Topic: jgarzik goes berzerk in #bitcoin-dev, wtf? - page 17. (Read 29037 times)

This is precisely why tools like Tor and Freenet are so valuable. These kinds of discussions can happen in ways that greatly reduce the participants' susceptibility to retaliation.

I agree. My statement was a provocation anyway. I know plenty of people in Western countries that find Bitcoin useful, myself included, but it's true that the regular joe doesn't have many uses for it here. In restricted countries Bitcoin could help exactly the regular joe's but only if we give it a shot.

Now that I've seen more defences from notable members such as Casascius and miscreanity, I'm coming to the conclusion that we do indeed have a conflict on this issue.

I understand that it's much easier for someone from Finland to promote Bitcoin to Iran than it is for someone who is from the US. It's a delicate situation. Personally I'm taking a strong stance on this one and I'm forced to call cowardice on certain people, no choice.

I think it's inevitable that Bitcoin starts to get more attention and if this is it, then so be it. Bitcoin either can take the heat or it can't. We'll see. It will happen eventually anyway and there is really no way to stop Bitcoin from being used in Iran by us, unless we want to become exactly what we're opposing.

Again, it's easier for me to talk like this when I'm from Finland. I understand the difficulty of this from the point of view of people in the US. However, this is one of those things that forces the anarchist inside me to come out.

This simply is one of those times when I'll say, bring it on. I agree that in 2010 that would've been stupid but at this point we should be able to take some heat. Massive heat is unrealistic at this point, LocalBitcoins has had 34 transactions in Iran or something like that. Not a lot.

IMHO the analogy of "fighting the state" is not adequate. They're stronger, fighting is futile. But we can escape them. We should just learn how to run faster.
"... the lions are getting old. They don't run as fast these days. Zebras are multiplying.": http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north900.html

Your statement is true if and only if the same kinds of currency controls and devaluations that have occurred in other countries that can't get their fiscal house in order never come to the Western countries.

How would you stop the Bitcoin issuer?

Who's marketing to Iran? Who received any money for selling anything to Iran?
Creating a translation to Farsi has nothing to do with marketing to Iran. There must be plenty of people around the world who speak Farsi outside Iran.

I for one do not abide by the fascism that the USA mafia-state reeks of these days.

From my point of view Bitcoin is strong enough to attempt to f*ck the state.

wtf guys!?  understanding the power structure of the world and being practical is one thing, but this is outright cowardice which has detrimental effects on the community

wow i really dislike that boot.  isnt the POINT of bitcoin to put money into PEOPLE'S hands?  unethical laws should not be obeyed, and a primary function of a system like this is to take that control to the people, where it belongs.  if he thinks it'll hurt bitcoin and that it's a bad idea, then discourage it being used that way and have that discussion, but booting him or crying that farsi translation or using sha256 is illegal is completely against the entire PURPOSE of bitcoin.  and in the link he gave, satoshi was clearly speaking purely from a pragmatic perspective.

+1

Usage of Bitcoin occurs regardless of state sanctions. There are some vulnerable points to the Bitcoin system, notable the exchanges and developers.

Allowing potentially 'illegal' activities is different from actively promoting them. The latter paints a bright red bullseye on Bitcoin's soft targets.

If you start 3D printing assault rifles, flaunting the fact will get you noticed by the kind of people you're defending yourself against in the first place. This is similar in that there's only an arbitrary decree of illegality, but the power behind that stance is overwhelming and fickle.

It's unwise to deliberately antagonize; we are not big enough to walk with impunity yet.

I am going to have to agree with jgarzik here.

We as a community are asking for swift trouble from US govt bullies if we are actively marketing Bitcoin to Iran.  It has nothing to do with whether it's legal, moral, ethical or not. We are lucky they have left this project alone thus far.  Doing anything that looks like marketing to Iran will change that quickly.

Also, bitcoin-dev is a publicly logged channel.  If I am a Bitcoin developer on a publicly logged chat channel where my actions could be scrutinized by the media and the world and someone wants to discuss Iran, kicking and banning in a publicly visible manner would be prudent.  That is truly not a good place to talk about that subject.

I sure as hell would not want to discuss bringing Bitcoin to Iran in any place where my discussion was being logged and published.

It depends on if your name is Bob Sapp. 

Let me use an analogy.

If you start doing mma, will you gradually go the ranks, and then when you're ready, challenge the best fighter, or will you as a newbie challenge the world champ immediately ?

this.

Running a bitcoin laundry or SR or a ponzi scheme does not usually get you shipped off to Guantanamo.  

Actually -1 for wisdom as well. So what's the plan? Limit our use of Bitcoin to conform with the U.S. regulations until it's widespread enough, and then boom, we can use it for penetrating through sanctions as well and they can't do anything about it, since it's got big enough!

You are not fooling anyone. Everyone knows what Bitcoin is and what it can be used for.

It will never get widespread enough to suddenly intimidate regulators. They will either allow it to get bigger in peace or not. It really doesn't matter whether you "give them reasons".

There are always reasons. It's a matter of how much they are intimidated by the concept and whether there is something they can do about it.

Well, if it's just how you use it, where are jgarzik calls to shut down or ban even just verbally a number of B laundering sites there are in this world, or SR, or a number of Bitcoin "services" that have since defrauded their customers, or whatever in the B world that is expressly forbidden by US law?

If you believe that the SHA-256 "technology" has not already been exported to every corner of the world, you probably also believe that the US citizens all drive the speed limit on their roadways too...  (A long-standing public display of hypocrisy and stupidity on a massive, national scale, among many other examples...)

We all know how corrupt, self-serving and hypocritical the laws are in every country, and this one is no exception, except to jgarzik and the like for their own self-serving and hypocritical reasons...

-1 for cowardice

It's one thing to silence people because you are afraid of the United States.

It's another to actually defend their excuses to take away freedom from those that actually need it.

Why not also advocate banning access to TOR from within Iran? They are using cryptography after all...

Jesus...