Is taxation theft? - page 38. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Elwar

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Viva Ut Vivas

Quote from: PeterTheGrape on May 30, 2017, 07:47:48 PM

Quote from: Elwar on May 30, 2017, 07:00:32 PM

The answer from the theft sympathisers is always "look at all the wonderful things you get from those tax dollars".

They will always spin the conversation away from the fact that the money was taken without consent.

I will flatly say, I want free education for all. I want everyone to have food. I want everyone to have free clothing and housing. That would be wonderful. But that's not what we were talking about was it? We were talking about our current ancient system of getting funds which involves one party forcefully taking from another party without their consent. Until that is fixed then there is no reason to talk about the free ponies and rainbows.

That's all nice, but do you not want schools and roads? Most people agree the system is administered poorly, and that a person has no choice but to pay taxes according to their geographic location, but what are you talking about with ponies and rainbows? You sound like you're running for office, a lot of empty rhetoric with no sense. Most people, the vast majority, acquiesce because the government uses terror tactics to enforce compliance. But terror tactics or not, some services are necessary in crowded places.

Perhaps you missed the part where I said I wanted free education for all. Yes. I would also love some high technology smart roads that charge our cars as we drive and navigate for us. Free cars for everyone would be great too.

But that does not negate the fact that the government is taking peoples' money without their consent. Let's address this morally outdated approach of funding things first. Then figure out all of the free stuff we both want people to have.

BADecker

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Quote from: PeterTheGrape on May 30, 2017, 07:47:48 PM

Quote from: Elwar on May 30, 2017, 07:00:32 PM

The answer from the theft sympathisers is always "look at all the wonderful things you get from those tax dollars".

They will always spin the conversation away from the fact that the money was taken without consent.

I will flatly say, I want free education for all. I want everyone to have food. I want everyone to have free clothing and housing. That would be wonderful. But that's not what we were talking about was it? We were talking about our current ancient system of getting funds which involves one party forcefully taking from another party without their consent. Until that is fixed then there is no reason to talk about the free ponies and rainbows.

That's all nice, but do you not want schools and roads? Most people agree the system is administered poorly, and that a person has no choice but to pay taxes according to their geographic location, but what are you talking about with ponies and rainbows? You sound like you're running for office, a lot of empty rhetoric with no sense. Most people, the vast majority, acquiesce because the government uses terror tactics to enforce compliance. But terror tactics or not, some services are necessary in crowded places.

Home schooling and 100% toll roads.

Without tax, people could afford to let the wife/husband stay home and school the kids

Rights of way have been built into law for thousands of years, one way or another. Get your stupid highway off the rights of way so that people don't have to use them to get from point A to point B.

Let people buy what they want. Don't force them to pay for something they don't want.

Cool

PeterTheGrape

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Quote from: Elwar on May 30, 2017, 07:00:32 PM

The answer from the theft sympathisers is always "look at all the wonderful things you get from those tax dollars".

They will always spin the conversation away from the fact that the money was taken without consent.

I will flatly say, I want free education for all. I want everyone to have food. I want everyone to have free clothing and housing. That would be wonderful. But that's not what we were talking about was it? We were talking about our current ancient system of getting funds which involves one party forcefully taking from another party without their consent. Until that is fixed then there is no reason to talk about the free ponies and rainbows.

That's all nice, but do you not want schools and roads? Most people agree the system is administered poorly, and that a person has no choice but to pay taxes according to their geographic location, but what are you talking about with ponies and rainbows? You sound like you're running for office, a lot of empty rhetoric with no sense. Most people, the vast majority, acquiesce because the government uses terror tactics to enforce compliance. But terror tactics or not, some services are necessary in crowded places.

Elwar

legendary

Activity: 3598

Merit: 2386

Viva Ut Vivas

The answer from the theft sympathisers is always "look at all the wonderful things you get from those tax dollars".

They will always spin the conversation away from the fact that the money was taken without consent.

I will flatly say, I want free education for all. I want everyone to have food. I want everyone to have free clothing and housing. That would be wonderful. But that's not what we were talking about was it? We were talking about our current ancient system of getting funds which involves one party forcefully taking from another party without their consent. Until that is fixed then there is no reason to talk about the free ponies and rainbows.

PeterTheGrape

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Quote from: BADecker on May 30, 2017, 01:50:34 PM

...

But when someone formally states that he is not part of the ocnsensus, what then? Execute him for not being one of the group? What about freedom?

Cool

There is no consensus in gang force, so it is irrelevant.

If government ever returns to its proper function of allowing consensus projects, then you can ask your question.

darkangel11

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Don't let others control your BTC -> self custody

Quote from: PeterTheGrape on May 28, 2017, 04:17:33 PM

Quote from: darkangel11 on May 28, 2017, 03:52:48 PM

Quote from: Lancusters on May 24, 2017, 05:21:30 PM

...
In your example there is one error. When he collected money from all and built a powerhouse that everyone who gave money for its construction must receive electricity for free. In our life we sell electricity. It turns out we're paying twice. And the income goes into someone else's pocket.

Only if you're taking it literally. This doesn't have to be a power plant, but a bus service that will take their kids to school every day, a teacher that will teach these kids in a classroom, which is much cheaper than private tutoring, street lamps, pavements, emergency services... All those things are provided and maintained with taxes.

But the question isn't really about 0.0001% of taxes spent on streetlights, it is about the high percentage spent on 'defense', housing marijuana smokers and the mentally ill in prisons, etc.

The solution is a crypto based economy that involves consensus spending, with smarter people individually having an edge to insert occasional checks and balances, rather than gangs of power crazy bureaucrats running amok.

The trillions wasted on nonsense could easily be diverted or redirected to science and space programs that would solve a lot of problems at once. The price would be shifted to mass casualties that would be involved in a space program. A better path.

The concept of taxes existed for centuries and is good. These lights, roads and bridges unfortunately come from the same source - your pocket. Sure we'd all like it to be spent on stuff we need like medical research, but that's a different thing. Some countries like the USA are leaders in wasting money on arms, and some are not, it depends on the government.

BADecker

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Quote from: PeterTheGrape on May 30, 2017, 01:48:22 PM

Quote from: PancherBitCoin on May 30, 2017, 11:39:00 AM

Quote from: BADecker on May 30, 2017, 08:54:32 AM

Quote from: seo11 on May 30, 2017, 01:48:33 AM

In addition, paying tax is a responsibility to each of the citizens in a particular country inorder to contribute something to its growth which not just you but everyone will also benefit from it. It is true that those who are handling taxes are the ones who committed theft but not the tax itself. Just think about the roads, the facilities and other that have been made possible through taxes that benefits you and others either directly or indirectly is a proof that in order for a country to survuve and improve itself it needs tax by the help of its people.

That's why it is beneficial to not be a citizen of a country. Simply live on the land. Being domeciled on the land isn't even residing in the country.

Cool

This is a very interesting idea. And in some cases it is worthwhile to heed that you get rid of the citizenship of some country in order not to pay taxes. But you are in one little error and this is what if a person without citizenship wants to have some business and he will still need to register and unambiguously pay the tax, and a simple person will simply lose some of the conclusions that he can get in the country having citizenship. I am sure that many emigrants who moved to a permanent place of residence, for example, in the United States of America and obtained citizenship, very much feel all the privileges that give them this status a country not only inside the country But also abroad.

Ideally, and what most people with a good education hope for, is a country that is minimally intrusive.

You are right that Americans have enjoyed some benefits abroad that are denied people in other countries. Likewise, a soldier can say he enjoys the benefit of commiting rapes, or a bank executive can say he enjoys the benefit of having secret information about business that allows extra profit. Always putting one person up and another down, you will find that the one who is up will accept the benefits and ignore the one who is down, or find a means to justify it.

Groups, nations, are best built on consensus. Agreement is informal but everybody knows the facts. This degrades into a false consensus built on political laws, clever 'leaders' etc, until finally you have not a group built on consensus, but a gang of people who encourage predation and which draws predatory types to enjoy membership in the gang.

But when someone formally states that he is not part of the ocnsensus, what then? Execute him for not being one of the group? What about freedom?

Cool

PeterTheGrape

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Quote from: PancherBitCoin on May 30, 2017, 11:39:00 AM

Quote from: BADecker on May 30, 2017, 08:54:32 AM

Quote from: seo11 on May 30, 2017, 01:48:33 AM

In addition, paying tax is a responsibility to each of the citizens in a particular country inorder to contribute something to its growth which not just you but everyone will also benefit from it. It is true that those who are handling taxes are the ones who committed theft but not the tax itself. Just think about the roads, the facilities and other that have been made possible through taxes that benefits you and others either directly or indirectly is a proof that in order for a country to survuve and improve itself it needs tax by the help of its people.

That's why it is beneficial to not be a citizen of a country. Simply live on the land. Being domeciled on the land isn't even residing in the country.

Cool

This is a very interesting idea. And in some cases it is worthwhile to heed that you get rid of the citizenship of some country in order not to pay taxes. But you are in one little error and this is what if a person without citizenship wants to have some business and he will still need to register and unambiguously pay the tax, and a simple person will simply lose some of the conclusions that he can get in the country having citizenship. I am sure that many emigrants who moved to a permanent place of residence, for example, in the United States of America and obtained citizenship, very much feel all the privileges that give them this status a country not only inside the country But also abroad.

Ideally, and what most people with a good education hope for, is a country that is minimally intrusive.

You are right that Americans have enjoyed some benefits abroad that are denied people in other countries. Likewise, a soldier can say he enjoys the benefit of commiting rapes, or a bank executive can say he enjoys the benefit of having secret information about business that allows extra profit. Always putting one person up and another down, you will find that the one who is up will accept the benefits and ignore the one who is down, or find a means to justify it.

Groups, nations, are best built on consensus. Agreement is informal but everybody knows the facts. This degrades into a false consensus built on political laws, clever 'leaders' etc, until finally you have not a group built on consensus, but a gang of people who encourage predation and which draws predatory types to enjoy membership in the gang.

BADecker

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Quote from: PancherBitCoin on May 30, 2017, 11:39:00 AM

Quote from: BADecker on May 30, 2017, 08:54:32 AM

Quote from: seo11 on May 30, 2017, 01:48:33 AM

In addition, paying tax is a responsibility to each of the citizens in a particular country inorder to contribute something to its growth which not just you but everyone will also benefit from it. It is true that those who are handling taxes are the ones who committed theft but not the tax itself. Just think about the roads, the facilities and other that have been made possible through taxes that benefits you and others either directly or indirectly is a proof that in order for a country to survuve and improve itself it needs tax by the help of its people.

That's why it is beneficial to not be a citizen of a country. Simply live on the land. Being domeciled on the land isn't even residing in the country.

Cool

This is a very interesting idea. And in some cases it is worthwhile to heed that you get rid of the citizenship of some country in order not to pay taxes. But you are in one little error and this is what if a person without citizenship wants to have some business and he will still need to register and unambiguously pay the tax, and a simple person will simply lose some of the conclusions that he can get in the country having citizenship. I am sure that many emigrants who moved to a permanent place of residence, for example, in the United States of America and obtained citizenship, very much feel all the privileges that give them this status a country not only inside the country But also abroad.

In America, if you know English very well, you can sneak into the country and live unmolested. You don't even need a business license or SSN to start a simple, humble yard care business. If you have wealth, you can live off that wealth without getting any new banking - credit/debit card from whatever other land. You can drive on an international drivers license, but if you drive carefully, nobody cares.

Is this the same in other countries?

Cool

PancherBitCoin

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Quote from: BADecker on May 30, 2017, 08:54:32 AM

Quote from: seo11 on May 30, 2017, 01:48:33 AM

In addition, paying tax is a responsibility to each of the citizens in a particular country inorder to contribute something to its growth which not just you but everyone will also benefit from it. It is true that those who are handling taxes are the ones who committed theft but not the tax itself. Just think about the roads, the facilities and other that have been made possible through taxes that benefits you and others either directly or indirectly is a proof that in order for a country to survuve and improve itself it needs tax by the help of its people.

That's why it is beneficial to not be a citizen of a country. Simply live on the land. Being domeciled on the land isn't even residing in the country.

Cool

This is a very interesting idea. And in some cases it is worthwhile to heed that you get rid of the citizenship of some country in order not to pay taxes. But you are in one little error and this is what if a person without citizenship wants to have some business and he will still need to register and unambiguously pay the tax, and a simple person will simply lose some of the conclusions that he can get in the country having citizenship. I am sure that many emigrants who moved to a permanent place of residence, for example, in the United States of America and obtained citizenship, very much feel all the privileges that give them this status a country not only inside the country But also abroad.

BADecker

legendary

Activity: 3990

Merit: 1385

Quote from: seo11 on May 30, 2017, 01:48:33 AM

In addition, paying tax is a responsibility to each of the citizens in a particular country inorder to contribute something to its growth which not just you but everyone will also benefit from it. It is true that those who are handling taxes are the ones who committed theft but not the tax itself. Just think about the roads, the facilities and other that have been made possible through taxes that benefits you and others either directly or indirectly is a proof that in order for a country to survuve and improve itself it needs tax by the help of its people.

That's why it is beneficial to not be a citizen of a country. Simply live on the land. Being domeciled on the land isn't even residing in the country.

Cool

iram3130

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ITSMYNE 🚀 Talk NFTs, Trade NFTs 🚀

Quote from: arigathanks23 on May 29, 2017, 11:59:18 PM

Quote from: miki77miki on December 28, 2016, 07:24:52 PM

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

I think it's not considered theft, because the government needs our taxes to support and provide our needs. Well it's only my opinion so you can ignore me

Tax is something you pay for the services you'll get from the government, but the thing is government's are corrupt and they just steal your money so we can say it is a type of theft in some countries but developing countries where corruption ratio is less, taxes are very useful.

seo11

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In addition, paying tax is a responsibility to each of the citizens in a particular country inorder to contribute something to its growth which not just you but everyone will also benefit from it. It is true that those who are handling taxes are the ones who committed theft but not the tax itself. Just think about the roads, the facilities and other that have been made possible through taxes that benefits you and others either directly or indirectly is a proof that in order for a country to survuve and improve itself it needs tax by the help of its people.

BADecker

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Quote from: kayeme on May 30, 2017, 12:00:38 AM

I think its predominantly Americans that have this idea that a society could function without government. In reality its not possible as it would only lead to dictatorship in the long run. You don't say that paying your rent is a unfair, the same as paying a rent for living in the country you live in is also not unfair.

No, Americans don't have that idea.

The American Government is set up to look like a civil law government. But it only acts that way until the people jump in, in the form of the jury. The jury overrules all civil laws, and even moral laws. Most people don't understand this simple thing about the American Government... even most Americans.

Taxes are formally not supposed to come from income and property taxation... according to the way Government is written. The fact that they do shows how far away from the ideals of basic American law the people have allowed the country to go.

Cool

kayeme

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I think its predominantly Americans that have this idea that a society could function without government. In reality its not possible as it would only lead to dictatorship in the long run. You don't say that paying your rent is a unfair, the same as paying a rent for living in the country you live in is also not unfair.

arigathanks23

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Quote from: miki77miki on December 28, 2016, 07:24:52 PM

Personally, I do feel it is theft, I never consented to any taxation. I feel that this video helps explain the video quite well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGMQZEIXBMs

I think it's not considered theft, because the government needs our taxes to support and provide our needs. Well it's only my opinion so you can ignore me

Wintorez

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Quote from: PeterTheGrape on May 29, 2017, 09:55:17 AM

Quote from: Lecsor on May 29, 2017, 12:37:23 AM

...
Practically new such of the above was and will be involved in the network of different companies. I think that of the Internet users, few people did not do such things when they worked for a particular structure. I see no reason to be very indignant about this, because this is something only for the benefit and development.

Sure everybody wants food before they want a book. If Albert Einstein had been hungry he would have been a bank robber, not a physicist.

In those days when the people existed And such great people lived According to the example of Einstein and others, no one had such problems as today but of course there were others. I believe that the standard of living of the world grows with each passing day and therefore everything must be paid for. Just so nothing happens And no one just does not give anything.

PeterTheGrape

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Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: Lecsor on May 29, 2017, 12:37:23 AM

...
Practically new such of the above was and will be involved in the network of different companies. I think that of the Internet users, few people did not do such things when they worked for a particular structure. I see no reason to be very indignant about this, because this is something only for the benefit and development.

Sure everybody wants food before they want a book. If Albert Einstein had been hungry he would have been a bank robber, not a physicist.

Lecsor

full member

Activity: 210

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Comprehensive Blockchain Billing Protocol

Quote from: PeterTheGrape on May 29, 2017, 12:02:14 AM

Quote from: BADecker on May 28, 2017, 10:46:57 PM

...

If Crowdflower goes down, are they open source so that anyone could maintain their development, and the coin keep going?

Cool

They don't do it as a coin. At least as of a few years ago, they are old fashioned intermediaries. You go to them and say "I want 10,000 people a day to do trivial things on the computer for $1 per hour or $0.05 per task", and they create the software etc.

For example they used to subcontract the service of increasing google ranks, if I recall correctly. You as an individual work for a company that gets tasks from them. Then you sit at a computer with instructions from them like
1) Google "tree trimming service toledo ohio"
2) scroll through the results until you see bob's tree trimming service
3) Click on that result
4) Go to the contact page and enter the first word of the second paragraph on our form, and that task is complete.

Soon bob's tree trimming service is higher on google and a few hundred people have made enough to buy a few beers.

Their basic concept is very simple and you could copy it easily, just have to have some networking skills etc.

Practically new such of the above was and will be involved in the network of different companies. I think that of the Internet users, few people did not do such things when they worked for a particular structure. I see no reason to be very indignant about this, because this is something only for the benefit and development.

PeterTheGrape

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

Quote from: BADecker on May 28, 2017, 10:46:57 PM

...

If Crowdflower goes down, are they open source so that anyone could maintain their development, and the coin keep going?

Cool

They don't do it as a coin. At least as of a few years ago, they are old fashioned intermediaries. You go to them and say "I want 10,000 people a day to do trivial things on the computer for $1 per hour or $0.05 per task", and they create the software etc.

For example they used to subcontract the service of increasing google ranks, if I recall correctly. You as an individual work for a company that gets tasks from them. Then you sit at a computer with instructions from them like
1) Google "tree trimming service toledo ohio"
2) scroll through the results until you see bob's tree trimming service
3) Click on that result
4) Go to the contact page and enter the first word of the second paragraph on our form, and that task is complete.

Soon bob's tree trimming service is higher on google and a few hundred people have made enough to buy a few beers.

Their basic concept is very simple and you could copy it easily, just have to have some networking skills etc.

Topic: Is taxation theft? - page 38. (Read 76004 times)