Topic: I was hacked (1170btc stolen) - 500btc max BOUNTY - page 4. (Read 35690 times)

According to the US, bitcoin is not currency or money. It is an asset.

Only if they knew that they were aiding and abetting some crime, and I guess the penalties for that would vary a lot by country, no clue.

I could think of a few good reasons why someone might want to use such a thing for entirely legal purposes...

bitcoind stuff is stored in ramfs on my machine, but I guess I couldnt know if it was being actively monitored or logged.  i'd think germany would have laws to prevent such a thing, w/o something akin to a search warrant

In any case, no one would risk using an "honest" mixer. The fact that they have a policy that enables them to, unto themselves, confiscate and redistribute deposited money based on a (quite possibly arbitrary) link to a theft, would scare any "honest" customers away. Even those uninterested in laundering money have no incentive to risk having their coins arbitrarily stolen by the "honest" mixer.

I am confused.

I thought that you agreed to cancel the bounty for the hacker. Did he miss one of the payments that he was going to send you?

If he did not default on one of his payments then opening the bounty back up will more likely then not get him to not make his next payment.

Another thing that I think you should consider:

Instead of offering a large bounty to get the coins back, I would suggest offering a bounty for useful information about either the hack, the hacker, or some other information that may help you get your coins back.

There have been so many posts "to" the hack and "to" bitmixer saying to simply give you your coins back and to pay the poster your 500 BTC bounty. It isn't like the hacker is going to read something that some newbie posts and will think "...oh well if this random newbie says I should do it then..."

On a more serious note, the current bounty will likely not result in you getting your coins back. If someone were to somehow steal the coins from the hacker, then they could do a)  return the coins to you minus your 43% bounty or b) keep 100% of the coins while the original hacker would still be blamed for the theft. This person would have a huge incentive to simply to "b"

If you instead offered a bounty for information, then you, yourself can put the pieces together and try to get the coins back.

The law defines what's "crime".  Money laundering is a crime in most countries. You can argue all you want "you made it crime because you are not good at catching people" in the court, all you want, but that kind of defense won't stand a chance.

Break out the ad hominem why don't you?

Before I know what it is? I explained the implications of it, and you apparently refuse to accept this, though you acknowledge that you cannot support your own arguments. It's a moral issue, and we obviously have very opposing viewpoints.

In that sense, I would not be fun to hang out with for a police officer or a soldier, either.

OK, I will change my stance to:  money laundering is currently a crime in many/most countries however bitcoin mixing is not money laundering.  Good enough?

Hey lemme get this straight. So you come up with an idea that doesn't work, argue that it should be the way things are done, even though you can't figure out how to make it work. And you are arguing.....why? Oh ya, to convince a bunch a bitcoiners that money laundering is a crime.

Another way to look at it is what if we did have $10,000 bills in circulation (in Bitcoinland we do, in fiatland not so much).  But if someone did present you with at $10,000 bill would making change without AML/KYC information be morally wrong?  I say no.  The government would, of course, say it is legally wrong but once again that is just another arbitrary law.

Found this:


That is arbitrary.  That is the kind of thing we really need to avoid at all costs.

I disagree.  Money Laundering is a crime and should be a crime.  I just do not agree with the notion that Bitcoin mixing is money laundering.  To me it is the moral equivalent of making change.  Now some have said that well maybe making change for $100 is morally OK but making change for $100,000 is not.  That is arbitrary.  Where exactly does making change become money laundering?  I am sure the government has an answer.  That does not make it right.  Arbitrary laws are just that.

"Laundering" money is not a crime. Stealing money is a crime. Let's not lose focus on who the actual criminals are in this case.

Yea i would support that too, i wonder why satoshi dint implement it, because i dont want to use darkcoin or another shity coin

I agree with this one point and it is a problem with the design of Bitcoin.  It should be fixed and it is one hard fork I would fully support.  It should be a mathematical consequence of the design.  Evidently this was discussed in the very early days by Satoshi himself but was tabled.  If this were the case then there would be no external mixers to worry about as there would be no need.  People would not expect to be able to track bad guys, their enemies, coworkers, family, business competitor, etc. using the "serial numbers" on their money.

This would also stop all the black/red/white/purple coin lister crowd dead in their tracks.

Now that is funny.  Thanks for the laugh.

Yeah profitable because no one will use it, they would have  a 7 days good people money backup to run away at any moment, maybe in the future it can happen.

Anyway, this is all getting off topic. I return this thread to the pro-money laundering lobby. And maybe even to klee's situation with stolen bitcoin?

You mean successful as in profitable?

Success might be governments saying "Well, they have these honest mixer things, which makes sure no stolen bitcoin is laundered. Nothing for us to see here, let's go after those wall street banksters instead".

Maybe if I post it twice, you'll read it? Highlighted in bold for emphasis

A mixer like that will not be succesful, and if you want all the regulation to come here you are a bit early avenger, currently the goverment only investigates bitcoin related to drugs and terrorism , no robberys, we are still a hippie community with internet monopoly money.

Interesting. It seems your arguments all boil down to "other people putting words in your mouth." And yet, you haven't responded to any of the points made.

For example,


Oh? So what happens when the mixer determines that the coins may have been stolen?