Topic: is butterfly labs mining with those ASICs at the moment? - page 10. (Read 37508 times)

Inaba.  I have valid concerns and others have the same take as I do.  (think about the PM traffic going around taking about both BFL developments)

Are we all 'bad customers' and we all need a refund since what customers think really can be a PITA sometimes?  Do we all "hate BFL" since we voice our concerns?


I really can't dignify your response any further.  It's just silly - every single point. 

Thanks, you're right, vote with your BTC! 

1) That wasn't a straw man, I was condensing and restating his desires so far.  If they are incorrect, I wait for him to correct me and describe how what I've said is incorrect.
2) It's not, however, when there's an irate, irrational customer, it's best to fire them.  It costs more to deal with problem customers than the profit you make, so it makes more economic sense to part ways from a business perspective.  If people are unhappy, we will gladly issue a refund, because it takes far more time and effort to deal with the constant stream of complaints, most being imaginary or blown out of proportion, than it does to just refund the money and move on.  When the rare instance comes along with the complaint is legitimate and scaled properly, we are glad to deal with that.

So unfortunately, in cases like these, all the "money we'll be making" is less than all the money we'll be losing trying to satisfy people who just can't be satisfied, and believe me, there are a lot of them on this forum.

Huh, I never considered the fact that even if everyone canceled, we would still have the hashing power, but you're right.  That thought does not sit well with me though, I definitely do not want BFL or any single entity to have that much hashing power under one roof, jeez.  That would be a nightmare.

You can't win in a flame war Inaba. Please take a more measured response and work on the "town hall" thing that has been setup.

So let me get this straight, just so we are clear:

1. You disagree with our non-existent policy to mine on main net with the ASICs we are not currently mining on main net with.
2. You hate BFL and everything we do because we are somehow "shady and dishonest"
3. I offer you a refund, but you don't want one because you
4. Want to sell your place in line to someone else, so you can profit on the loss of someone else buying your place in a supposedly shady company that you hate.

Riiighhhhtt... I guess that morality of yours just goes right out the window when it comes to your profit motive, huh? 

So which is it, are you greedy and only looking out for yourself or are you altruistic and really believe what you say?  If the latter, cancel your orders, vote with your dollars!  If the former, sell your place in line or keep them.  Either you believe what you say and you'll cancel or you are trolling, which is it?  I'm going to guess you aren't going to cancel your orders, your greed will win in the end.

Your questions and concerns would be an excellent addition to scary-eyed-batman's "town hall" list.

This is a glossing over of the matters at hand.

So, it's ok for BFL to lack transparency, so that it's easier to perpetrate activities that the mining community would frown upon?  Interesting.  So very ethical of you.  That's exactly the kind of community focused company policy I enjoy.  Do you realize that every BFL customer made a purchase decision under the false pretense that BFL would not be participating in the mining of bitcoins?



That is an amazing mis-characterization of my concerns.  A politically crafty statement to redirect attention from BFL misleading the community early on and falsely suggesting that it is technically, or practically, impossible to QC BFL units without impacting main-net.


Protecting Bitcoin means you need to QC - every unit for 24 hours - on main-net....  really?


Sinking pretty low eh?


Re:  Returns.  I wouldn't be so stupid to reveal my orders to you and not auction them off.  I'm def considering it.
Not for this, but since your glorious leader likes to scam old people in the mail.




 

Here's a thought: Just use a mining client which allows you to filter the difficulty of blocks as you generate them. Just artificially mine at a higher difficulty (e.g. 100 fold) than the main network. That means that you throw blocks away which meet the network target, but not your own target.
Simple yet efficient. Also works on the test net.

That would be a comprise solution. You forfeit some of the profits, but you get to mine on the main network...

I specifically stated "customer hardware". I also think they need to disclose if they will be mining also.

Cablepair and Nzhang have been upfront about this.

Just so we're clear on this: cablepair and ngzhang should not mine bitcoins at all.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/high-efficiency-fpga-asic-bitcoin-mining-devices-httpsbtcfpgacom-79637
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/avalon-asic-announcement-pre-order-pre-order-over-project-started-110090

Stop justifying their actions. This "no big deal" attitude is what has fostered the majority of the scams on here.

The owner of the company is a convicted felon on counts of FRAUD.

It matters to everyone who buys their product, period.

Difficulty rising for two weeks is bullshit and that's not the point. You have bought their products, in effect they are competing against YOU.

You and everyone else who pre-funded their product with limited or no recourse should at least expect to get your stuff quickly and without competition from your supplier.

How about the fact that there will only ever be 21 million coins ? You don't think it matters that they will have mined thousands of those with your hardware ?

Screw difficulty, the fact is you and everyone else can NEVER mine those coins.

Testing on the main net only reduces customer profits for a MAXIMUM of 14 days, and in reality it's much lower than that. After 2 weeks of mining, the difficulty gets recalculated, and the BFL testing from 2 weeks before will have no further affect on your profits.

Testing on the main net is bullshit and everyone knows it.

It has been clearly stated many times that testing could be done easily on a variety of testing platforms which would not effect the main net or increase difficulty.

You don't compete against your customers in ANY business, period. It is illegal and unethical.

Under NO circumstances should any hardware vendor be mining bitcoins for profit with customer hardware. There is NO excuse for this period.

It is also unethical for someone who works for said company to be competing against the customers of that company.

Seems to be back to normal.

next dif 2796746.67390 13 days. Yesterday it said next dif 38*****.**.

I don't think it's legal to throw those in the garbage in any of the 50 states lol.

I still find it surprising that even if BFL would in the future run every customer's card for 24 hours and that makes like $15 or something so it knocks some price off the card since BFL would be making money and then you receive a fully tested and much more likely to work product and use it to mine for the other 364 days of the year and you still have a problem with that?  That's just dumb.

What I'd have a problem with is a "buy one get one me" deal where they actually cost $75 to produce so for every one BFL sells you, they buy themselves one and run it and basically mine against you forever with your own money I have a feeling they wouldn't do that, lol.

for some reason I was under impression that BFL would not disrupt network difficulty with customer's hardware (testing), I think someone from BFL mentioned it in one of threads few month ago.

For burn-in testing please consider setting up alternative test environment. 

To repeat, for the cheap seats:
     testnet-in-a-box
     http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/testnet-in-a-box/

testnet-in-a-box is a simple setup that provides a two-node network suitable for fully validated, off-network testing.  testnet-in-a-box testing is fully private, and will not disrupt mainnet and or testnet.

Further, note that testnet has special rules just in case a miner blasts the difficulty through the roof, then disappears:

For BFL, testnet-in-a-box would provide validity testing without disrupting any public network.

+1


Then again their may be others that will put their systems on main-net with out us ever knowing.

However if you were one of the first to purchase your SC's using BTC valued at 4.6 - 6.4 USD then this could be a slap in the face...

+1 or if you must.... the 1T units consider contacting the recipient of those units and use their credentials for that 24hr period

However...

Please gentlemen can we please cut the bullshit?

I mean seriously, this argument is pointless.

If BFL Is mining with ASICs on main-net its for one reason and one reason only.

To make an incredible profit.

It would be very simple for someone to make an alternate "testnet"

that way BFL could test their asics without disrupting the difficulty of main-net or test-net.


However it would be INCREDIBLY profitable for someone like BFL to "test" ASICs on main-net and this is the reason they would do so.