[LEAKED] Private Bitcoin Foundation Discussions On Blacklisting, more (ZIP dump) - page 9.

ffssixtynine

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Quote from: piotr_n on November 16, 2013, 11:42:16 AM

Quote from: ImI on November 16, 2013, 11:33:40 AM

i smell cold war thinkin

Then you probably don't know history, sir.
Cold war wasn't an actual war - it was only a propaganda served by the governments at both the sides of the Berlin wall, just to keep people scared thus more subjective.
Whilst the Bitcoin blowup is an actual war, where the people are fighting corporations that have been enslaving us for the last century using the weapon of a money creation monopoly.
But we have just built our own weapon and we are not giving it up! It has a power of 5PH/s, growing every day, and no WMDs they own are a thread to us anymore.
They can assassinate a person, they can genocide a nation - but they cannot break Bitcoin.

You are absolutely mental. Tin foil hat stuff.

qwk

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Shitcoin Minimalist

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: AlexNeto on November 15, 2013, 08:13:50 AM

This is why we need alternative blockchains. Bitcoin is going mainstream.

Yup this is why Litecoion, in case bitcoin ever gets fucked up.

Why was I expecting that? You can't let an opportunity to hype Litecoin pass by, can you? Roll Eyes

Nah, that's okay, but the problem is not solved by just using Litecoin.
You might actually escape blacklisting coins by chain-hopping from one alt-coin to another, though.

ffssixtynine

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Quote from: callem on November 16, 2013, 11:29:49 AM

The determination of what constitutes illegal activity and enforcement thereof is in the realm of national governments, not payment systems. And certainly not a payment system that has no borders or national affiliation.

Each country has laws and mechanisms to deal with what it considers to be illegal. Bitcoin does not belong to any nation, and definitely not to any single foundation, regardless of what it calls itself.

Bitcoin belongs to its user-base alone, no one else can or should speak for it.

I agree 100% with all the above except for the very last bit.

If you don't have anyone speaking for it, it won't survive (except maybe as a black market currency). You can't pretend national governments don't exist, certainly not if you want mainstream or business adoption. At the very least you need people educating them otherwise you'd quickly get whacky and ill thought out legislation.

qwk

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Quote from: tinus42 on November 15, 2013, 07:31:14 PM

Quote from: CanaryInTheMine on November 15, 2013, 10:57:36 AM

Or an alternative, true, foundation?

No, no centralization please. Existing members of the BF should consider withdrawing their membership.

The opposite is probably true.
The Foundation is a tiny organization.
You want something changed over there?

Join and make change happen.

That's the way political progress happens, not uninformed rants on a pseudonymous forum like bitcointalk.org.

ffssixtynine

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Quote from: piotr_n on November 16, 2013, 11:11:40 AM

I think I made myself clear that I am not interested in debating anything with you, nor with any of your co-conspirators from the cartel, otherwise known as a self proclaimed bitcoin elite.
Just like the nazi government you are apparently working for, I also don't negotiate with terrorists - a subtle difference though is that for me you are the terrorists.
So just fuck off and don't even speak to me, since we have no common goals anymore - and this part I am already sure about, after reading your bitcoin protocol improvement "proposals" that followed two years of a precious development time totally wasted on implementing some crappy SSL-based "payment system", because Google said so...

Of course you will not break bitcoin, but definitely not because of a lack of trying...
You won't break it because it was invented by a person much smarter than you and is now protected by the hashing power of the people who, unlike you, don't think that nazi USA is exceptional and can/should rule the world.
You can keep committing genocides all around the world, calling it all you want "operation freedom" or whatever other Orwellian titles, but you won't break this network, no matter how hard you try and how dirty you play the game - I have already bet all my money on it

What on earth are you on about?! Are you on drugs?

Nothing you said there makes sense, nor does it have any relevance whatsoever for anything I've said which is asking people to take an evidence based approach and not one based on FUD, extremism and insults.

It's like arguing with religious extremists about how old the earth is!

qwk

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: qwk on November 15, 2013, 03:38:46 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

It is not helpful to keep this information quiet and shutting people out while asking them to use Bitcoin.

I fail to see how 2707 posts by Mike Hearn, some of them (months ago even) precisely about the issue at hand (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/decentralised-crime-fighting-using-private-set-intersection-protocols-157130) correlate to keeping information quiet and shutting people out.

You fail to see any possible flaw whatsoever with the Bitcoin Foundation. They do some good things and things that are not so good. However, the cheerleaders like you make me suspicious. I will provide an explanation (I am sure you will ignore the explanation and continue cheerleading but here it is

You again. Wink

First of all, as you may clearly see in the above quotes I wasn't saying anything about not seeing flaws in the Foundation, but instead I was explicitly talking about the wrong assumption that the person Mike Hearn is keeping "information quiet" and that the people over at the Foundation were "shutting people out". Both assumptions lack any evidence whatsoever. Last I checked, forum access over at the Foundation was around 2 USD per month. Mike Hearn had more than 2707 posts over here at bitcointalk compared to 238 posts on the Foundation's forum.

Basically, I've proven you wrong, and now you won't admit it.

Quote from: ?? on ??

-Keeping the discussions board unavailable to the public its a major issue. The reply that is always given is that it will cause all this noise if anyone is allowed to post. the usual reply to that is top make them read only. No reply is ever given to that request and people keep claiming the discussion boards are public. The Foundation keeps claiming they are transparent when they obviously are not. This is a failure of Jon Matonis because he is not upholding the mission of the Foundation.

Definitely, the decision to keep the Foundation's forum a "gated community" may be questioned. We had a long discussion about the pro's and con's of it, and we may yet make up our minds about wether or not we'd like to change that. I personally am opposed to "opening the gates", and now that there are already hundreds, if not thousand of posts over there that were made under the assumption that this was a private conversation, we cannot simply breach the contract and disrespect the privacy of the Foundation's members, as the OP did.

Disrespect for the privacy of others is probably opposed to the basic beliefs of a large majority of Bitcoin's strongest supporters, which is why I personally despise such an act of barbarism.

In the end, I guess the Foundation will have to have another discussion about read-only-access, but given the amount of uninformed trolling and the witch hunt over here, the decision against write-access for everyone was probably wise.

Quote from: ?? on ??

-As for Mike Hearn, I contacted him directly about Inputs.io and the fact that it was promoted by the administrator of this site. I suggested he make announcements somewhere else and no longer support Bitcointalk.org because it was defrauding new users with the ads. he told me to "go away" and hire my own programmer to fork the code.

That's another, completely unrelated matter and has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. You may be right, you might also be lying, I don't know, and personally, I don't even care, since this has obviously nothing to do at all with the Foundation or Mike's role over there.

piotr_n

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Quote from: ImI on November 16, 2013, 11:33:40 AM

i smell cold war thinkin

Then you probably don't know history, sir.
Cold war wasn't an actual war - it was only a propaganda served by the governments at both the sides of the Berlin wall, just to keep people scared thus more subjective.
Whilst the Bitcoin blowup is an actual war, where the people are fighting corporations that have been enslaving us for the last century using the weapon of a money creation monopoly.
But we have just built our own weapon and we are not giving it up! It has a power of 5PH/s, growing every day, and no WMDs they own are a thread to us anymore.
They can assassinate a person, they can genocide a nation - but they cannot break Bitcoin.

ImI

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Activity: 1946

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Quote from: piotr_n on November 16, 2013, 11:11:40 AM

Quote from: ffssixtynine on November 16, 2013, 10:46:54 AM

Piotr: where have I made an excuse and where in the zips posted is all the evidence for the foundation wanting blacklisting, greenlisting and soon? The only thing I found was mike's initial post where it's clear he has some sympathies with the issue at hands he sees the problem. Now I can understand people not liking that, but its the absolute worst I could find. Almost everyone posting afterwards was against the idea.

I think I made myself clear that I am not interested in debating anything with you, nor with any of your co-conspirators from the cartel, otherwise known as a self proclaimed bitcoin elite.
Just like the nazi government you are apparently working for, I also don't negotiate with terrorists - a subtle difference though is that for me you are the terrorists.
So just fuck off and don't even speak to me, since we have no common goals anymore - and this part I am already sure about, after reading your bitcoin protocol improvement "proposals" that followed two years of a precious development time totally wasted on implementing some crappy SSL-based "payment system", because Google said so...

Of course you will not break bitcoin, but definitely not because of a lack of trying...
You won't break it because it was invented by a person much smarter than you and is now protected by the hashing power of the people who, unlike you, don't think that nazi USA is exceptional and can/should rule the world.
You can keep committing genocides all around the world, calling it all you want "operation freedom" or whatever other Orwellian titles, but you won't break this network, no matter how hard you try and how dirty you play this game - I have already bet all my money on it

i smell cold war thinkin

callem

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Activity: 130

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Satoshi would neither have proposed nor supported any form of black/red listing.

The determination of what constitutes illegal activity and enforcement thereof is in the realm of national governments, not payment systems. And certainly not a payment system that has no borders or national affiliation.

Each country has laws and mechanisms to deal with what it considers to be illegal. Bitcoin does not belong to any nation, and definitely not to any single foundation, regardless of what it calls itself.

Bitcoin belongs to its user-base alone, no one else can or should speak for it.

piotr_n

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aka tonikt

Quote from: ffssixtynine on November 16, 2013, 10:46:54 AM

Piotr: where have I made an excuse and where in the zips posted is all the evidence for the foundation wanting blacklisting, greenlisting and soon? The only thing I found was mike's initial post where it's clear he has some sympathies with the issue at hands he sees the problem. Now I can understand people not liking that, but its the absolute worst I could find. Almost everyone posting afterwards was against the idea.

I think I made myself clear that I am not interested in debating anything with you, nor with any of your co-conspirators from the cartel, otherwise known as a self proclaimed bitcoin elite.
Just like the nazi government you are apparently working for, I also don't negotiate with terrorists - a subtle difference though is that for me you are the terrorists.
So just fuck off and don't even speak to me, since we have no common goals anymore - and this part I am already sure about, after reading your bitcoin protocol improvement "proposals" that followed two years of a precious development time totally wasted on implementing some crappy SSL-based "payment system", because Google said so...

Of course you will not break bitcoin, but definitely not because of a lack of trying...
You won't break it because it was invented by a person much smarter than you and is now protected by the hashing power of the people who, unlike you, don't think that nazi USA is exceptional and can/should rule the world.
You can keep committing genocides all around the world, calling it all you want "operation freedom" or whatever other Orwellian titles, but you won't break this network, no matter how hard you try and how dirty you play the game - I have already bet all my money on it

notthematrix

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Bitcoin Traitors.

We need Real Bitcoin Leadership.

There I said it.

I dare you to retaliate.

In fact a quadruple dare you to do so!

Be forewarned I don't cower like you. Nor do I back down. Nor do I waver. Nor am I a Traitor to anything at all.

And I am tenacious as a mad 200 pound starving Rottweiler on the hunt! Got it? GOOD.

1st: Secure Bitcoin.org = doing your jobs. Don't do that and you already proved your not up to the tasks at hand. Already you failed that too. Now this. What next?

YOUR FIRED.

Caveat emptor - let the buyer beware!

WAKE UP!

Bitcoin dont move! they just change adress after trade!
So what is the point of taint tracing all coins are tainted within no time!!!!!!
there will be no new bitcoins when tainted , its like dollars with coke traces!
even worse , bitcoins cant be replaced!
The more users the more tainted , and dont forget 1 bitcoin can be hold by 100.000.000 address at the same time!
So CLEAN BITCOIN IS A ILLUSION!!!!!

The only wapon the US can use is FUD!!!!!
why THEY THE USA FREAK OUT http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btcnCNY#rg1ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv
chineese are killing the dollar!!!!!

notthematrix

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Quote from: ffssixtynine on November 16, 2013, 10:46:54 AM

Quote from: Severian on November 16, 2013, 10:13:05 AM

Quote from: ffssixtynine on November 16, 2013, 08:19:37 AM

Except I didn't.

Yes, you did. In black and white. Your denial of the obvious makes you even more dismissable.

Full quote please of what I said then please? Then explain it.

Piotr: where have I made an excuse and where in the zips posted is all the evidence for the foundation wanting blacklisting, greenlisting and soon? The only thing I found was mike's initial post where it's clear he has some sympathies with the issue at hands he sees the problem. Now I can understand people not liking that, but its the absolute worst I could find. Almost everyone posting afterwards was against the idea.

Also, in all places I have made very clear that I'm against it, so let's not have that one levelled against me. All I've been doing is trying to stop FUD being lapped up.

Ten pages and still no evidence of what the op implied and still a few people coming here, writing something angry, and not taking the time to look at the facts.

FUD is the ONLY wapon a secret service has..... against the masses.
those silly LEAKS.... please the only thing leaking here is DOLLARS IN TO BITCOIN!
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/btcnCNY#rg1ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zv and all OUTSIDE the US!

ffssixtynine

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Quote from: ffssixtynine on November 15, 2013, 10:46:38 AM

It's not decisions being forced by the Foundation and I'm tired of seeing it put across like that. It's a discussion and it's a really important one. Here is why:

Imagine Bin Laden is still around.

We find out his Bitcoin address. It contains 10,000 Bitcoins and we can see transactions entering it.

We then see outgoings, some of which are traced to weapons used to kill 1000s of Americans, think a major bomb or subway incident.

What do you think is going to happen? Media outrage and congressional outrage. "We must ban this worldwide!". It's exactly what will happen. Bitcoin being so public is a double-edged sword.

Severian, I picked the quote out for you. Take note of the bit in bold. If you don't see that bitcoin needs some kind of plan to counter accusations when this happens, you're wrong.

Bitcoin is so public that we can see criminal money, e.g. Crypto locker. One day this will be mainstream news and but everyone will be lobbying to have a way to take that money.

Does it mean they should be able to? Absolutely not.

Does it mean that as a community we need to be fully prepared for this? Yep. If we don't, you'll get the coin verification stuff foisted on you or worse. The crypto stuff will become underground and kept away from the vast majority of people. That's the worst case scenario as far as I'm concerned, but I accept we may differ on opinion there.

notthematrix

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: notthematrix on November 16, 2013, 10:29:30 AM

Bitcoin dont move! they just change adress after trade!
So what is the point of taint tracing all coins are tainted within no time!!!!!!
there will be no new bitcoins when tainted , its like dollars with coke traces!
even worse , bitcoins cant be replaced!
The more users the more tainted , and dont forget 1 bitcoin can be hold by 100.000.000 address at the same time!
So clean coins is a illusion!

If someone gets some tainted coins they can just start sending satoshis to all the people they don't like to taint their addresses.

exactly all coins are dirty in no time , problem solved!

ffssixtynine

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Quote from: Severian on November 16, 2013, 10:13:05 AM

Quote from: ffssixtynine on November 16, 2013, 08:19:37 AM

Except I didn't.

Yes, you did. In black and white. Your denial of the obvious makes you even more dismissable.

Full quote please of what I said then please? Then explain it.

Piotr: where have I made an excuse and where in the zips posted is all the evidence for the foundation wanting blacklisting, greenlisting and soon? The only thing I found was mike's initial post where it's clear he has some sympathies with the issue at hands he sees the problem. Now I can understand people not liking that, but its the absolute worst I could find. Almost everyone posting afterwards was against the idea.

Also, in all places I have made very clear that I'm against it, so let's not have that one levelled against me. All I've been doing is trying to stop FUD being lapped up.

Ten pages and still no evidence of what the op implied and still a few people coming here, writing something angry, and not taking the time to look at the facts.

notthematrix

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Quote from: TheoryOfBitcoin on November 15, 2013, 08:08:41 AM

The following is a dump of full HTML files (identifying parts removed) of private Bitcoin Foundation discussions on Bitcoin blacklisting, transaction reversing, and create a new proof of work called "proof of sacrifice" for asset forfeiture.

It is VERY important that you understand what is going on behind closed doors of the Bitcoin Foundation. I am absolutely disgusted by the approach the foundation is taking to make Bitcoin no longer an open payments system, but rather a restricted, locked down platform with central control in the form of the current certificate authority structure, blacklisting of Bitcoins, reversing transactions and much more.

It always starts off small - like a UI that tells you coins are no longer fungible. It will lead into a locked down Bitcoin - that the rich wants.

PLEASE READ SATOSHI'S BITCOIN WHITE PAPER.

http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

This Is What Bitcoin Stands For. No trusted central authorities like Verisign. No transaction "meditating" or reversing. No blacklists of bitcoin - bitcoins must be fungible.

------- DUMP ------

http://uppit.com/qu6jyr37eata (fastest?)

http://depositfiles.com/files/z6shx9x8d

http://www.putlocker.com/file/55BC84500FAC90FE

-----------------------

Included:

A network of your peers - General - Bitcoin Foundation
A network of your peers - Page 2 - General - Bitcoin Foundation
Coin tracking - Law and Policy - Bitcoin Foundation
Coin tracking - Page 2 - Law and Policy - Bitcoin Foundation
Coin tracking - Page 3 - Law and Policy - Bitcoin Foundation
Coin tracking - Page 4 - Law and Policy - Bitcoin Foundation
Deep concern about the foundation's chairman of Law and Policy (Mike Hearn) pushing for coin taint - General - Bitcoin Foundation
Deep concern about the foundation's chairman of Law and Policy (Mike Hearn) pushing for coin taint - Page 2 - General - Bitcoin Foundation
Just in case you think Bitcoin has it hard with AML laws - General - Bitcoin Foundation
Position C.1 - Selectively mediated transactions are good for consumer protection - Law and Policy - Bitcoin Foundation

-----------------------

Also please read this.

Quote

Preface: Your upvotes contribute to his google search.

I believe it is worth exposing each person in this new CoInvalidation team. Yifu is a dishonest criminal of bitcoins, dollars, time, and his actions speak to a nefarious character. Google him, it's been covered.

Well, what about the other guys? The coin purse, cofounder, and government connections guy is Matthew Mellon.

First, let me preface this with saying Matt has really great family lawyers. They have attacked (and removed) a lot of articles exposing him and reporting on his past. If you report on this on your blog, he will send legal to come after you.
So, who is Matt?

Matthew Mellon is part of one of America’s most influential and wealthy families — with ties like Gulf Oil, Carnegie Mellon University and Alcoa. Matthew inherited a $25 million trust fund at only 21, and started blowing it on cocaine, guns, celebrity company, and whatever other ridiculous or dangerous things he could get his hands on. He almost overdosed, and instead of reforming, he divorced his wife went back to hit the slopes some more. He fired his next fiancee, and left her financially dry, only to jump to another woman shortly after.
Some stuff he's done that went public:

Matthew Mellon historically had a nasty breakup which exposed his crack, cocaine, and business embezzlement.

Matthew Mellon is friends enough with this ex-Paris Hilton boyfriend asshat, having borrowed him funds which also funded Brandon's drug use.

Matthew Mellon was likely involved in a hacking scandal which his lawyers cleaned up nicely. The problem with making a website also apologize is it leaves traces.

Matthew Mellon also threatened lawsuit to take another article down here. "the wealthy Matthew Mellon thought they needn't act as average people, so instead they've, through their attorneys, tried to scare us."

A report still up shows that Matthew Mellon allegedly hired wire-tapping on his ex-wife. Do you trust him with your validation? On further research, he was arrested and charged.

For you political folks, I will let you make your own decision on Matthew Mellon's contributions to Paul Ryan and Mitt Romney. He has donated both separately (majorly to Ryan) and combined. This includes the defunding of Medicare and Medicaid.

I'm sure I could keep digging wonderful things, but this post is getting too fucking long. Matthew Mellon, and associates [Alex Waters & Yufi Guo, if you read this: fuck. you.

Alex Waters, you're next. And Kashmir Hill - thanks for your previous exposure but you are a shill. Your spin shows your lack of spine and willingness to suck the institutionalized finance dick. Fuck you too.

-----------------------

BOYCOTT anything that places control of bitcoin to any authority (Verisign, US FinCEN, Bitcoin Foundation or Anything) - instead of being a very decentralized payment network and digital currency.

Bitcoin dont move! they just change adress after trade!
So what is the point of taint tracing all coins are tainted within no time!!!!!!
there will be no new bitcoins when tainted , its like dollars with coke traces!
even worse , bitcoins cant be replaced!
The more users the more tainted , and dont forget 1 bitcoin can be hold by 100.000.000 address at the same time!
So clean coins is a illusion!

Severian

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: ffssixtynine on November 16, 2013, 08:19:37 AM

Except I didn't.

Yes, you did. In black and white. Your denial of the obvious makes you even more dismissable.

Lauda

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Activity: 2674

Merit: 2965

Terminated.

Quote from: archangel689 on November 16, 2013, 09:44:36 AM

Quote from: corebob on November 16, 2013, 09:15:45 AM

Why would I want to use bitcoins instead of traditional currencies and payment systems if any of these suggestions is implemented?

^ this a thousand times this.

Kinda kills the point of bitcoin.

archangel689

newbie

Activity: 15

Merit: 0

Quote from: corebob on November 16, 2013, 09:15:45 AM

Why would I want to use bitcoins instead of traditional currencies and payment systems if any of these suggestions is implemented?

^ this a thousand times this.

piotr_n

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Quote from: corebob on November 16, 2013, 09:22:35 AM

By the way, what do you think about the memory usage, Are you considering/doing memory profiling and optimizations?

If you'd switch to a different kind of UTXO database (e.g. LevelDB), the memory usage should go down significantly.
But 3 GB that it takes in peeks these days doesn't seem like something that people cannot afford - I definitely can, so I'm not wasting my time on this.

But the interface to UTXO db is fairly simple, so if anyone wants to try wrapping it over a different engine, you're welcome to try.
https://github.com/piotrnar/gocoin/blob/master/btc/dbif.go

Topic: [LEAKED] Private Bitcoin Foundation Discussions On Blacklisting, more (ZIP dump) - page 9. (Read 61123 times)