[LEAKED] Private Bitcoin Foundation Discussions On Blacklisting, more (ZIP dump) - page 10.

corebob

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Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: piotr_n on November 16, 2013, 09:18:29 AM

Quote from: corebob on November 16, 2013, 09:07:31 AM

Quote from: piotr_n on November 16, 2013, 08:54:59 AM

Quote from: corebob on November 16, 2013, 08:50:13 AM

Good to see you around.

Keep up the good work on gocoin.

You take pull requests?

I haven't so far since I wanted to stay the only copyright holder, hoping to cash on it some day selling it for a commerce apps.
But unlike the fucking bunch of traitors I do care about the future of the bitcoin as we know it, more than personal profits, so I'm open for suggestions and ideas...

Is that why you are using openssl instead of https://github.com/titanous/bitcoin-crypto ?

OpenSSL is optional - its there just to speed up ECDSA verify operations, since the ones from standard go libs are damn slow.

But I ported sipa's ECDSA lib into native Go and it performs even better than openssl, so these days openssl is even disabled by default.
I left it there though, for paranoid people who trust more in the openssl mess than in the nice sipa's code

(I'm definitely not one of them).

I see.

By the way, what do you think about the memory usage, Are you considering/doing memory profiling and optimizations?

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1354

aka tonikt

Quote from: corebob on November 16, 2013, 09:07:31 AM

Quote from: piotr_n on November 16, 2013, 08:54:59 AM

Quote from: corebob on November 16, 2013, 08:50:13 AM

Good to see you around.

Keep up the good work on gocoin.

You take pull requests?

I haven't so far since I wanted to stay the only copyright holder, hoping to cash on it some day selling it for a commerce apps.
But unlike the fucking bunch of traitors I do care about the future of the bitcoin as we know it, more than personal profits, so I'm open for suggestions and ideas...

Is that why you are using openssl instead of https://github.com/titanous/bitcoin-crypto ?

OpenSSL is optional - its there just to speed up ECDSA verify operations, since the ones from standard go libs are damn slow.

But I ported sipa's ECDSA lib into native Go and it performs even better than openssl wrapper, so these days openssl is even disabled by default.
I left it there though, for the kind of paranoid people who trust more in the openssl mess than in the clean code from sipa and my re-implementation of it.

corebob

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: forzendiablo on November 16, 2013, 09:10:50 AM

if tghe thign listed here happends - then BTC is no different than USD or any other currency.

if there is reversile charges and easy tracking of wallets that means its no longer bitcoin. surely the market is big and there are people who want to enter it fro mthe backdoor, but we as a community should do everything o stop that. even if that will mean moving to some altcoin in the end.

Why would I want to use bitcoins instead of traditional currencies and payment systems if any of these suggestions is implemented?

forzendiablo

legendary

Activity: 1526

Merit: 1000

the grandpa of cryptos

if tghe thign listed here happends - then BTC is no different than USD or any other currency.

if there is reversile charges and easy tracking of wallets that means its no longer bitcoin. surely the market is big and there are people who want to enter it fro mthe backdoor, but we as a community should do everything o stop that. even if that will mean moving to some altcoin in the end.

corebob

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: piotr_n on November 16, 2013, 08:54:59 AM

Quote from: corebob on November 16, 2013, 08:50:13 AM

Good to see you around.

Keep up the good work on gocoin.

You take pull requests?

I haven't so far since I wanted to stay the only copyright holder, hoping to cash on it some day selling it for a commerce apps.
But unlike the fucking bunch of traitors I do care about the future of the bitcoin as we know it, more than personal profits, so I'm open for suggestions and ideas...

Is that why you are using openssl instead of https://github.com/titanous/bitcoin-crypto ?

justusranvier

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1009

Quote from: ffssixtynine on November 16, 2013, 08:46:17 AM

Quote from: piotr_n on November 16, 2013, 08:36:04 AM

Looks like the cartel is much farther with conspiring against the bitcoin principles, than I had ever expected.
That's exactly what we could predict after Google itself had put their dirty hands on the development - anyone with a working brain knew that nothing good could have come from

You haven't read the posts or the thread have you. Please go back and read what was actually said. I even posted a fair summary of quotes but you can read all the originals for yourself.

What's missing from that thread in the BF forum is the private conversations businesses and BF members have been having with regulators.

Of course the worst quotes aren't going to be made public - we've got to infer what's going on behind the scenes based on what is public. From the Forbes article:

Quote

“Essentially, we’ve been working with regulators for a structured approach for Bitcoin customers to be compliant,” says Waters. “We set up an API to work with their systems and we supply reporting tools they need for their databases. Which bitcoin addresses belong to a person? That’s the problem we’re solving.”

Who started telling the regulators this was even possible in the first place and also a good idea? Peter Vessenes. Where is Peter right now? Chairman of the Board for Bitcoin Foundation.

The leaked thread is not where the important discussions and decisions are being made.

A group of people including US government officials and business owners have decided this is going to happen, and the thread is one of many attempts to figure out a way to sell it to the community, before they give up and just ram it down everybody's throats (at least, everybody within the grasp of the US government).

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1354

aka tonikt

Quote from: corebob on November 16, 2013, 08:50:13 AM

Good to see you around.

Keep up the good work on gocoin.

You take pull requests?

Thanks.
I haven't been taking pull requests so far, because I wanted to stay the only copyright holder, hoping to cash on it some day selling it for a commerce apps.
But unlike the fucking bunch of traitors I do care about the future of the bitcoin as we know it, more than personal profits, so I'm open for suggestions and ideas...

If there will be a need for it, I will make gocoin free also for commercial use. I can also add bitcoind compatible mining API, if anyone is interested.

corebob

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: piotr_n on November 16, 2013, 08:47:40 AM

Quote from: ffssixtynine on November 16, 2013, 08:46:17 AM

Quote from: piotr_n on November 16, 2013, 08:36:04 AM

...

Good to see you around.

Keep up the good work on gocoin.

You take pull requests?

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1354

aka tonikt

Quote from: ffssixtynine on November 16, 2013, 08:46:17 AM

Quote from: piotr_n on November 16, 2013, 08:36:04 AM

Looks like the cartel is much farther with conspiring against the bitcoin principles, than I had ever expected.
That's exactly what we could predict after Google itself had put their dirty hands on the development - anyone with a working brain knew that nothing good could have come from

You haven't read the posts or the thread have you. Please go back and read what was actually said. I even posted a fair summary of quotes but you can read all the originals for yourself.

Spare me the bullshit, man.
I'm totally capable of drawing my own conclusions, not interested at all in your stupid excuses and I don't trust you a bit.

ffssixtynine

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: piotr_n on November 16, 2013, 08:36:04 AM

Looks like the cartel is much farther with conspiring against the bitcoin principles, than I had ever expected.
That's exactly what we could predict after Google itself had put their dirty hands on the development - anyone with a working brain knew that nothing good could have come from

You haven't read the posts or the thread have you. Please go back and read what was actually said. I even posted a fair summary of quotes but you can read all the originals for yourself.

piotr_n

legendary

Activity: 2053

Merit: 1354

aka tonikt

Looks like the cartel is much farther with conspiring against the bitcoin principles, than I had ever expected.
That's exactly what we could predict after Google itself had put their dirty hands on the development - anyone with a working brain knew that nothing good could have come from it.

Anyway, thanks for the leak!

wetroof

member

Activity: 75

Merit: 10

the future of bitcoin is with the miners. I'm excited to watch the battle unfold.

ffssixtynine

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: Severian on November 16, 2013, 01:00:42 AM

Quote from: ffssixtynine on November 15, 2013, 10:46:38 AM

Imagine Bin Laden is still around.

Anyone playing the bin Laden card as an argument for why Bitcoin should be debased and debilitated can be safely dismissed.

You're dismissed.

Except I didn't. It's funny that people see a terrorist name, immediately assume I'm playing the card that govs play, and then don't read the actual argument.

Which is exactly the same behaviour that allowed the US et al to start all this shit off in the first place, just from the opposite viewpoint.

So once again, follow the argument through and it's about the focus on bitcoin if/when that happens, not that they could use bitcoin as a bank but that everyone could see it and no one could stop it. A little bit of rhetoric from media and politicians and you'll immediately have the villagers besieging bitcoin and everyone who accepts it.

This entire thread is a great example of people only reading headlines and conflating topics. Imagine this on a US wide scale.

Think for yourselves. Read for yourselves. Use your brains.

I don't agree but at least those discussing forks or new currencies are perfectly valid in doing so and I'm sure we'll see a more anonymous coin take hold for black market and anon activities. It won't be used by legal businesses, but you'll just exchange it for btc. So what can they do?

That's my view on why any significant move on bitcoin is ludicrous.

corebob

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Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: wumpus on November 16, 2013, 07:48:21 AM

Quote from: jedunnigan on November 16, 2013, 12:21:53 AM

In the past most threats against the Foundation have been idle (imo), but even now I get a very bad feeling in my stomach about this. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing the BF forums get DDoS'd, defaced, among other things. Given the poor standing of other notable members (see: Peter Vessenes), the future of the Foundation is very fragile. Yes they pay Gavin, but that's only because we accept their changes and update our software. If we stop doing that and fork QT, the need for them diminishes quickly. It would be in their benefit to remember that.
the Foundation who has claimed to champion the fungibility of the protocol.

You know you can simply create a github account and start contributing? (right here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin, behold the Fork button) Like many others in this community you make it sound like forking the code is some grandiose act of rebellion. But it's simply how open source works.

No need to BF member, or go through a secret core dev initiation ritual.

Seriously, we can use more active contributors for Bitcoind/-qt. Get involved! Stop complaining, start coding (or as Erik Hughes wrote in his manifesto in 1993: Cypherpunks write code). Forking the code is not a threat to anyone. Don't confuse it with forking the blockchain.

Well said.

Developers should also be positive to alternative clients.
Gatekeeper mentality will only hurt open source projects

ffssixtynine

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: NewLiberty on November 16, 2013, 12:15:55 AM

Quote from: p2pbucks on November 15, 2013, 10:54:52 AM

you are out of the topic . The truth is Laden bought weapons using USD not bitcoin ,so why not ban USD worldwide ? Because it's not money's fault .

+2 bitcents:
If he'd been using bitcoin, he'd have been found sooner. Not to mention bitcoin transactions take technology, modern electronic communication and connectivity... all things he was forbidden to use and forbidding others around him to use. From a practical perspective, this terrorist funding angle is vulnerable to accusations of being a false premise, or worse yet, a theoretical fear floated to grab authority. It is fine to discuss it, but why be surprised when it invites severe criticism? It borders on the trollish.

The example was about the media, public and political reaction to it being done in public, not about bitcoin being usable by terrorists. It'd be very, very bad for bitcoin indeed and it is going to happen.

I apologise for not making that clear enough.

ffssixtynine

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Quote from: ?? on ??

I don't see anything wrong with the blacklisting issues being discussed. I think the suggestions are rather naïve but people are already worried that the development team is small and has significant say over what goes into the code. The perception, whether true or not, is that issues are being hidden and this whole discussion board things adds fuel that perception. When you want mass adoption perception matters more than facts.

In a sense I agree with you. Communication and trust is important. I posted earlier in this thread to explain why I wasn't a member. The Foundation know that the bitcoin crowd is a hard one to please as many have extreme views, however they don't help themselves by not being whiter than white with regard to some members. I think they have to bite the bullet in that respect.

There should be a separate business lead organisation IMHO. This would happen in other industries but in the bitcoin world it's all over connected still.

Re: forum - can't agree. This is pretty much the only place bitcoin people go, this and reddit. It is intentionally open to everything. Virtually all it's members will be on here. Bitcoin is (currently!) completely free, so scammers and businesses and everyone can use it. This forum has the same philosophy, and so do a very large number of bitcoiners.

Once we have a better place, then your argument will begin to hold more water.

justusranvier

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1009

Quote from: jedunnigan on November 16, 2013, 05:20:40 AM

Well, I am always reminded of this post by satoshi:

Quote

I don't believe a second, compatible implementation of Bitcoin will ever be a good idea. So much of the design depends on all nodes getting exactly identical results in lockstep that a second implementation would be a menace to the network. The MIT license is compatible with all other licenses and commercial uses, so there is no need to rewrite it from a licensing standpoint.

Although there are so many scenarios Satoshi could not have been expected to plan for. I've always been a fan of alternative implementations although they must be maintained and tested with utmost care and precision.

I think this is an artifact of Satoshi being stronger in crypto than in software engineering.

http://www.fastcompany.com/28121/they-write-right-stuff

wumpus

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1022

No Maps for These Territories

Quote from: jedunnigan on November 16, 2013, 12:21:53 AM

In the past most threats against the Foundation have been idle (imo), but even now I get a very bad feeling in my stomach about this. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing the BF forums get DDoS'd, defaced, among other things. Given the poor standing of other notable members (see: Peter Vessenes), the future of the Foundation is very fragile. Yes they pay Gavin, but that's only because we accept their changes and update our software. If we stop doing that and fork QT, the need for them diminishes quickly. It would be in their benefit to remember that.
the Foundation who has claimed to champion the fungibility of the protocol.

You know you can simply create a github account and start contributing? (right here: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin, behold the Fork button) Like many others in this community you make it sound like forking the code is some grandiose act of rebellion. But it's simply how open source works.

No need to BF member, or go through a secret core dev initiation ritual.

Seriously, we can use more active contributors for Bitcoind/-qt. Get involved! Stop complaining, start coding (or as Erik Hughes wrote in his manifesto in 1993: Cypherpunks write code). Forking the code is not a threat to anyone. Don't confuse it with forking the blockchain.

El Dude

hero member

Activity: 770

Merit: 500

and this is why you never put all your eggs in 1 blockchain , hurry and buy LTC before it skyrockets.

corebob

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: bluemeanie1 on November 15, 2013, 07:08:39 PM

Quote from: corebob on November 15, 2013, 06:58:27 PM

There is alternatives.

http://www.assets-otc.com/gocoin/

He's code looks sane, as go code usually does.

have you actually tried this?

apparently a web link is some sort of new form of argument proof in our modern times.

argumentum ad hrefium?

Yea I have tried it before and I tried it again. It works like a charm. Here is the output

Code:

Using NewEC wrapper for EC_Verify
Gocoin client version 0.8.3
You seem to be running Gocoin for the fist time on this PC
There is a database from Satoshi client on your disk...
Go you want to import this database into Gocoin? (y/n) : y
Go you want to verify scripts while importing (will be slow)? (y/n) : n
Be patient while importing Satoshi's database...
6.7MB of data processed. We are at height 31111. Processing speed 0.673MB/sec, recent: 689.5KB/s
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8879.7MB of data processed. We are at height 245276. Processing speed 8.978MB/sec, recent: 9023.5KB/s
8936.7MB of data processed. We are at height 245900. Processing speed 8.945MB/sec, recent: 5841.5KB/s
9059.3MB of data processed. We are at height 247044. Processing speed 8.978MB/sec, recent: 12545.3KB/s
9165.3MB of data processed. We are at height 248145. Processing speed 8.994MB/sec, recent: 10846.7KB/s
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9319.6MB of data processed. We are at height 249580. Processing speed 8.968MB/sec, recent: 9353.4KB/s
9442.8MB of data processed. We are at height 250624. Processing speed 9.000MB/sec, recent: 12615.4KB/s
9557.5MB of data processed. We are at height 251724. Processing speed 9.023MB/sec, recent: 11746.2KB/s
9594.1MB of data processed. We are at height 251974. Processing speed 8.968MB/sec, recent: 3561.1KB/s
9719.2MB of data processed. We are at height 252854. Processing speed 9.001MB/sec, recent: 12798.6KB/s
9834.4MB of data processed. We are at height 253656. Processing speed 9.024MB/sec, recent: 11785.9KB/s
9946.2MB of data processed. We are at height 254484. Processing speed 9.044MB/sec, recent: 11433.0KB/s
9986.0MB of data processed. We are at height 254725. Processing speed 8.998MB/sec, recent: 4072.7KB/s
10094.3MB of data processed. We are at height 255740. Processing speed 9.014MB/sec, recent: 11083.9KB/s
10216.9MB of data processed. We are at height 256640. Processing speed 9.043MB/sec, recent: 12553.6KB/s
10307.7MB of data processed. We are at height 257410. Processing speed 9.043MB/sec, recent: 9232.4KB/s
10353.4MB of data processed. We are at height 257856. Processing speed 9.004MB/sec, recent: 4673.2KB/s
10477.4MB of data processed. We are at height 258777. Processing speed 9.033MB/sec, recent: 12698.5KB/s
10596.0MB of data processed. We are at height 259744. Processing speed 9.057MB/sec, recent: 12137.0KB/s
10669.1MB of data processed. We are at height 260308. Processing speed 9.039MB/sec, recent: 7177.6KB/s
10736.9MB of data processed. We are at height 260917. Processing speed 9.020MB/sec, recent: 6932.1KB/s
10858.3MB of data processed. We are at height 261824. Processing speed 9.046MB/sec, recent: 12428.2KB/s
10979.8MB of data processed. We are at height 262830. Processing speed 9.072MB/sec, recent: 12438.3KB/s
11040.7MB of data processed. We are at height 263380. Processing speed 9.043MB/sec, recent: 5920.7KB/s
11098.4MB of data processed. We are at height 263928. Processing speed 9.016MB/sec, recent: 5893.2KB/s
11223.3MB of data processed. We are at height 264952. Processing speed 9.044MB/sec, recent: 12791.6KB/s
11333.9MB of data processed. We are at height 265769. Processing speed 9.060MB/sec, recent: 11221.5KB/s
11345.7MB of data processed. We are at height 265855. Processing speed 8.997MB/sec, recent: 1216.1KB/s
11465.2MB of data processed. We are at height 266826. Processing speed 9.012MB/sec, recent: 10919.4KB/s
11588.7MB of data processed. We are at height 267952. Processing speed 9.038MB/sec, recent: 12651.2KB/s
11622.6MB of data processed. We are at height 268173. Processing speed 8.994MB/sec, recent: 3464.9KB/s
11749.8MB of data processed. We are at height 268826. Processing speed 9.023MB/sec, recent: 13024.5KB/s
END of DB file
11760.9MB of data processed. We are at height 268892. Processing speed 9.024MB/sec, recent: 10862.2KB/s
Satoshi's database import finished in 1303 seconds
Now saving the new database...
Database saved. No more imports should be needed.
Opening blockchain... (Ctrl-C to interrupt)
Blockchain open in 121.371 seconds
open /home/user/.bitcoin/gocoin/btcnet/wallet/DEFAULT: no such file or directory
open /home/user/.bitcoin/gocoin/btcnet/wallet.txt: no such file or directory
Starting WebUI at 127.0.0.1:8833 ...
>

And the web client

Topic: [LEAKED] Private Bitcoin Foundation Discussions On Blacklisting, more (ZIP dump) - page 10. (Read 61123 times)