Topic: [LEAKED] Private Bitcoin Foundation Discussions On Blacklisting, more (ZIP dump) - page 4. (Read 61192 times)

I would love to see this in practice. Maybe it's about time something happened to test this theory.
My money is you wouldn't like the results. 

Yeah. But why would they want to pull out?
All they need to do is keep mining with the old software, if they don't like some changes in a new version - as long as they keep the majority, they loose completely nothing by not changing a protocol. Moreover: the only reason for them to vote for changing the protocol is to see an actual incentive in it. If you don't have an incentive, there is no way they would accept any change in the protocol.

I am saying that most miners have more to lose by pulling out than by continuing to run their mining rigs.

The hobbyists can pull out and take a small loss on their GPU's or whatever. The big guys, no way.

Of course it is important to inform each other.
It is like with every democracy; if you don't know the actual motives behind the changes that you are about to vote for, you might just hurt yourself by voting for them.
But so far, this community has showed that they can speak up and listen, when there is a need for it.

So yeah, I'm quite convinced that this project is going to work, as long as there is no backdoor in the secp256k1 - that's like the only thing which could still kill bitcoin.

Thanks for your perspective, it is quite optimistic, or rather, more correctly, quite positive. More positive indeed than many of the understandably angry voices who have commented here.

I still think it is important that threads and conversations like this occur as I'd speculate that the vast majority of miners are in the dark with respect to what the Foundation are doing, especially with regards this topic. Perhaps you are right, maybe bitcoin will continue on its merry dance and resist those who seek to chain and dilute its value and utility?

Let's hope so.

But why do you think that they are held by weak hands?
Are you saying that bitcoin miners are stupid?

What use are 17000000000000000 hashes per second if they are held by weak hands?

Miner's have become dependent on Bitcoin. No investor is going to flip the switch and let their $$$ hardware become paper weights in the name of ideals.

The power of the network in overestimated. People have more reasons to continue mining even in unfavorable conditions than they have reasons to leave.

Classic bait and hook.

You are overestimating capabilities of the devs or any other kind of "elected" entities.
They cannot touch the protocol without getting their changes accepted by the miners - at least by 51% of them.
And the miners will do everything they can to protect their interests, which is essentially the value of a single bitcoin.

So the only thing the people from the foundation can do is to stop their development from happening.
Which BTW they have been pretty efficient in, for the past couple of years - but since it didn't seem to disturb the price anyhow, rather caused it to skyrocket, apparently bitcoin protocol is already mature enough and its value doesn't really mind the ongoing no further protocol changes state.

Fair enough, but let's not over-extrapolate. There is significant strength in the network being disparate and decentralised but as we've seen from the topic of this thread, power tends to corrupt and those that are supposedly on the Foundation to advance Bitcoin are, according to the vast majority of commentators on this thread, doing quite the opposite.

If those who are elected by a narrow minority cannot reflect the concerns of the broader majority, perhaps it's time to consider the dissolution of the Bitcoin Foundation or the establishment of another more responsive body that pursues a more egalitarian decentralised agenda. I'm probably not the only independent miner who might vote for that, indeed, it's probably the extension of the 'hard fork' thinking - a voice counter to those courting entrenched financial orthodoxy.

Of course not. Because no governments will be stupid enough to go on war with Bitcoin.
You don't fight things which you cannot beat - governments know it very well. If they didn't know it, they would not have been in power now.

Take your hand off it, Bitcoin isn't going to destroy any governments, dream on soldier.

There already have been the battles for control - there are, and certainly there will be more of them in a future.
But so what? They are pretty bloodless, even quite funny, and all we need is to keep wining them. And we will because we are holding the proper weapon to win this war; 17000000000000000 hashes per second, and growing...
Our weapon is pretty much decentralized, spread all over the world - it cannot be destroyed and so there is no way that any corporation, no matter how powerful, can beat it now. At least I don't see it happening in a foreseeable future.

Plus I think you are totally missing the fact that if "Bitcoin = Money = Power", then sooner Bitcoin will destroy the governments than the other way around.

Agreed

 


~BCX~

Bring it on.  It's going to be a tricky needle to thread.  Chop up a starfish into pieces to try to kill it and what you end up with is a whole bunch more starfish.

To your other point, ya, not a lot of people understand networking and cryptography.  A much larger number can recognize abusive and unfair strong-arm tactics, especially when it effects themselves and their friends and family.  At some point in the regulatory process it's going to come time to clamp down on basic freedoms of association.  'Piss or get off the pot' one might say.  It'll be interesting to see how (and if) that is accomplished.

I don't know what is more amusing, the fringe few thinking that the masses would revolt against anything that Gavin et al
would release or the fringe few realizing they are indeed, the fringe few.

I would say easily that 95% of the people that use and/or mine Bitcoin haven't even read Satoshi's writings on Bitcoin. On the flip side I would say less than 5% understand Bitcoin on any technical level beyond being able to point a miner at a pool.

With that being said,

Some form of regulation and control is coming, like it or not.


~BCX~

It makes sense that certain people would want to authenticate the receivers of certain cc's i suppose this is somewhat inevitable.  Hopefully this isn't leading to trying to get everyone to get a rfid chip in their hand.

This just ruined my mood this evening.

This implementation would be no more than a virus in the Bitcoin protocol and should be viewed and attacked as such.

I understand the "Nanny State" mentality where "nobody should be allowed to touch money unless they identify themselves" because who knows, "they might be a terrorist, or a drug dealer, or a rapist, or a political extremist, or a religious nut, or a gun supporter, or mentally unstable, or a Republican, or a Democrat, or a Libertarian." Pretty much insert whatever you want and exclude those who disagree... Grow a spine people.

If a majority base of the Bitcoin community supports this draconian approach at centralization then that majority base does not support nor believe in Bitcoin and should choose a different currency to stifle with their cowardice.

I don't even care to express myself more on this thread. If this were actually implemented across the pools I could easily see a forked blockchain created by a rift of ideology and a mass migration between pools... The fork which deserves to win is the fork which preserves the integrity of the actual Bitcoin protocol.

/Done with this thread...

P.S.

This is not a conversation anybody should be having or considering. Some things need to be determined and established at the start; which was obviously the case with this. This is a betrayal...

yeah, what are these gold and silver members - are they based on size of donations?

I hadn't heard of Circle (1 of the 2 gold members), looks to be a few dodgy characters running that.
http://www.circle.com/about

oh and this is kind of interesting too..
http://www.circle.com/regulatory 
eg. "Monitoring and reporting suspicious transactions"

Yup,  Inputs.io still there (and 'tradefortress' is still gone) demonstrating conclusively how much of a shit the Bitcoin Foundation gives about theft and fraud in the ecosystem.  Of course they are all up on it when it comes to 'protecting the children' and things which don't threaten people who put money into their coffers...or almost anyone else due to the rarity of this and it's cousin 'terrorism' which are puffed up into existence almost exclusively as an excuse for certain projects such as coin blacklisting.

The speed of the Bitcoin Foundations descent into standard trade organization level of secrecy, nepotism, and duplicitous behavior has surprised even me and I started out being pretty leery of this before the organization was even formed.

This my friends is the Bitcoin foundation:
https://members.bitcoinfoundation.org/current

Protecting the interests of the hands that feed.