I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too - page 7.

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: Daedelus on January 18, 2015, 10:51:07 AM

While all crypto is bootstrapping, I think it would be wise not to throw stones when we all live in glass houses.

The stones are and will be continued to be thrown at my own house. I am quite vocal about Bitcoins security problems, regardless of it remaining the most secure coin.

When judging the security of a coin there are many other aspects to consider such as the amount of peer review, the amount of nodes,
the amount of implementations and stacks, the amount of researchers auditing, the amount of developers, the total market cap which
incentivizes would be attackers from exploiting the currency, ect....

That response to the article has an apologist tone and while we don't know, and cannot possibly know there are 4-14 users controlling 50% of NxT stake there is good evidence to suggest this.

Quote from: Come-from-Beyond on January 18, 2015, 10:52:43 AM

The logic of this statements seems to be a little bit flawed. If I claim that Bitcoin is a bad investment and you claim the opposite then one of us will be right in 6 months. This doesn't mean that one of us is an expert and our opinion is worth anything. Do you see the point?

If you imply that Nxt will repeat the same trend then it's not backed by anything. More probably that 1 BTC will plummet that much that Nxt will be completely unpegged and will start climbing up on its own.

Your turn.

I will go further than that and suggest past market performance does not necessarily indicate future returns. For all we know NxT could topple all other coins in a month , extremely unlikely but hypothetically possible.

Come-from-Beyond

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 10:42:52 AM

4) I resurrected this thread precisely because I think it is good to review the historical facts and to indeed warn users that NxT isn't a recommended investment

The logic of this statements seems to be a little bit flawed. If I claim that Bitcoin is a bad investment and you claim the opposite then one of us will be right in 6 months. This doesn't mean that one of us is an expert and our opinion is worth anything. Do you see the point?

If you imply that Nxt will repeat the same trend then it's not backed by anything. More probably that 1 BTC will plummet that much that Nxt will be completely unpegged and will start climbing up on its own.

Your turn.

Daedelus

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inBitweTrust

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Quote from: achimsmile on January 18, 2015, 10:34:31 AM

I'm inclined to think that since you reopened this thread, are posting this (very subjective) article, and always stress the possible weaknesses of Nxt or PoS in general, even if they are very unprobable, that you want to scare users away from Nxt, even if it means promoting another (D)PoS system.

Why assume anything when I have been open and honest with my intentions from the get go.

Lets re-iterate:

1) I am biased towards Bitcoin and would suggest everyone stay away from all other alts at the moment
2) Of all the variations of PoS , I prefer TaPoS with weak subjectivity and would think that it is a good thing if a TaPoS layer is added to Bitcoin
3) I prefer Nxt PoS algo over Bitshares DPoS , although Bitshares does have some advantages as expressed in the article and vice versa.
4) I resurrected this thread precisely because I think it is good to review the historical facts and to indeed warn users that NxT isn't a recommended investment
5) I don't think NxT is a scam coin or pump and dump alt despite the questionable ICO, but the fact that between 4-14 users have as much as 50% stake is problematic and will hurt NxT in the future.

There is no hidden agenda. I will openly admit and discuss my intentions.

achimsmile

legendary

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I'm inclined to think that since you reopened this thread, are posting this (very subjective) article, and always stress the possible weaknesses of Nxt or PoS in general, even if they are very unprobable, that you want to scare users away from Nxt, even if it means promoting another (D)PoS system.

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: inBitweTrust on January 18, 2015, 09:42:09 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Why the hell do we need this old thread in here ? The ongoing fight between NxT and other groups are a joke... Possible Bitshares think people are stupid in here

Yes, here is an interesting article from Daniel Larimer:

http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/Decentralization-of-Nxt-vs-BitShares/

Bitcoin also has its own set of problems with decentralization with the centralization of mining and full nodes dropping off.

Hmm, I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve. What do you think about this article and why do you post it in a dead thread?

This thread isn't dead, I resuscitated it as a point in reflection that the OP made the right decision from an investment perspective as evidenced by the facts.

I am suggesting that many top crypto currencies including Bitcoin have problems with lack of decentralization. On topic - The fact that 60% of all blocks within NxT are produced by only 15 accounts is troubling.

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Why the hell do we need this old thread in here ? The ongoing fight between NxT and other groups are a joke... Possible Bitshares think people are stupid in here

Yes, here is an interesting article from Daniel Larimer:

http://bytemaster.bitshares.org/article/2015/01/13/Decentralization-of-Nxt-vs-BitShares/

Bitcoin also has its own set of problems with decentralization with the centralization of mining and full nodes dropping off.

Damelon

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Quote from: juicyjuice87 on January 18, 2015, 01:08:12 AM

Quote from: lophie on April 28, 2014, 01:34:24 PM

I just noticed the dilution. I am very disappointed. NXT has no future but as a SCAM coin because of this. It is gicing more trouble than what it is trying to fix.

I know your joking because no one can be this fucking stupid

Look at the post date Roll Eyes

Come-from-Beyond

legendary

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Quote from: juicyjuice87 on January 18, 2015, 01:08:12 AM

I know your joking because no one can be this fucking stupid

He was not joking. He sold his NXT right before the rise and now feels that all the others cooperated to scam him.

juicyjuice87

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Quote from: lophie on April 28, 2014, 01:34:24 PM

I just noticed the dilution. I am very disappointed. NXT has no future but as a SCAM coin because of this. It is gicing more trouble than what it is trying to fix.

I know your joking because no one can be this fucking stupid

jones_

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 07:57:15 PM

Quote from: Damelon on January 17, 2015, 07:50:35 PM

I can't say I think that is a bad thing Wink

Yes it is indeed a bad thing:
Look at what has infested our ecosystem within the top 10... 2 debt coins (Ripple/Stellar), a Meme coin (Doge) and a scam coin (Paycoin).

Despite languishing, at least Bitshares and Nxt have real developers and ingenuity behind their projects. You have to respect that.

The rest of our ecosystem has been overun by PoW cloudmining ponzi's and PoS ICO scams.

And those that aren't directly involved in the scams are fine with profiting off of them because hey, may as well make some money
off that affiliate program or day trading on the ignorance of the uninitiated. The whole ecosystem needs a colon cleansing.

its true that most the alt coins at the top are long term scams and short term scams, and mostly copy coins, but there are some good ones and original ideas. These will eventually be weeded out and only the good ones will remain.

nxt is not better or worse than bitcoin at least not at the moment, its just different, and to keep crypto moving forward we need lots of different.

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: Damelon on January 17, 2015, 07:50:35 PM

I can't say I think that is a bad thing Wink

Yes it is indeed a bad thing:
Look at what has infested our ecosystem within the top 10... 2 debt coins (Ripple/Stellar), a Meme coin (Doge) and a scam coin (Paycoin).

Despite languishing, at least Bitshares and Nxt have real developers and ingenuity behind their projects. You have to respect that.

The rest of our ecosystem has been overun by PoW cloudmining ponzi's and PoS ICO scams.

And those that aren't directly involved in the scams are fine with profiting off of them because hey, may as well make some money
off that affiliate program or day trading on the ignorance of the uninitiated. The whole ecosystem needs a colon cleansing.

Damelon

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 07:46:15 PM

Quote from: Damelon on January 17, 2015, 07:36:00 PM

Moving the goal posts in a discussion is not really nice.

You mentioned cap, I counter with cap.

You then introduce a new variable of mindshare, with which I can do nothing else but disagree.

Maybe here on bitcointalk, but the world of crypto is so much larger than BCT (or BTT for preference).

I was agreeing with you that if you look at the charts NxT isn't decreasing in value at all dates with respect to Bitcoin and
I was merely looking at the last 6 months before.

With regards to losing marketshare/mindshare I will again admit I was somewhat incorrect as losing market cap does indicate
a decrease in marketshare in our ecosystem while other currencies and assets take over, it can be misleading as the whole
crypto-ecosystem is growing including NxT. Thus Nxt is increasing mindshare worldwide, but decreasing marketshare
within crypto-currencies. Wink

I can't say I think that is a bad thing Wink

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: Damelon on January 17, 2015, 07:36:00 PM

Moving the goal posts in a discussion is not really nice.

You mentioned cap, I counter with cap.

You then introduce a new variable of mindshare, with which I can do nothing else but disagree.

Maybe here on bitcointalk, but the world of crypto is so much larger than BCT (or BTT for preference).

I was agreeing with you that if you look at the charts NxT isn't decreasing in value at all dates with respect to Bitcoin and
I was merely looking at the last 6 months before.

With regards to losing marketshare/mindshare I will again admit I was somewhat incorrect as losing market cap does indicate
a decrease in marketshare in our ecosystem while other currencies and assets take over, it can be misleading as the whole
crypto-ecosystem is growing including NxT. Thus Nxt is increasing mindshare worldwide, but decreasing marketshare
within crypto-currencies. Wink

Damelon

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 07:28:14 PM

Quote from: Damelon on January 17, 2015, 07:13:47 PM

Price of Nxt since september (in BTC) has dropped about 33%. If calculated from December 2013, it's about the same.
The cap dropped together with BTC.
The drop from 3 to 8 or 9 also is due to the rise of both XRP and BTS and Stellar.

So instead of dropping, we've been overtaken, which is something different. Your explanation didn't allow for the new players in the top 10.

Otherwise, referring to the post above.

I suppose we can both cherry pick dates. So NxT is either languishing or capitulating depending upon the date selected in relation to BTC.
Dropping in market cap is a sign of another type of death, losing market/mindshare which is worse than price.

Moving the goal posts in a discussion is not really nice.

You mentioned cap, I counter with cap.

You then introduce a new variable of mindshare, with which I can do nothing else but disagree.

Maybe here on bitcointalk, but the world of crypto is so much larger than BCT (or BTT for preference).

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: Damelon on January 17, 2015, 07:13:47 PM

Price of Nxt since september (in BTC) has dropped about 33%. If calculated from December 2013, it's about the same.
The cap dropped together with BTC.
The drop from 3 to 8 or 9 also is due to the rise of both XRP and BTS and Stellar.

So instead of dropping, we've been overtaken, which is something different. Your explanation didn't allow for the new players in the top 10.

Otherwise, referring to the post above.

I suppose we can both cherry pick dates. So NxT is either languishing or capitulating depending upon the date selected in relation to BTC.
Dropping in market cap is a sign of another type of death, losing market/mindshare which is worse than price.

Quote from: Daedelus on January 17, 2015, 07:24:24 PM

I notice you say alt users and not Nxt users...So you have tomorrow's dead thread already lined up for resurrection then? Cheesy

Sure, I'll probably attack paycoin some more, and attack some bitcoin business more. No rest for the wicked , eh?

Daedelus

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Quote from: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 07:01:29 PM

Quote from: Daedelus on January 17, 2015, 06:58:47 PM

Quote from: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 04:58:21 PM

...I'm certainly not a PoW ideologue.

I don't believe you Cheesy

Would you like some suggestions of other old threads to dig up for tomorrow? Grin

That is why I have been advocating for a TaPoS security layer added to bitcoin over many threads and creating new
threads questioning 100% PoW in Bitcoin like this: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/changes-to-the-alogrithm-prohibited-or-disputed-873646 Huh

I don't know. Doing what you can to keep POW going? Wink

Quote from: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 07:17:25 PM

There has been some push back because of the increasing amount of trolls attacking this forum with new accounts. There are somethings I like about NxT but I do tend to get annoyed that many alt users have been trolling our sections and attacking Bitcoin. I haven't gone so far as to repaying in kind on their boards but have started to push back here.

I notice you say alt users and not Nxt users...So you have tomorrow's dead thread already lined up for resurrection then? Cheesy

inBitweTrust

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Quote from: alani123 on January 17, 2015, 07:00:18 PM

Doesn't it seem a bit suspicious that the mass influx of people praising NXT has finally faded away? I don't know what to make of it but I think that it's quite obvious how we went from lots of people praising NXT to this. Did the developers stop paying the shills or something? Roll Eyes

They are still here and regularly create new threads in the discussion section or resurect old threads criticing Bitcoin. They are just more subtle in their approach now talking about the insecurities of Bitcoin , the wastefulness of mining , the problem with inflation, ect...

Quote from: Daedelus on January 17, 2015, 07:12:19 PM

I have noticed a couple of guys pushing this "Nxt is dying" vibe over the last day or so. Undecided

. The facts are that people like Nxt and people use it. The blockchain data and the standard 100+ people online at nxtforum.org supports this. Open your eyes Grin

There has been some push back because of the increasing amount of trolls attacking this forum with new accounts. There are somethings I like about NxT but I do tend to get annoyed that many alt users have been trolling our sections and attacking Bitcoin. I haven't gone so far as to repaying in kind on their boards but have started to push back here.

Damelon

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Quote from: alani123 on January 17, 2015, 07:00:18 PM

Doesn't it seem a bit suspicious that the mass influx of people praising NXT has finally faded away? I don't know what to make of it but I think that it's quite obvious how we went from lots of people praising NXT to this. Did the developers stop paying the shills or something? Roll Eyes

Nope. Most decided (like a lot of other communities) that BCT has a tendency to be vicious even when not warranted and left.

Good for all.

A lot still hang around and drop in on discussions that seem remotely civil and otherwise not. No use expending energy on people who have made up their minds already.

Quote from: inBitweTrust on January 17, 2015, 07:01:29 PM

Bitcoin is capitulating as well, Nxt at an accelerated rate(dropping from 3rd in market cap to 8 or 9th:

http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/nxt/

Keep in mind the price line is in relation to BTC.

Discounting newly pumped ICOs, not all coins are capitulating. Much to my chagrin Ripple is growing in value.

Price of Nxt since september (in BTC) has dropped about 33%. If calculated from December 2013, it's about the same.
The cap dropped together with BTC.
The drop from 3 to 8 or 9 also is due to the rise of both XRP and BTS and Stellar.

So instead of dropping, we've been overtaken, which is something different. Your explanation didn't allow for the new players in the top 10.

Otherwise, referring to the post above.

Daedelus

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Quote from: alani123 on January 17, 2015, 07:00:18 PM

Doesn't it seem a bit suspicious that the mass influx of people praising NXT has finally faded away? I don't know what to make of it but I think that it's quite obvious how we went from lots of people praising NXT to this. Did the developers stop paying the shills or something? Roll Eyes

They faded away in March 2014... when nxtforum.org was launched. And we all went over there after creating the biggest altcoin thread bitcointalk had ever seen.

Whether you like it or not, Nxt is being adopted. And used.

Quote from: Daedelus on January 15, 2015, 01:24:57 PM

The blockchain data shows ever increasing adoption, I don't think anybody expected Bitcoin levels of transactions after just 1 year. But they are increasing.

https://nxtblocks.info/#section/blockexplorer_charts

I am using May 2014 as that was the launch of the first major feature users could use, Asset Exchange.

Transactions per day has gone up more than ten fold.

May 14: 200 - 500 transactions per day
Jan 15: 5500 - 7000 transactions per day

The growing steepness of the curve in Cumulative transactions per day shows how transactions are increasing at a faster and faster rate.

With the transactions per day increasing, the Average transactions per block per day is also rising, which is good for forgers.

May 14: 0.3 - 0.6 transactions per block per day
Jan 15: 8 - 11 transactions per block per day

No crypto shows signs of wide adoption (even Bitcoin). Nxt does show positive, concrete signs of growing adoption and at an ever increasing rate. Something must be going right Grin

I have noticed a couple of guys pushing this "Nxt is dying" vibe over the last day or so. Undecided

. The facts are that people like Nxt and people use it. The blockchain data and the standard 100+ people online at nxtforum.org supports this. Open your eyes Grin

Topic: I'm dumping Nxt and here's why you should too - page 7. (Read 21319 times)