I would not say that it doesn't make sense until an ASIC is proven to exist.
They better! They have $1 mil in pre-orders for them, lol.
I don't think it's up to me saying how much he has now. I do know though. 
:-O
Topic: is butterfly labs mining with those ASICs at the moment? - page 7. (Read 37508 times)
They better! They have $1 mil in pre-orders for them, lol.
:-O
I'm not sure I follow that one. Spending less on electricity and honestly less on hardware too wouldn't make us make less money. It makes us make more money! Yeah, it'll even out again most likely but not for a while.
For the record, BFL says they're not using preorder money to fund their research and development or whatever and that it's all investor money. It is kinda a "sure thing" in the bitcoin world that the product will come on and a working prototype would convince anyone to invest heavily in it. But, quite a lot of investors heard only negative things about bitcoins and won't touch anything related to it. I'm not sure I necessarily believe them. Also, anyone background checking their CEO would back off pretty quickly, lol.
For the record, BFL says they're not using preorder money to fund their research and development or whatever and that it's all investor money. It is kinda a "sure thing" in the bitcoin world that the product will come on and a working prototype would convince anyone to invest heavily in it. But, quite a lot of investors heard only negative things about bitcoins and won't touch anything related to it. I'm not sure I necessarily believe them. Also, anyone background checking their CEO would back off pretty quickly, lol.
its a good business model...here preorder my product and basically fund ME so that i can use to gain much of the bitcoin market share and profit more than you until I then sell you the product where you wont' be able to profit as much as I just did
It's not LOGICAL to just keep the project and mine and not sell it. First off you needed the funding to build, and people want the product and a good experience to gain reputation (future profit) for the company
Second, other organizations are building simliar products and could do the same thing; if these organizations kept to themself why would us making less and less money stay on bitcoin? It would be just a big war between big money and implode on itself when the average (computer intelligent right now) person drops out of the bitcoin market
It's not LOGICAL to just keep the project and mine and not sell it. First off you needed the funding to build, and people want the product and a good experience to gain reputation (future profit) for the company
Second, other organizations are building simliar products and could do the same thing; if these organizations kept to themself why would us making less and less money stay on bitcoin? It would be just a big war between big money and implode on itself when the average (computer intelligent right now) person drops out of the bitcoin market
Well wtf is wrong with their software's light settings then? lol. Also, I guess 1 dumbass (now that I remember, I think it was reeses aka some trolltard who posted it originally). For the record, I do believe someone else posted that claiming it was a real pic before I did and since it doesn't look obviously 3d, I assumed it was. Kinda hard to tell when the item is all 1 color and the background is all 1 color 
Why does EVERYONE say it's hovering?! rofl. I threw it into photoshop and enhanced all shadows and gradients in the background and under the object. It's 2 sources of lighting, at seemingly standard angles for a shot like this in a studio. The backdrop suggests a somewhat professional material in a somewhat not so professional arrangement. It swoops up in an arc from the ground so there's no background crease visible but the right side shadowing suggests it was either hastily made or was of insufficient size. In other words...
http://www.justhungry.com/files/images/studio_in_a_box.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2459/3948479048_db827e4091.jpg
But one that's actually good would have been more like:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/107/0/d/Studio_Backdrop_good_version_by_Mr_Lobo.png
and had zero shadowing whatsoever in the background other than shadows cast by the object itself.
http://www.justhungry.com/files/images/studio_in_a_box.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2459/3948479048_db827e4091.jpg
But one that's actually good would have been more like:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/107/0/d/Studio_Backdrop_good_version_by_Mr_Lobo.png
and had zero shadowing whatsoever in the background other than shadows cast by the object itself.
Huh... that is one of our design renderings from the case manufacturer, though I hadn't seen an all black one yet. I was initially against all black, but we had a discussion today about the iPhone's gunmetal black (iPhone 5) so I think someone was getting a bit antsy.
That's actually intended to be all metal BTW, not plastic.
That's actually intended to be all metal BTW, not plastic.
Why does EVERYONE say it's hovering?! rofl. I threw it into photoshop and enhanced all shadows and gradients in the background and under the object. It's 2 sources of lighting, at seemingly standard angles for a shot like this in a studio. The backdrop suggests a somewhat professional material in a somewhat not so professional arrangement. It swoops up in an arc from the ground so there's no background crease visible but the right side shadowing suggests it was either hastily made or was of insufficient size. In other words...
http://www.justhungry.com/files/images/studio_in_a_box.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2459/3948479048_db827e4091.jpg
But one that's actually good would have been more like:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/107/0/d/Studio_Backdrop_good_version_by_Mr_Lobo.png
and had zero shadowing whatsoever in the background other than shadows cast by the object itself.
Ermm... it's a computer rendering, not a real picture. http://www.justhungry.com/files/images/studio_in_a_box.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2459/3948479048_db827e4091.jpg
But one that's actually good would have been more like:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/107/0/d/Studio_Backdrop_good_version_by_Mr_Lobo.png
and had zero shadowing whatsoever in the background other than shadows cast by the object itself.
Who are you calling a dumbass?
Oh, wait.
Oh, wait.
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Why does EVERYONE say it's hovering?! rofl. I threw it into photoshop and enhanced all shadows and gradients in the background and under the object. It's 2 sources of lighting, at seemingly standard angles for a shot like this in a studio. The backdrop suggests a somewhat professional material in a somewhat not so professional arrangement. It swoops up in an arc from the ground so there's no background crease visible but the right side shadowing suggests it was either hastily made or was of insufficient size. In other words...
http://www.justhungry.com/files/images/studio_in_a_box.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2459/3948479048_db827e4091.jpg
But one that's actually good would have been more like:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/107/0/d/Studio_Backdrop_good_version_by_Mr_Lobo.png
and had zero shadowing whatsoever in the background other than shadows cast by the object itself.
http://www.justhungry.com/files/images/studio_in_a_box.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2459/3948479048_db827e4091.jpg
But one that's actually good would have been more like:
http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/107/0/d/Studio_Backdrop_good_version_by_Mr_Lobo.png
and had zero shadowing whatsoever in the background other than shadows cast by the object itself.
It's so buried on giant threads, I should just make it my sig, lol. For the record, this is from BFL's own Facebook page, lol. But I assume most of you are as smart as me and don't use Facebook.
Jalapeno
Jalapeno
I like how they double as hoverboards.
It's so buried on giant threads, I should just make it my sig, lol. For the record, this is from BFL's own Facebook page, lol. But I assume most of you are as smart as me and don't use Facebook.
Jalapeno
And for the record, a fake that some dumbass posted:
And to get you 100% caught up, this is a pic of butterfly labs (the made up animals, not the company, lol)
Jalapeno
And for the record, a fake that some dumbass posted:
And to get you 100% caught up, this is a pic of butterfly labs
(the made up animals, not the company, lol) They have pics of the units and I don't think they're empty chassis.
Where? All I've seen are renders.
@OP/Desolator, I think it's definitely time you edit this FUDdy title. !!!
They have pics of the units and I don't think they're empty chassis. If the title wasn't true when I posted it, it is now or will be soon, lol. I mean come on, they're at least going to run 1! The original premise probably was inaccurate though, lol, so I altered it. Btw nobody ever was able to truly explain the giant jump in mining activity during a time period when everyone knows ASICs are coming out so nobody in investing in new mining hardware. It simply does not make sense and that seemed like the most logical conclusion (that BFL was testing some ASICs).
@Inaba: You really have to clarify this point, otherwise expect someone to sue BFL about this point.
Wow you guy like to make drama out of nothing. "BFL to be sued over profiting from QC ?" OMG !This is a friendly reminder to BFL to update the terms and pacify their customer base. Otherwise the PR disaster may develop into a financial one...
...
The fact is: With selling the units as "pre-orders" the units technically belong to the customer at all times (?, needs to be confirmed by a lawyer). BFL is offering a quality control before the unit ships. The problem is that the unit creates profit during that time: Who is the rightful owner of this profit? The owner of the hardware (customer) or the person who operates it (BFL)?
@Inaba: You really have to clarify this point, otherwise expect someone to sue BFL about this point.
...
Wow you guy like to make drama out of nothing. "BFL to be sued over profiting from QC ?" OMG !The fact is: With selling the units as "pre-orders" the units technically belong to the customer at all times (?, needs to be confirmed by a lawyer). BFL is offering a quality control before the unit ships. The problem is that the unit creates profit during that time: Who is the rightful owner of this profit? The owner of the hardware (customer) or the person who operates it (BFL)?
@Inaba: You really have to clarify this point, otherwise expect someone to sue BFL about this point.
...
The thing is ; No-matter how many good advices you give them on how to QC their products fairly you'd have no way of enforcing said policy.
- If enough customer pledge on canceling their orders based of this uncertainty and BFL think they would make more money by allowing an independent 3rd party inspector to survey their operations. Then chance are they might do so and as a customer we might even want to finance it.
(Remember how Inaba was sent to report on our collective behalf ?) - Another scenario is that out of 22 employee we could offer a collective bounty for any of them to anonymously release proof of private mining with customer's hardware. (I herein pledge 10 btc)
- It's also possible that BFL wouldn't risk bad PR if they foresaw creating next generation products. (the world doesn't end at ~100nm process)
- Or we might as well show some trust in their good faith.
I showed them my trust by pre-ordering and I expect to be respected in return.
Unfortunately, I think not spreading FUD is the cheapest thing I can afford to protect my investment.
@OP/Desolator, I think it's definitely time you edit this FUDdy title. !!!
Anyway, since people keep being lazy about reading, perhaps you should put underneath your sig pic "mining with other people's FPGA products for them pending an upgrade to ASIC" or something. That would explain that they're not ASICs and it's not your personally owned hardware.
Colocation. Easily enough stated.
The fact is: With selling the units as "pre-orders" the units technically belong to the customer at all times (?, needs to be confirmed by a lawyer). BFL is offering a quality control before the unit ships. The problem is that the unit creates profit during that time: Who is the rightful owner of this profit? The owner of the hardware (customer) or the person who operates it (BFL)?
Law around pre-orders is a real pain in the ass in the USA. It varies by state, can easily cross the line into fraud (dun dun DUNNNN), and is illegal under certain circumstances.
Generally, you don't "own" the product in a pre-order. You can ask for a refund under the terms of the agreement (i.e., you might be hosed if you pre-ordered a 2014 Ferrari "Enzo+" in Hello Kitty trim and they just finished the paint and stitch work) but you are not automatically entitled to interest or other consideration.
When the product exists, is not configured to order, and you are placing an order for that product, then the FTC is much more specific. We have to deal with a 30-day rule (you may see this when pre-ordering or ordering items from Amazon that have become delayed) where you are asked if you still want the product. We are then required to make contact and update the expected shipping date, again giving you the opportunity to cancel your order and receive a refund.
The FTC has decent pages on this now. In general, the FTC sites are good to peruse from time to time if you engage in any commerce, especially on-line.
http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre28.shtm
Anyway, since people keep being lazy about reading, perhaps you should put underneath your sig pic "mining with other people's FPGA products for them pending an upgrade to ASIC" or something. That would explain that they're not ASICs and it's not your personally owned hardware.
+1which reminds me of the point I was making earlier about transfer of ownership:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1207708
I don't envy for BFL having to establish policies as they go. It's a very dynamic business right now. The whole premine thing is a PR disaster, because customers have the wrong expectations and BFL was not clear about it from the start (as opposed to at least one competitor).
The fact is: With selling the units as "pre-orders" the units technically belong to the customer at all times (?, needs to be confirmed by a lawyer). BFL is offering a quality control before the unit ships. The problem is that the unit creates profit during that time: Who is the rightful owner of this profit? The owner of the hardware (customer) or the person who operates it (BFL)?
@Inaba: You really have to clarify this point, otherwise expect someone to sue BFL about this point.
ADDENDUM: Maybe if BFL pools the profits from the quality control and does a payback to the customers (after substracting e.g. 20% management fee & electricity) they won't be as mad about it (you using the units to generate profits...)
THIS IS BITCOINTALK.ORG. WE'RE ALL ANGRY ALL THE TIME! RAWR! lol.
Anyway, since people keep being lazy about reading, perhaps you should put underneath your sig pic "mining with other people's FPGA products for them pending an upgrade to ASIC" or something. That would explain that they're not ASICs and it's not your personally owned hardware.
Anyway, since people keep being lazy about reading, perhaps you should put underneath your sig pic "mining with other people's FPGA products for them pending an upgrade to ASIC" or something. That would explain that they're not ASICs and it's not your personally owned hardware.
Who's angry?
Please stop spreading false information nedbert. I believe *you* believe what you're writing, but it's demonstrably false to anyone that is capable of searching the forums beyond the one post you quote over and over from a year ago. Additionally, I never said "we cannot use test-net at all - in any form - due to technical challenges." - that is you making false statements and attempting to attribute them to me.
False.
False.
False.
Also false, but only because it's ludicrous to conflate "discredit" with "We will be happy to refund your money if you want a refund."
If you believe any of your above falsehoods to be true, please back them up with more than just a single post from a year ago by somebody else (not me).
*EDIT*
I guess that morality flew right out the window (I knew your bitching about morality was all talk and no substance): https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1210649
Quote
BFL unilaterally decided to mine main-net while all prior community communications stated they would not.
False.
Quote
BFL did not openly disclose QC activities on main-net at the point they decided that's what they were going to do. This goes for both FPGA and ASIC.
False.
Quote
BFL has attempted to defend their position of QC with main-net using false technical arguments and convenient omission of well known facts. "We've been asked by dev's not to use test-net." read: we cannot use test-net at all - in any form - due to technical challenges. False.
False.
Quote
BFL has attempted to discredit customers who voice their displeasure on these issues. Terms used like 'bad customer' 'bfl hater' 'irate/irrational' 'if you don't like please go elsewhere with your business.'
Also false, but only because it's ludicrous to conflate "discredit" with "We will be happy to refund your money if you want a refund."
If you believe any of your above falsehoods to be true, please back them up with more than just a single post from a year ago by somebody else (not me).
*EDIT*
I guess that morality flew right out the window (I knew your bitching about morality was all talk and no substance): https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1210649
Probably time for you to take a forum timeout, as this is just going to hose your weekend. As it stands, you aren't doing your company any favors by posting this stuff while angry.
*EDIT*
I guess that morality flew right out the window (I knew your bitching about morality was all talk and no substance): https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1210649
I guess if you equate selling something on the open market to deceiving customers I suppose that works.
warped logic is warped.
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