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Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. - page 33. (Read 227070 times)

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
What's hard to debunk, are the videos of residential houses with half-demolished walls and burnt out flats.

As for Ukrainian army pics, not all soldiers there are happy with what is happening. And many of them have cameraphones Wink



Former Georgian minister and businessman Kaha Bendukidze is appointed as presidential advisor in Ukraine:
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/05/28/advisor/

legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 6403
Blackjack.fun
Here are those Ukrainain soldiers and Right Sector militants who are preparing to exterminate the citizens of Slavyansk and other cities in the Donetsk and the Lugansk oblasts.



Pretty sure that the right sector militants or the Nazis are letting civilians get close to those launchers and take photos of it.

Just like the dead child in the bombardments that later reveled to be a victim in 2011 , I'm pretty sure this picture will be debunked also.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Here are those Ukrainain soldiers and Right Sector militants who are preparing to exterminate the citizens of Slavyansk and other cities in the Donetsk and the Lugansk oblasts.

legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
Quote
Rassah : I need to remind people, AGAIN, that Hitler was democratically elected.
Hitler have used a blackmailing against Paul von Hindenburg and his administration to get a position of reich chancellor, in exchange for forgetting about tax evasion. But even after that his party was unable to reach a majority, that's why he removed all competitors before the next elections. Later in 1934 he illegally proclaimed himself as a reich president, even without performing any elections. So stop feeding us with propaganda, please, he wasn't democratically elected.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Ukraine bans RT crew from covering presidential election. Lol... not entirely unexpected. Who wants foreign media to cover a sham election?

That's not exactly a "foreign media" ban. Just a single specific previously-busted-for-propaganda ban.

Check your facts. The bans/journalist deportations touched ALL Russian news channels.

Oh, well, I know you do not want to see even the most glaring facts.  Undecided
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
Because, I believe that removing a democratically elected government and replacing it with some neo-Nazis does not augur well for the future of global democracy.

I need to remind people, AGAIN, that Hitler was democratically elected.

By the way, a public opinion poll conducted from 25 February to 4 March 2014 by the Ukrainian Center for Social and Marketing Research shows that, in the presidential election scheduled for May 25,

Ukraine bans RT crew from covering presidential election. Lol... not entirely unexpected. Who wants foreign media to cover a sham election?

That's not exactly a "foreign media" ban. Just a single specific previously-busted-for-propaganda ban. Your bias and propaganda is so blatant and blinding it's making me sick  Lips sealed Like this for instance:

Andrei Mironov, the journalist killed by Right Sector yesterday...

You say killed by right sector, every other news media in the world says "mortar shell fired by Ukrainian government troops fighting pro-Russian insurgents." Not only are Ukrainian government troops not in any way a Right Sector militia, a mortar isn't exactly a precise weapon.

or this

Doesn't matter that half the people didn't voted at all.

International observers applaud Ukraine election
http://news.yahoo.com/international-observers-applaud-ukraine-election-114033297.html

Yeah, because the actual people doing all the fighting and killing (hint, not Right Sector) forced polls to close as gunpoint and destroyed and burned election materials. Yet only one person on this thread even mentioned that fact. I wonder what those pro-Russian violent murdering thugs were they afraid of? At most it would have shown that their region rejects the Kiev government and supports whoever wants them to split off. Or would it?

Yanukovich allegedly ordered Berkut to disperse Maidan with force. It was later proven to be wrong...

ROFL! OMFG WTF?! So those heavily armed and armored Berkup forces with the riot shields were just going to Maidan to have a picnic? Are you fucking nuts?


You guys should consider getting a job with these guys https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3ltHXUkkG4 At first I thought you were just misinformed, or too deeply brainwashed by Russian propaganda, but it's blatantly obvious that you are just godamn fucking morons! I'm glad this thread exists to expose your propaganda and bullshit for what it is.
hero member
Activity: 775
Merit: 1000
2. You are turning it upside down. The whole thing started when it became clear that Ukraine would not be joining EU. Russia offered EU and Ukraine a three-way agreement that EU refused, after which Ukraine had to decide, whether to ditch its own economy, as most of Ukraine's export went to Russia and become a dumping ground for EU, or whether to keep the status quo. The latter option was taken, which didn't suite the West.

No, you've got it upside down and what you're saying doesn't make economic sense.

Firstly, the Ukraine is far too poor to be a dumping ground for EU products. They can't afford to buy anything, except for maybe a few agricultural products like pork after Russia imposed sanctions on Poland.

The Ukraine is not a gateway to Russia either, they would never make much money by selling EU products to Russia. Businesses are always trying to pressure their governments to impose tariffs or somehow reduce the amount of competition from neighbouring countries. That's normal. The difference with Russia is that Putin seems more interested in being popular rather than economically sensible, so he keeps Russia insulated from unwanted competition.

"Ditch its own economy" -- that's a ridiculous claim, completely twisting around Russia's threats to punish the Ukraine with sanctions if they didn't make the right "choice". And I suppose women ask to be raped if they don't want sex? Apart from that, the smart thing for any economy is to go where there is the most potential. Slightly better integration with Russia would just be a minor optimisation, compared to the potential of completely new industries from the west.

If you look at examples of other, former USSR puppet states such as Poland and East Germany, what would actually happen is that the west would 'dump' new jobs and infrastructure into the Ukraine. In return, the richer western countries would get cheap labour for a few years until it got too expensive.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Please explain why a newly elected president would want to destabilise his own country?

Creating friction between nationalist groups, as has been occurring in the Ukraine, does not seem like a tactic that any government would want to use on itself, unless it's suicidal. It makes far more sense that some kind of organised opposition has been giving the orders. But who? And when did it all start?

Rather than blaming the Americans for some elaborate scheme (yes, I know it's satisfying), we should use Occam's Razor and cut away the crap to find the simplest answer. When it became clear that Ukraine would not be joining the Eurasian Economic Union, it was an embarrassing and costly defeat for Putin. So when you mix emotional pride and financial pressure, you find that Moscow is behind the unrest.

1. The newly selected resident, you mean. Wink
You can start here:
http://rt.com/news/161276-ukraine-election-useful-facts/
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/fake-elections-in-ukraine-624416
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.6945608

It also helps reading the previous posts. The whole election was a farce, with half-Ukraine not voting, all candidates that somehow were positive to federalisation of the Russian-Speaking half of the population being eliminated from the run, often violently.
And the statement from Valtsman (Poroshenko), that he didn't receive any information that the operation in the South-East should be stopped. It sounded like he didn't get any instructions to that end.
He really does not have any power as per the revised constitution or any power base in the parliament, so he will be doing as he is told.
Besides, he needs to recapture the South-East, as all his factories are there.

Also, Valtsman (Poroshenko) got approximately 6 million votes. With the population of 35.5 million people that could vote, it constitutes 17% of the population voted for him. Majority?

2. You are turning it upside down. The whole thing started when it became clear that Ukraine would not be joining EU. Russia offered EU and Ukraine a three-way agreement that EU refused, after which Ukraine had to decide, whether to ditch its own economy, as most of Ukraine's export went to Russia and become a dumping ground for EU, or whether to keep the status quo. The latter option was taken, which didn't suite the West.
hero member
Activity: 775
Merit: 1000
Reinforcements from Lugansk are arriving at Donetsk. This is just a beginning.

Ukraine unrest: Dozens die as Donetsk airport 'retaken'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27584718

I understand that you guys are trying to provide balance to a mostly 'Western' corner of the Internet, but -- just like many conspiracy theories -- your one doesn't make sense.

Please explain why a newly elected president would want to destabilise his own country?

Creating friction between nationalist groups, as has been occurring in the Ukraine, does not seem like a tactic that any government would want to use on itself, unless it's suicidal. It makes far more sense that some kind of organised opposition has been giving the orders. But who? And when did it all start?

Rather than blaming the Americans for some elaborate scheme (yes, I know it's satisfying), we should use Occam's Razor and cut away the crap to find the simplest answer. When it became clear that Ukraine would not be joining the Eurasian Economic Union, it was an embarrassing and costly defeat for Putin. So when you mix emotional pride and financial pressure, you find that Moscow is behind the unrest.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Reinforcements from Lugansk are arriving at Donetsk. This is just a beginning.

Ukraine unrest: Dozens die as Donetsk airport 'retaken'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27584718
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Sanctions on autopilot:

Five more European countries have joined the row:
Montenegro, Albania, Iceland, Norway and Lichtenstein. All renowned world powers.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/russian/rolling_news/2014/05/140526_rn_eu_sanctions_new_countries.shtml

Yet none so far has condemned the rigged elections in Ukraine.



More double standards on the Western part:
Yanukovich allegedly ordered Berkut to disperse Maidan with force. It was later proven to be wrong, yet the West cried out and gave green light to displace Yanukovich.

Valtsman (aka Poroshenko) ordered to intensify the massacre of civilians in the South-East, and the West hails it as the triumph of democracy.

Fresh images:



Up to 100 killed in Kiev military op, Donetsk E. Ukraine - anti-govt forces
http://rt.com/news/161592-donetsk-truck-grenade-killed/



Terrorist Kolomojskij, asked everyone to talk to him only in Ukrainian (as opposed to Hebrew, I presume):
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/05/27/mova/
According to this item, he started to expand his dictionary, learns pronunciation of Ukrainian words and their meaning.

So, in other words, he suddenly started to learn Ukrainian. Hopes to please the Right Sector?



New Op-Edge at RT:
Europe and Ukraine: A tale of two elections
http://rt.com/op-edge/161664-elections-in-eu-ukraine/

Quote
Few in Europe would have noticed how this process is so far away from “democracy” –instead enshrining intolerance and an ideology of blind confrontation, as represented by this “debate” in Kiev driven by a clueless Yale historian.

Key facts that should be understaood are how the West ignored the Odessa massacre, as well as the detention of Russian journalists; and how the West dismissed the aspirations of eastern and southern Ukrainians as the work of “pro-Russians” or “terrorists.” These people simply became objects of repression - fully supervised by the West, with now the whole regime change theatre of the absurd in Kiev legitimized through an election charade.

Another long (sorry) relevant quote from the Op-Edge:

Quote
There’s no evidence Right Sector and Svoboda will cease to be crypto-fascist, racist and intolerant just because Poroshenko – the King of Ukrainian Chocolate – is now the president. By the way, his margin for maneuver is slim, as his own markets – not to mention some of his factories – are in Russia. Heavy industry and the weapons industry in eastern Ukraine depend on Russian demand. It would take at least a whopping $276 billion for the West to “stabilize” eastern Ukraine. The notion of the EU “saving” Ukraine is D.O.A.

Moscow, once again, just needs to do what it is doing: nothing. And make sure there will be no economic or political help unless a federalized – and Finlandized - Ukraine with strong regions sees the light of day.

Even the Brookings Institution has reluctantly been forced to admit that the US neo-con gambit has failed miserably; there’s no Ukraine without Russian help.

So it’s up to the Chocolate King to prove himself a leader of all Ukrainians, and only then will he have a shot at entente cordiale with – and even help from - Moscow.

Signs so far are mixed. Poroshenko said Ukraine could “possibly” become an EU member state by 2025 (it won’t happen). He ruled out entering NATO (wise move). He rejects federalization (dumb move). He believes that with a strong economy Crimea would want to be back (wishful thinking). Still, he believes in reaching a compromise with Moscow (that’s what Moscow always wanted, even before regime change).
hero member
Activity: 775
Merit: 1000
It's so strange.... when people have to show their Ukrainian passport/ID/whatever in order to vote, for some strange reason the most passionate nationalists fail to show up. Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 775
Merit: 1000
Doesn't matter that half the people didn't voted at all.

What happened to all those Banderos and other Nazi/nationalist extremists that the Russians were so deeply concerned about? Willy Wonka intimidated them into staying at home?

I have a better theory that makes more sense: a small minority of Russian nationalists and Russian football hooligans were making most of the trouble, putting on a nice show for the Russian media about "those crazy Ukrainians".
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
For a variety of reasons, the prospect of a Poroshenko presidency isn’t exactly inspiring.  Angry

Enter the Chocolate King

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_world_/2014/05/23/petro_poroshenko_poised_to_win_ukrainian_election_did_ukraine_really_have.html

Meanwhile, at least 3 Ukrainian civilians have reportedly been killed and several dozens more wounded when the Ukrainian Army launched assault on Donetsk yesterday.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
The predictions in this CrossTalk seem to be coming true:
http://rt.com/shows/crosstalk/161412-ukraine-presidential-election-farce/
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Doesn't matter that half the people didn't voted at all.

International observers applaud Ukraine election

http://news.yahoo.com/international-observers-applaud-ukraine-election-114033297.html
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Did people notice how Valtsman formulated continuation of terror against East:

Quote
I don’t have the information, denoting that it [the operation] must now be stopped,” Poroshenko said at a news conference, as cited by RIA Novosti. "I support its continuation, but demand a change in its format – it must be shorter and it must be more effective, military units must be better equipped.”


Information from whom? From Washington?



http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/news/2014/05/26/n_6182313.shtml

Latest news from the airport:
Either the army landed a decant there, or they were just prevented from doing do. One chopper might have been shot down:
http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/news/2014/05/26/n_6182313.shtml



Ukraine got 1.5 billion dollar loan from IMF
http://itar-tass.com/ekonomika/1216665?utm_medium=rss20



An interesting Op-Edge on RT with German journalist German journalist Manuel Ochsenreiter:
‘New Ukrainian President Poroshenko may enforce more violence in east’
http://rt.com/op-edge/161500-ukraine-president-election-result/

Quote
Before going to the east of Ukraine, likely new president Poroshenko will need to secure the situation for his PR-event, which means more violence by Ukrainian army and Western mercenaries, a German journalist Manuel Ochsenreiter told RT.

...

 RT:With half of the ballot now counted it looks like a clear win for Poroshenko. Can he bring stability to the country?

MO: I do not think so. I think even the presidential elections which took place on Sunday are not a measure to bring peace and to calm down the situation, more or less it is a contradiction. He is very clearly the man of the West, one of the favorite candidates of the West. So what he will do, he will push Ukraine or the rest of Ukraine - Ukraine is not anymore the state we see on the map, it is a failed entity – towards the West and will of course push towards contracts with the EU and towards NATO. Both he announced already in the past.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Rebels inside the Donetsk airport:



Fighting now also in Donetsk near the central railway station.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Valtsman said that Jatsenjuk is going to remain on his post as the prime minister:
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1216189?utm_medium=rss20



Valtsman is ready to send Yanukovich to jail:
http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/news/2014/05/26/n_6182017.shtml
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