Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. - page 41.

Rassah

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 13, 2014, 01:07:56 PM

Some sane voices do exist in Western Europe. Grin

EU policy to blame for Ukraine crisis - Ex-Chancellor Schroeder

http://rt.com/news/158432-schroeder-russia-sanctions-eu/

Quote

Germany’s former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has blamed European Union policy for the current situation in Ukraine and urged the West to stop focusing on new sanctions against Russia. In Schroeder’s opinion, the EU’s fundamental mistake - that subsequently led to the ongoing crisis in Ukraine – was its association policy, he said in an interview with German newspaper Welt am Sonntag published Sunday.

That's kind of a stupid statement. He is blaming the existence of a group of countries that have economic agreements, that were good enough that Ukraine wanted to join in, on what happened in Ukraine? I would have blamed whoever it was that was trying to prevent Ukraine from joining the thing they waned to join. I mean, it's almost like blaming the store a person was trying to get to for that person getting mugged, and not the mugger that prevented that person from getting to the store.

escrow.pm

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 16, 2014, 08:12:17 AM

NATO Secretary General: Ukraine may seek military assistance from individual countries of the Alliance. If Putin is really intelligent, then he should reply that the Donetsk People's Republic can seek military assistance from individual federal subjects of Russia.

nato - the provocateurs

bryant.coleman

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NATO Secretary General: Ukraine may seek military assistance from individual countries of the Alliance. If Putin is really intelligent, then he should reply that the Donetsk People's Republic can seek military assistance from individual federal subjects of Russia.

Nemo1024

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UN Ukraine report shows double standards in attempt to whitewash Kiev's actions - Russia
http://rt.com/news/159388-un-report-ukraine-criticism/

Quote

Moscow has accused a UN report on violence in Ukraine’s Odessa of being purposefully blind to hard facts and simply “carrying out a political order to whitewash” the actions of the coup-appointed government in Kiev.

Quote

Among other things, it [the report] also focuses on the problems the Tatar minority currently faces in Crimea - although there’s no mention of Kiev blocking the region’s freshwater supply – which “violates a whole range of human rights”.

...

The foreign ministry found it peculiar that “in some 30 pages of text, there is not one mention of any manifestation of aggressive nationalism and neo-Nazism in Ukraine.”

...

The icing on the cake, in Moscow’s view, could be seen in the venue where the UN findings were presented – and by whom: in Kiev, by the UN secretary-general’s assistant, Ivan Shimonovich, who has a “reputation for a lack of objectivity, making sweeping judgments” and “unsubstantiated claims.”

Shimonovich’s role in the presentation is seen as “an unambiguous indication” of the OHCHR’s bias and lack of independence and objectivity.

Nemo1024

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Quote from: boopy265420 on May 15, 2014, 03:58:04 PM

this will end with some big war as Russia is trying to restore her lost status again.

Doubtful. You might find this thread in the responses and reasoning on that topic of possible invasion of Russia interesting:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/is-the-west-gearing-up-to-invade-russia-once-again-584031

boopy265420

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this will end with some big war as Russia is trying to restore her lost status again.

Nemo1024

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He-he. Merkel stated that tight cooperation with Russia must continue despite the crisis in Ukraine:
http://www.vedomosti.ru/politics/news/26558211/merkel-zayavila-o-neobhodimosti-sotrudnichat-s-rossiej

bryant.coleman

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Russians are off-loading their US treasury bonds. Now Obama must find someone else to take care of the US public debt. Grin

Russians Flee U.S. Treasury Debt As Sanctions Hit

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/05/15/russians-flee-u-s-treasury-debt-as-sanctions-hit/

BTW... oligarch Ihor Kolomoyski allegedly sets a price on Oleg Tsarev's head, at $1 million.

Balthazar

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Quote from: niothor on May 15, 2014, 10:06:45 AM

But if you're referring to the death of Mihai Viteazu in 1601 , he was killed by habsurgs not ottomans.

He was killed by members of conspiracy headed by Giorgio Basta. After this real power in Wallachia and Moldova was seized by pro-Ottoman boyars.

Quote from: niothor on May 15, 2014, 10:06:45 AM

Also wallachia is not actually the same as what we call tara romaneasca but hell , no , this ain't the romanian history thread.

The word "Wallachia" came from Germanic languages, originally it was used as the name for Țara Românească or its principality. So it doesn't matter how somebody calls it. Roll Eyes

Țara Românească and Wallachia are the names of the same historically important region, which is located in the southern part of Romania.

Maybe you mean that Țara Românească and principality of Wallachia are not the same? If so, then you are correct.

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 15, 2014, 10:25:30 AM

Unwanted by both the Kiev junta and the pro-federalists in Donetsk and Lugansk. The richest man in Ukraine, oligarch Renat Akhmetov urges the resident to stay in Ukraine.

Akhmetov is a loser, like all collaborators. A bit later he will become Ukrainian counterpart of Khodorkovsky.

bryant.coleman

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Unwanted by both the Kiev junta and the pro-federalists in Donetsk and Lugansk. The richest man in Ukraine, oligarch Renat Akhmetov urges the resident to stay in Ukraine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlWHFyKdKEA

niothor

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in defi we trust

Quote from: Balthazar on May 15, 2014, 09:19:57 AM

Quote from: niothor on May 15, 2014, 08:13:50 AM

Tara Romanesca gained independence from Hungary 400 years before becoming what is know as a ottoman pasalac.
Moldova was never under complete Hungarian rule , Poland had far more influence in the area.
Transilvania was briefly conquered but not the entire area just the Banat region was under ottoman influence and that ended long before the 1918 reunion.

So please don't trash my country history like that

.

Well, it was already placed into trashcan by revisionism followers. Roll Eyes

Wallachia (aka Ţara Românească) and Transylvania were parts of Hungarian Kingdom. Hungarian Kingdom was weakened in the beginning of 14th century, as the result an autonomy was received by Wallachia and Transylvania since this period of time. Later these lands were conquered and freed consequently many times. There was a pro-turkish coup in the Romanian Kingdom in 1601, for example

Agree on the bold text , even I can't count the times hungaryan-habsburg-ottoman influence changed.

But if you're referring to the death of Mihai Viteazu in 1601 , he was killed by habsurgs not ottomans.
Also wallachia is not actually the same as what we call tara romaneasca but hell , no , this ain't the romanian history thread.
We're going off-topic too much here i guess.

Balthazar

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Quote from: niothor on May 15, 2014, 08:13:50 AM

Tara Romanesca gained independence from Hungary 400 years before becoming what is know as a ottoman pasalac.
Moldova was never under complete Hungarian rule , Poland had far more influence in the area.
Transilvania was briefly conquered but not the entire area just the Banat region was under ottoman influence and that ended long before the 1918 reunion.

So please don't trash my country history like that

.

Well, it was already placed into trashcan by revisionism followers. Roll Eyes

Wallachia (aka Ţara Românească) and Transylvania were parts of Hungarian Kingdom. Hungarian Kingdom was weakened in the beginning of 14th century, as the result an autonomy was received by Wallachia and Transylvania since this period of time. Later these lands were conquered and freed consequently many times. There was a pro-turkish coup in the Romanian Kingdom in 1601, for example

niothor

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in defi we trust

Quote from: Balthazar on May 15, 2014, 07:57:07 AM

Quote from: niothor on May 15, 2014, 07:44:15 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 15, 2014, 04:03:51 AM

After the Russians, it is the turn of the Magyars. After them, it will be the Romanians and Bulgarians.

Hungarian PM Orbán demands autonomy for Hungarians in Ukraine

http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/hungarian_pm_orban_demands_autonomy_for_hungarians_in_ukraine.27766.html

Ukraine Is Urged to Extend Autonomy for Ethnic Hungarians

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-12/ukraine-is-urged-to-extend-autonomy-for-ethnic-hungarians.html

If this goes on , the whole map will be like a broken puzzle.
And once Ukraine is finished we should start splitting Romania , next Bulgaria and maybe Serbia once more?

We should include Romania into Hungary, because Romania was created by puppets of Ottoman empire using stolen hungarian lands.

Tara Romanesca gained independence from Hungary 400 years before becoming what is know as a ottoman pasalac.
Moldova was never under complete Hungarian rule , Poland had far more influence in the area.
Transilvania was briefly conquered but not the entire area just the Banat region was under ottoman influence and that ended long before the 1918 reunion.

So please don't trash my country history like that

.

Balthazar

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Activity: 3108

Merit: 1359

Quote from: niothor on May 15, 2014, 07:44:15 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 15, 2014, 04:03:51 AM

After the Russians, it is the turn of the Magyars. After them, it will be the Romanians and Bulgarians.

Hungarian PM Orbán demands autonomy for Hungarians in Ukraine

http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/hungarian_pm_orban_demands_autonomy_for_hungarians_in_ukraine.27766.html

Ukraine Is Urged to Extend Autonomy for Ethnic Hungarians

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-12/ukraine-is-urged-to-extend-autonomy-for-ethnic-hungarians.html

If this goes on , the whole map will be like a broken puzzle.
And once Ukraine is finished we should start splitting Romania , next Bulgaria and maybe Serbia once more?

We should include Romania into Hungary, because Romania was created by puppets of Ottoman empire using stolen hungarian lands.

niothor

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Activity: 826

Merit: 501

in defi we trust

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 15, 2014, 04:03:51 AM

After the Russians, it is the turn of the Magyars. After them, it will be the Romanians and Bulgarians.

Hungarian PM Orbán demands autonomy for Hungarians in Ukraine

http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/hungarian_pm_orban_demands_autonomy_for_hungarians_in_ukraine.27766.html

Ukraine Is Urged to Extend Autonomy for Ethnic Hungarians

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-12/ukraine-is-urged-to-extend-autonomy-for-ethnic-hungarians.html

If this goes on , the whole map will be like a broken puzzle.
And once Ukraine is finished we should start splitting Romania , next Bulgaria and maybe Serbia once more?

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3752

Merit: 1217

After the Russians, it is the turn of the Magyars. After them, it will be the Romanians and Bulgarians.

Hungarian PM Orbán demands autonomy for Hungarians in Ukraine

http://www.portfolio.hu/en/economy/hungarian_pm_orban_demands_autonomy_for_hungarians_in_ukraine.27766.html

Ukraine Is Urged to Extend Autonomy for Ethnic Hungarians

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-05-12/ukraine-is-urged-to-extend-autonomy-for-ethnic-hungarians.html

niothor

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in defi we trust

Quote from: Nemo1024 on May 14, 2014, 02:38:19 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on May 14, 2014, 01:53:43 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 14, 2014, 11:55:02 AM

The figures just don't add up. The total GDP for entire Ukraine is around $170 billion. So around 60% of that was from Crimea?

The GDP figure of $170 billion might be the official figure, i.e not including the underground economy. In nations such as Ukraine, most of the economy remains hidden.

That would be one explanation for such outburst.
Crimea was a region that got suckled lifeless by Ukraine. When I visited it in 2012, spending my vacation there, I had a feeling of returning to the end on 1980's. Nothing changed. No improvements. On the contrary, Yalta was a sorry sight, with many buildings ready to fall apart. The infrastructure was collapsing. Sevastopol was sightly better, while Simferopol was even worse.
All that despite a large visible amount of tourists, so the money were coming from tourism, yet none of it went to the development of the peninsula, but got redirected to the Kiev coffers.
By the way, Odessa, when I was there the same year, presented the same sight of neglect as Yalta.

Never been to Ukraine in the '80 but from what i recall my own country resorts during that time and the ones in Batumi , they looked far better than Yalta in 2011. Although I must say I spent only 2 days there while cruising the Black Sea.So I guess they haven't made any change or restoration since the split from the URSS.

But the loss would be indeed huge , and I doubt you can name a price for the entire territory and the possible revenue they could have made with a bit more interest and work.

Nemo1024

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Quote from: Sithara007 on May 14, 2014, 01:53:43 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 14, 2014, 11:55:02 AM

The figures just don't add up. The total GDP for entire Ukraine is around $170 billion. So around 60% of that was from Crimea?

The GDP figure of $170 billion might be the official figure, i.e not including the underground economy. In nations such as Ukraine, most of the economy remains hidden.

That would be one explanation for such outburst.
Crimea was a region that got suckled lifeless by Ukraine. When I visited it in 2012, spending my vacation there, I had a feeling of returning to the end on 1980's. Nothing changed. No improvements. On the contrary, Yalta was a sorry sight, with many buildings ready to fall apart. The infrastructure was collapsing. Sevastopol was sightly better, while Simferopol was even worse.
All that despite a large visible amount of tourists, so the money were coming from tourism, yet none of it went to the development of the peninsula, but got redirected to the Kiev coffers.
By the way, Odessa, when I was there the same year, presented the same sight of neglect as Yalta.

Paya

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They are probably counting not only the GDP but also the value of factories, ports, state buildings, land property, infrastructure, tourist centers, natural ressources, etc. Perhaps even expected profits. But I doubt that they can come out with accurate number at this point because it's not an easy calculation. For example Serbia is still studying how much exactly did it lose with the escape of Kosovo: what is certain there is that the rough numbers are MUCH bigger than Kosovo's GDP.

niothor

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Quote from: Sithara007 on May 14, 2014, 01:53:43 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 14, 2014, 11:55:02 AM

The figures just don't add up. The total GDP for entire Ukraine is around $170 billion. So around 60% of that was from Crimea?

The GDP figure of $170 billion might be the official figure, i.e not including the underground economy. In nations such as Ukraine, most of the economy remains hidden.

Why do you think he was referring to the gdp?
If my country would lose Dobrogea , which makes around 7% of the gdp the actual loses would be maybe two times the size of the GDP if you can even count them

Quote

Ukraine's interim President Oleksandr Turchynov said Wednesday that Russia's hotly disputed annexation of Crimea in March had cost his country around $100 billion

Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. - page 41. (Read 227070 times)