing down the process of mass adoption of bitcoin....
+1000
"mixers are not money laundering schemes by default" - exactly. But if you choose to operate them as a money laundering service, then they become a money laundering service.
"that is admitting that you would be willing to conceal the source of a crime, even if you knew it was taking place and you were party to it...That's illegal, and that is prima facia evidence towards the mindset of bitmixer.io's and how they run their business...."
Exactly.
"Mixers are fine, but bitmixer.io participated in a crime...and nobody on this forum should endorse that, because this type of criminal activity puts your own coins at risk...not from being stolen but from being devalued..."
Absolutely. If bitcoin community if all stories of theft, blackmail and money-laundering, who the f*&k will buy into it other than more criminals?? It'll massively damage bitcoin in the long run.
"We always complain the bitcoin security is one of biggest hurdles to adoption, and standing behind a company that helps facilitate that, is hurting your own pocketbook by slowing down the process of mass adoption of bitcoin...."
You got it all here. Best post on this topic. At least someone get's it.
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