Topic: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too - page 5. (Read 21266 times)

Jeff "Hashes do not match" Garzik is famous for attacking all competitors of his projects. Here is one of the recent - https://twitter.com/jgarzik/status/554675231798099968. The fact that the guy endorsing government regulation on cryptocurrencies (his BitSat is completely govt controlled) raises a big red flag over Bitcoin and Bitpay.

Hehe, I was curious what our UtopianFuture was doing... Haven't seen you for ages!

Thanks, for the link. The discussion in that thread actually made me believe that I was being overly defensive of NxT, and some major concerns expressed by Jeff are unresolved. I wouldn't call NxT a scamcoin though , but can certainly understand why Jeff reacted as such with those responses.

The NXT community did spend quite a long time last year refuting all of the above......:
https://nxtforum.org/general-discussion/a-longer-reply-to-jeff-garzik/

A few points to mention:

Large stakeholders: just like every other crypto, NXT is probably better distributed than most.

Anon Devs: we have around 9 core (ish) devs, 3 of whom are non-anonymous.
Not perfect, but, hey, it's crypto.

Source is open, anyone can contribute (met a guy a few weeks ago at a BTC meet, got into a chat, turned out he had contributed code to the contacts system in NXT core).
Development code for upcoming stuff is not open, production code is completely open.

Active resistance: look at the number of NXT clones. We simply don't give a flying f**k on this point (mostly).

Security incidents: one scam centered around Cointropolis (round 50 BTC) and the BTER hack. In a year.
Both attacks were purely based on social engineering and shitty password security, there was never any breach of NXT code itself.

I wouldn't agree with Jeff that NxT is a scamcoin , but he did give some healthy and valid criticism:

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-core-developer-jeff-garzik-believes-nxt-is-a-scamcoin/


    It is marketed like a scammy penny stock. ---] Could be suggest of any alt or bitcoin itself.

    Anon early super large stakeholders + Proof-Of-Stake == the big guys run the table, if they choose. https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf  The central bankers are in place from Day One unless they are super-virtuous and give tons away “fairly.” -- This is a valid concern

    Anonymous developers  - Satoshi was anomynous but most of his code was audited and changed by non-anomynous devs. Another valid concern

    Closed developing process.  Source is periodically handed down from the ivory tower to the masses.--  -I don't know if this is still the case? Can anyone contribute code?

    Certain notable personages (& key stakeholders) that dodge, dodge, dodge, when an obvious attack vector — mitigated in other crypto-finance projects by known techniques — is highlighted.  -True , but the same could be said about many in denial about PoW weaknesses

    Active resistance to making it easier to independently reproduce the software -Exageratted?

    Technical criticism is routinely met with bizarre behavior (notably from come-from-beyond) -Ad Hominem?

   Attacking critics, rather than responding to criticism. -- everyone gets defensive about their projects

    Several security incidents that smell like inside jobs. --

NxT scam distribution.  Indoor job.  Hashes do not match - Jeff Garzik

Well being that this is off-topic as we were originally discussing the NxT currency, and that adding those variables really won't change the order(just increase the valuations) I would suggest we drop it as I don't feel like derailing the thread further into an overly and impossible analysis.

Many of those assets and securities look sketchy as hell but than again Bitcoin is also filled with ponzi's and con artists so that is not a attack towards NxT but our whole ecosystem. 

I will admit again that going through these numbers made me see NxT as only slightly losing marketshare to be fair. If NxT plays their cards right this is how I predict the marketshare landscape to be in 2 years-

1 Bitcoin
2 Ripple
3 Ethereum
4  (Black swan coin)
5  Maidsafe or Factom
6 Stellar
7  Counterparty
8  Bitshares
9  Nxt
10 Litecoin
11 Dogecoin
12 Storj
 

This is incorrect numbers because market-share includes only assets available on the market, every position in CMC should have market cap reduced 10-fold, or maybe even 30-fold.

So, at this point it should be obvious that noone is able to measure market capitalization of Nxt and other cryptos because info is simply unavailable (aye, non-transparency is a disadvantage of an unregulated economy). As we see CMC doesn't reflect real state of things and shouldn't be taken into account. We should take other parameters if we want to compare cryptos. Development progress was already discussed. Do you have anything else in mind?

NXT's USP is anonymity. I don't see how NXT can ever become mainstream and jump over all the regulatory hurdles.

It may, however, survive as a "dark currency" that's used by criminals. The challenge would be to somehow convert your NXT to XRP.

It has weakened in marketshare but if you look at my data above it isn't doing as bad as an ecosystem as I thought.

Have a look at some of the marketcap indicators:

http://coinmarketcap.com/
https://www.coingecko.com/

I just cannot see how NXT won't drop down the table. NXT is treading water (at best) at the moment.

Well this is a different Topic altogether because I was talking about Nxt and this thread was discussing the NxT currency, not separate assets and securities.

As long as everyone is clear that we have changed the topic than the NxT currency ecosystem market share analysis would be changed to this:

   Bitcoin  - ecosystem market cap - hard to estimate because so much but at least 4 billion
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=78.0
https://cryptostocks.com/
http://mpex.co/
http://www.coindesk.com/venture-capital-funding-bitcoin-startups-triples-2014/
http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-venture-capital/

   Ripple - 482.5 m + min 8 mill VC - 490+ m

        PayCoin - 37.5 m +~10m to 100m GAW(who knows how much assets they have with the lies but they def are a decent sized company) = 47.5 m to 137.5 m

   Litecoin 47 m
   
   BitShares 25.9 m +0.9 m assets = 26.8 million

   Nxt - between 22.5 - 25? million ( those hidden assets have non verifiable investments , but most look small)
   
   Stellar -- 16.8+ some big names backing the project but undisclosed investments    
   
   Dogecoin - 13.5 m

So with this new question , the market-share of the complete NxT ecosystem has dropped from #4 to either tied for 5 (Bitshares) or 6.
   
   

Please remove "Litecoin". That is dead.

I'd delete "Peercoin" too.

I would add "Stellar" (a fork of Ripple, though I believe Stellar is way behind).

I feel Dodgecoin and NXT won't make it.

We should, come back when you have numbers, for now your words are backed only by speculations.

This number is incorrect. Jinn has already passed the 1st milestone and extra tokens are considered released to the market. Its market cap should be displayed as $1,094,909. I spotted this error because I'm involved in Jinn, how many errors in other assets? CMC reports incorrect data and I have just showed that. Your proof did "poof", you should revise your position.

You are indicating that Dogecoin, Stellar, paycoin, litecoin, ripple do not have assets  like Bitshares, Bitcoin , and NxT have.

If one includes those assets as part of NxT than you are less wrong. If we are talking about NxT the currency than you are more wrong.
So the NxT currency has been losing market share but the NxT ecosystem has had a market share of (~22.5million total including assets)meaning it has dropped from 4th to 6th in total ecosystem marketshare?

From looking here -
http://nxter.org/sorted-nxt-asset-exchange-listing/

It appears that many of these non-"publicly" traded assets are just investment projects using Nxt. There are many companies with vested assets with the other coins above NxT....shouldn't we include those too?

Should we include GAWs assets in Paycoin?
How About the thousands of Bitcoin companies assets in Bitcoin?
What about all of bitcoins securities and stock issuance's?
How about a percentage of the banks assets that depend upon Ripple/stellar?
 

I already provided evidence that the market cap was accurately supported by other evidence from internet traffic and provided the data.
I have already shown that Bitcoin assets exceed NxT assets.

Are you trying to suggest that there exists many more assets beyond this list with a significant marketcap?:

 SuperNET   $2,746,021
Pangea Poker   $703,643
jl777hodl   $431,769
Jinn   $391,039
Nxttycoin   $338,401
SkyNET   $236,108
Coinomat   $223,300
MMNXT   $80,921
MGW   $76,822
NEMstake   $71,315
NobleNXT   $38,024
NXTInspect   $24,935
HRLTCGEAR   $14,778
OpalTKN   $11,316
VultMining   $5,877
CoinoUSD   $1,253,104
NXTventure   $817,258
InstantDEX   $754,392
NXTprivacy   $377,183
sharkfund0   $364,554
Tradebots   $361,013
Privatebet   $210,727
NeoDICE   $210,601
CryptoCoins   $143,603
ltc2nXt   $140,089
FreeMarket   $118,590
ATOMIC   $115,045
Dorcs   $63,782
Bithaus   $61,784
HRNXTPool   $38,977
ltc2nXt3   $10,244
NXTmovie   $9,180
BearMining   $8,808
ach   $6,900

Total NxT assets= $10,460,103

------------------------------------------
Bitcoin Assets

MaidSafeCoin   Mastercoin   $13,788,865
Gems   Counterparty   $1,561,026
Swarm   Counterparty   $1,378,357
Storjcoin X   Counterparty   $842,378
FoldingCoin   Counterparty   $423,143
LTBcoin   Counterparty   $40,577
APICoin   Mastercoin   $58,922

Total Bitcoin assets= $18,093,268 (not including the fact that almost all Bitcoin "assets" are held in private companies not including this list)

And again I spot flaws in your logic.

You are talking about marketshare, though it's not clear what market you mean. If it's global market, then you already was told that CMC doesn't include data from Asset Exchange et al., hence it can't be global market. If you are talking about market of centralized fiat exchanges then you already was told that this data is incorrect (Paycoin was referred as a proof of this claim, Ripple can be another example and, hehe, Bitcoin as yet another example).

Your turn.

I am getting tired.

You said Nxt is decreasing in mindshare. I disagreed. But it seems to already conceded this before so we are in agreement. So you believe Nxt is getting bigger in the real world, but decreasing in its market share in the pump-and-dump crypto world (if only in the short term)? And this is a bad thing?

I scrubbed the rest of my reply. I am happy to settle with you, I think I was arguing a point you had already accepted.

If Nxt keeps on growing in the real world, this is better than trying to keep a volatile percentage of the latest set of pump and dumps (that I have shown don't last) steady. Bitcoin dominates this percentage also so the metric is skewed/leveraged from the get go, they are all tiny numbers.

 In the long run, one guy/gal using and talking about Nxt in the real world is worth 10 in the cryptoworld who just buy, hoping for a pop. More value will flow from that usage than convincing speculators on BTT to buy to make our numbers look better.  


How can you say "Nxt is increasing mindshare worldwide" and "Nxt is becoming increasingly irrelevant" in the same post?  


I am starting to feel I am being trolled. But that was the reason you said you bumped this thread...


... so maybe I should have known.


I am going to take a break




You say marketcap is a bad measure but appear to accept that changes over time have merit. I have shown this supports Nxt in maintaining support over the long term of a year.

You say alexa supports you, I said it is only useful if you monitor it over time (as above). But you continue to rely on just a single snapshot. I wouldn't say this particularly supports either position. I would also like to see Nxt's stats at an equivalent of being 1-3 months out of the gate (this would be problematic due to different markets) but comparing a new excitable coin to one that has matured isn't a reasonable comparison if you are considering using web hits as a useful metric.

I say Nxt is growing, on many blockchain metrics, in a bear market. You seem to accept this.
 

I have stated the exact opposite multiple times suggesting that our whole ecosystem is growing so many coins are increasing in mindshare:


I was looking at the both the last 6 months and the last year(to address the OP).
As other have previously stated and I admitted we can both be right if we cherry pick the dates to compare price and market cap so lets not waste our time on that.

The point is that NxT is being surpassed in marketshare dropping from 4 to 8 or 9 in market cap. Despite all of the flaws with market cap , the data is supported by other facts like those same currencies that are surpassing have much higher traffic to both main sites within nxt. The evidence is all there to review and I have backed it all up with links and numbers.

Sure it is possible that paycoin may eventually fall off but there are 4-5 other currencies/assets that will shortly take its place above NxT. Nxt is becoming increasingly irrelevant.