Issue of fixed Matches - page 9. | Bitcointalksearch.org

KTChampions

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Quote from: ralle14 on October 22, 2021, 05:09:02 AM

Quote from: KTChampions on October 21, 2021, 09:22:27 AM

I would not call this information interesting and proving something - all we see is a screenshot of a message with an offer of money and a refusal. I'm 99.99% sure that this is an ordinary message from a troll that all famous personalities receive a lot on a wide variety of topics. The very idea of such a thing seems dubious to me - would you agree (even to a super-profitable offer) from an anonymous person, despite the fact that the very fact of your consent would jeopardize your entire career (and possibly your freedom)?

Sure it doesn't say much but there's always a possibility as i've seen other esports team in the same level get caught and do these type of stuff.

Another recent case is this tournament where Newbee got caught fixing matches and the tournament organizers dropped them right away.

It's obvious that most players wouldn't risk their career for a certain amount of money but there are other desperate players who are willing to put their career on the line.

An interesting case, but I would not compare events in such leagues with events in professional football leagues. Too different level of material interest, and hence the professional attitude to business. Look at the size of the prize money - they are ridiculous even for the top teams, it is not surprising that outsiders are trying at their own peril and risk to earn in other ways (I do not support them in this).

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Quote from: traderethereum on October 21, 2021, 10:21:46 PM

That matches will continue but the audience can judge what they watch.

Those fixed matches are always easy to spot if you're actually a researcher and know-how both teams or the players play. You'll get the idea if they're doing their best or just trying to play the game itself which is already a game that they shouldn't play - a term for those that don't seriously do it. That's why some die-hard fans have a say when they find it odd upon watching a game that's sold.

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Quote from: KTChampions on October 21, 2021, 09:22:27 AM

I would not call this information interesting and proving something - all we see is a screenshot of a message with an offer of money and a refusal. I'm 99.99% sure that this is an ordinary message from a troll that all famous personalities receive a lot on a wide variety of topics. The very idea of such a thing seems dubious to me - would you agree (even to a super-profitable offer) from an anonymous person, despite the fact that the very fact of your consent would jeopardize your entire career (and possibly your freedom)?

Sure it doesn't say much but there's always a possibility as i've seen other esports team in the same level get caught and do these type of stuff.

Another recent case is this tournament where Newbee got caught fixing matches and the tournament organizers dropped them right away.

It's obvious that most players wouldn't risk their career for a certain amount of money but there are other desperate players who are willing to put their career on the line.

KTChampions

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Quote from: Lakai01 on October 21, 2021, 12:35:50 PM

Ahhh those memories, I almost forgot about that Calciopoli scandal.

At the time, a number of clubs were involved, including Juventus. If I remember correctly, the involvement of the referees could also be proven, which puts the crown on the whole thing when both several clubs and the referees are involved.

But I also remember games in the German Bundesliga where the heavy favorites lost to complete underdogs at the end of the season, so that they managed to stay in the league. What surprises me is that in such cases all/most of the players and the coach have to be in on it. Otherwise, it would be very difficult for this to work cause the chance that someone will "spill the beans" is correspondingly high.

I think this happens in all leagues (for example, in the Russian one it happened very often). I think there is an explanation for this and it is not necessarily a matter of fixing matches. Quite often it turns out that the team in 2nd place has no chances to take the first place (the gap from the leader's team is too great), but it also cannot fall below (the competitors are far behind the 2nd place). Therefore, such a team does not have 100% motivation to play, and the team that tries to avoid relegation from the league has and therefore wins.

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Quote from: Questat on October 22, 2021, 12:54:15 AM

Quote from: mindrust on October 21, 2021, 11:56:20 PM

Selling ebooks is another example. 99.9% of the time the information you'll get from those books is bullshit. If the information had any value, he wouldn't sell it.

This could be true, but somehow an ebook would teach us how to manage ourself in gambling, actually bankroll management and discipline are both very important, winning a bet is quite different, it cannot be written in the book that is up to a gambler's ability to analyze the game before putting a bet and win.

I believe that reading a book can be helpful for people who are getting in touch with something for the first time... I didn't read any books, all that I learned came from people who were doing it, and in discussions with them and practicing I learned about gambling! And I think it's a better way, and a lot easier to understand! As Mindrust says "99.9% of the time the information you'll get from those books is bullshit." This is because you need a piece of simple information, but a book writer needs a whole book, so he is using long and complicated sentences, he is decorating everything he can... so reading it you can get lost in all the unnecessary stuff!

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Quote from: mindrust on October 21, 2021, 11:56:20 PM

Selling ebooks is another example. 99.9% of the time the information you'll get from those books is bullshit. If the information had any value, he wouldn't sell it.

This could be true, but somehow an ebook would teach us how to manage ourself in gambling, actually bankroll management and discipline are both very important, winning a bet is quite different, it cannot be written in the book that is up to a gambler's ability to analyze the game before putting a bet and win.

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Quote from: traderethereum on October 21, 2021, 10:21:46 PM

Quote from: harizen on October 21, 2021, 06:28:09 PM

Quote from: Fatunad on October 21, 2021, 04:59:13 PM

And its really hard to determine before but when the game starts then things turns out to be noticeable when you do see movements which arent casual for them for you to see.
Fixed matches are there and possible but its really hard to be proven out unless if there's some leaking info about it.

Not just for leak info but at least we can somehow determine a game if it's rigged or not. Sometimes, just because an underdog defeats the favorites, it's always subject to rigged or being a fixed match for others. I doubt a defeat to the underdog can be staged properly. It can't even be done by a good rehearsal.

A suspected fixed match does have lots of flaws just by watching it live. That's why no need for leaked information regarding that. But that fixed match will not be considered a fixed match unless there's someone who will file a legal basis for that.

Maybe we can see what the jury in the field will do if some player is making a mistake because when I know that thing, sometimes, I just think that the jury was on the opposite side.

Jury does not confirm to be in good side always because sometimes they are the one who is involved also in such cases or at least they are part of the Payroll.

Quote

If that happens, I usually do not have an interest in continuing watching the match and maybe I will do other things.

but if you are bettor then you have no way to stop watching as the interest to find if you are win or lose.

Quote

But still, it is hard to suspect a fixed match as we do not have clear information about that, although the jury can support the opponent by not giving a yellow or even a red card.
That matches will continue but the audience can judge what they watch.

we are the one who must decide in which, because the problem in fixed matches are nothing to be found unless the involved will admit it.

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Quote from: Jackl87 on October 19, 2021, 11:53:31 AM

Quote from: mindrust on October 18, 2021, 09:13:41 AM

They are real but you'll probably get scammed believing that you can actually access that information. Whoever selling/telling you these matches is either scamming you or just lying because why not. If I had that information I wouldn't share it with anyone because the more people bet on that game, the more suspicions it would raise and when enough people look at that game, the bets might get cancelled. 99.9% of the time the information you get will be nothing but bullshit.

I actually never thought about it that way but you are absolutely right of course. If they claim to already have a match that is fixed and they want you to join their "private group" for a certain entry fee, then it just has to be a scam because it would mean that those guys already have paid the players or referees in order to fix the outcome of that match, so why would they give away those informations now after they have already paid? One reason could be that they can not bet a to big amount of money on the match because it would be to obvious and the bookmaker would become suspicious. But if they sell the information to other people they could make additional profit, but i guess that would be too dangerous.

This is the art of scamming.

You always try to make the victims believe that they are scamming you (it is a good deal) but in reality you are scamming them. The oldest trick in the world.

Selling ebooks is another example. 99.9% of the time the information you'll get from those books is bullshit. If the information had any value, he wouldn't sell it.

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Quote from: harizen on October 21, 2021, 06:28:09 PM

Quote from: Fatunad on October 21, 2021, 04:59:13 PM

And its really hard to determine before but when the game starts then things turns out to be noticeable when you do see movements which arent casual for them for you to see.
Fixed matches are there and possible but its really hard to be proven out unless if there's some leaking info about it.

Not just for leak info but at least we can somehow determine a game if it's rigged or not. Sometimes, just because an underdog defeats the favorites, it's always subject to rigged or being a fixed match for others. I doubt a defeat to the underdog can be staged properly. It can't even be done by a good rehearsal.

A suspected fixed match does have lots of flaws just by watching it live. That's why no need for leaked information regarding that. But that fixed match will not be considered a fixed match unless there's someone who will file a legal basis for that.

Maybe we can see what the jury in the field will do if some player is making a mistake because when I know that thing, sometimes, I just think that the jury was on the opposite side.
If that happens, I usually do not have an interest in continuing watching the match and maybe I will do other things.
But still, it is hard to suspect a fixed match as we do not have clear information about that, although the jury can support the opponent by not giving a yellow or even a red card.
That matches will continue but the audience can judge what they watch.

Fatunad

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Quote from: harizen on October 21, 2021, 06:28:09 PM

Quote from: Fatunad on October 21, 2021, 04:59:13 PM

And its really hard to determine before but when the game starts then things turns out to be noticeable when you do see movements which arent casual for them for you to see.
Fixed matches are there and possible but its really hard to be proven out unless if there's some leaking info about it.

Not just for leak info but at least we can somehow determine a game if it's rigged or not. Sometimes, just because an underdog defeats the favorites, it's always subject to rigged or being a fixed match for others. I doubt a defeat to the underdog can be staged properly. It can't even be done by a good rehearsal.

A suspected fixed match does have lots of flaws just by watching it live. That's why no need for leaked information regarding that. But that fixed match will not be considered a fixed match unless there's someone who will file a legal basis for that.

You're definitely right on this one because fans arent really that dumb nor blind on not to notice those things but it doesnt really mean that underdogs cant beat out the favorites but it should really be in justifiable manner
because we could really say that something is happening if you arent really that convinced that those underdogs had beaten out the stronger ones and its true that this cant be done swiftly and smoothly no matter
how they do make out some rehearsals or practice on executing for it not to be that suspicious thats why its really hard to believe on with those moments as of these years.

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Quote from: Fatunad on October 21, 2021, 04:59:13 PM

And its really hard to determine before but when the game starts then things turns out to be noticeable when you do see movements which arent casual for them for you to see.
Fixed matches are there and possible but its really hard to be proven out unless if there's some leaking info about it.

Not just for leak info but at least we can somehow determine a game if it's rigged or not. Sometimes, just because an underdog defeats the favorites, it's always subject to rigged or being a fixed match for others. I doubt a defeat to the underdog can be staged properly. It can't even be done by a good rehearsal.

A suspected fixed match does have lots of flaws just by watching it live. That's why no need for leaked information regarding that. But that fixed match will not be considered a fixed match unless there's someone who will file a legal basis for that.

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Quote from: Lakai01 on October 21, 2021, 12:35:50 PM

Quote from: Pmalek on October 21, 2021, 02:33:21 AM

Back in 2006, when the Calciopoli scandal hit Italian Serie A.
-snip-
In such a scenario, you need both teams to know about it.

Ahhh those memories, I almost forgot about that Calciopoli scandal.

At the time, a number of clubs were involved, including Juventus. If I remember correctly, the involvement of the referees could also be proven, which puts the crown on the whole thing when both several clubs and the referees are involved.

But I also remember games in the German Bundesliga where the heavy favorites lost to complete underdogs at the end of the season, so that they managed to stay in the league. What surprises me is that in such cases all/most of the players and the coach have to be in on it. Otherwise, it would be very difficult for this to work cause the chance that someone will "spill the beans" is correspondingly high.

No one would really spill out the beans since they've been paid out well and for sure there would be some sort of personal agreements or terms to those people who could be possibly involved.
And its really hard to determine before but when the game starts then things turns out to be noticeable when you do see movements which arent casual for them for you to see.
Fixed matches are there and possible but its really hard to be proven out unless if there's some leaking info about it.

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Quote from: Pmalek on October 21, 2021, 02:33:21 AM

Back in 2006, when the Calciopoli scandal hit Italian Serie A.
-snip-
In such a scenario, you need both teams to know about it.

Ahhh those memories, I almost forgot about that Calciopoli scandal.

At the time, a number of clubs were involved, including Juventus. If I remember correctly, the involvement of the referees could also be proven, which puts the crown on the whole thing when both several clubs and the referees are involved.

But I also remember games in the German Bundesliga where the heavy favorites lost to complete underdogs at the end of the season, so that they managed to stay in the league. What surprises me is that in such cases all/most of the players and the coach have to be in on it. Otherwise, it would be very difficult for this to work cause the chance that someone will "spill the beans" is correspondingly high.

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Quote from: madnessteat on October 18, 2021, 11:49:26 AM

Of course fixed matches exist but as practice shows many sources that provide information on fixed matches are very often wrong.

I do not think that players have the opportunity to change the score in a fixed match because they will not risk going against the interests of the club and value their careers.

That may be true in powerful leagues, however we know there is a lot of amateur sports in which people still take bets, in fact before the pandemic I used to see boxing fights in which the boxers fighting were just starting their career and it was full of people, but more importantly there is a lot of informal betting going on, so I would not be surprised if there was so much money moving around those fights that there was a strong incentive to fix them.

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Quote from: bolawin on October 21, 2021, 02:19:08 AM

i know how to spot fixed match, it make me money most of the time Grin

Like what I previously mentioned, there was a time that a game in basketball was investigated due to match fixing. You can actually observe their pattern and their movements showing their disinterest and their intentional throwing of the game by the second quarter.
To be honest, it is kinda difficult to spot if a game is fixed. Lots of factors to be considered as every thing is a case-to-case basis.

If you guys are curious, here is the YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UPeeprZs0U

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Quote from: bolawin on October 21, 2021, 02:19:08 AM

i know how to spot fixed match, it make me money most of the time Grin

They usually fix the game on the last part of the game, they make it close heading to the last part of the game before fixing, there's no way to tell at the start of the game or a match, I don't know you spot it because you did not go further, I have seen a game being fix in a basketball but it happens in the last three minutes of the game, no way to tell accurately unless it comes from a reliable source.

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Quote from: ralle14 on October 21, 2021, 07:41:35 AM

I guess this topic isn't discussed as much that's why some people like OP are having some doubts about the likeliness of match fixing during this time and I don't blame him since we rarely see this type of case pop up in the news.

I've linked this thread before but for those who are interested here's an example from the Dota scene where one of the pro players was asked to throw their upcoming match.

I would not call this information interesting and proving something - all we see is a screenshot of a message with an offer of money and a refusal. I'm 99.99% sure that this is an ordinary message from a troll that all famous personalities receive a lot on a wide variety of topics. The very idea of such a thing seems dubious to me - would you agree (even to a super-profitable offer) from an anonymous person, despite the fact that the very fact of your consent would jeopardize your entire career (and possibly your freedom)?

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Quote from: yazher on October 21, 2021, 07:03:42 AM

Fix matches are common in every country and I think it's just a matter of paying high and everyone who is involved is happy with the payment and no one will ever talk about it considering the possible bad consequences if they gonna open their mouth about it. Imagine, if it's not real, then how are we having this kind of topic in the first place?

There are some claims and we only know about it because mostly we see it on TV or sometimes the people involved in it have no other chance but to confess everything they know.

the thing is, how you find a way to coordinate a full team or two full teams to fix results?
if its fixing one specific thing like faults or whatever than it may be easier, but fixing goals in soccer, or points in a basketball game seems like quite hard to do... does it really happens?

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Quote from: yazher on October 21, 2021, 07:03:42 AM

Fix matches are common in every country and I think it's just a matter of paying high and everyone who is involved is happy with the payment and no one will ever talk about it considering the possible bad consequences if they gonna open their mouth about it. Imagine, if it's not real, then how are we having this kind of topic in the first place?

There are some claims and we only know about it because mostly we see it on TV or sometimes the people involved in it have no other chance but to confess everything they know.

I guess this topic isn't discussed as much that's why some people like OP are having some doubts about the likeliness of match fixing during this time and I don't blame him since we rarely see this type of case pop up in the news.

I've linked this thread before but for those who are interested here's an example from the Dota scene where one of the pro players was asked to throw their upcoming match.

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Fix matches are common in every country and I think it's just a matter of paying high and everyone who is involved is happy with the payment and no one will ever talk about it considering the possible bad consequences if they gonna open their mouth about it. Imagine, if it's not real, then how are we having this kind of topic in the first place?

There are some claims and we only know about it because mostly we see it on TV or sometimes the people involved in it have no other chance but to confess everything they know.

Topic: Issue of fixed Matches - page 9. (Read 1625 times)