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Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. - page 44. (Read 227070 times)

legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
There is a third option. Wait out until the 25th and the Ukrainian presidential elections. Then talk with the actual legitimate government of Ukraine. I have a suspicion it'll be the chocolate king.

It'l be interesting to know whether the CIA will continue their support to Kiev if some of the neo-nazis win that election, such as Oleg Lyashko, Oleg Tyahnybok, or Dmytro Yarosh.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
There is a third option. Wait out until the 25th and the Ukrainian presidential elections. Then talk with the actual legitimate government of Ukraine. I have a suspicion it'll be the chocolate king.

If anything, referendums can be re-run in calmer conditions. Norway had two referendums about joining EU, both times voting 'no', so there's nothing wrong having two referendums about the same question.

In the meantime he should sugegst moving in UN peacekeeping forces under, say, Serbian command to avoid further massacres of the civilians.
sr. member
Activity: 334
Merit: 250
He is going to tell that the people expressed their legitimate view and (again) ask Kiev to allow their representatives to attend all future talks. Referendum has been held in the situation which was all but normal, and it is very likely that the process itself wasn't very "clean", but no one should ignore the fact that ALOT of people showed up to vote. There is an undeniably strong wish for greater autonomy among the Ukrainian citizens living in the eastern regions. Turning a blind eye on that, or even worse - supressing with (para)military, isn't acceptable any more (if it ever was).
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Difficult to forecast?  Oh really?
They already had the results one week before the referendum and they didn't have time to formulate at "attitude" =)))))

To be honest, Putin is caught between the devil and the deep sea. Here are his options.

Option 1, preferred by Putin: Let Donetsk and Lugansk remain in Ukraine, but with wide-ranging autonomy. The Kiev-junta will never agree to giving self-rule, as they too want to demolish the popularity of Putin back home in Russia.

Option 2: Armed invasion by Russia: Putin don't want this method, as he knows that making 7 million predominantly poor people the new Russian citizens will need tens of billions of USD every year in the form of salary, welfare and pensions. Also, sanctions will get a lot tougher and damage the Russian economy. The Kiev junta want to force Putin to do this step. If Putin invades Donbass, then the Russian economy will go in to a recession, and in the long term his popularity will nosedive. This might be the only chance to get Putin out of power.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust
Putin to formulate his attitude to referenda in Ukraine's south-east on their results

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/731185

Quote
President Vladimir Putin will formulate his attitude to the referenda, held on Sunday, on the status of the Donetsk and Lugansk Regions, "on the strength of their results", presidential press secretary Dmitry Peskov told the newspaper Kommersant. What the RF President's decision will be "is difficult to forecast", Peskov added.

Difficult to forecast?  Oh really?
They already had the results one week before the referendum and they didn't have time to formulate at "attitude" =)))))
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Putin to formulate his attitude to referenda in Ukraine's south-east on their results

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/731185

Quote
President Vladimir Putin will formulate his attitude to the referenda, held on Sunday, on the status of the Donetsk and Lugansk Regions, "on the strength of their results", presidential press secretary Dmitry Peskov told the newspaper Kommersant. What the RF President's decision will be "is difficult to forecast", Peskov added.
hero member
Activity: 826
Merit: 501
in defi we trust


Tou know as well as me how easily that can be faked with tor browsers
sr. member
Activity: 334
Merit: 250
About Montenegro referendum: 1:45:00 (The difference between yes and no was then a little over 1000 votes)

The difference was actually ~45.000 votes, still looks small at first glance but bear in mind that the Montenegro is tiny country with the total population of 600.000 citizens. Result of the referendum was: 55% for the independence, 45% against. Turnout: 86%.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
No voting booths?
A definitely saw some, as reported from various locations.
Also, check out this yesterdays broadcast of Vesti:
http://russia.tv/video/show/brand_id/5402/episode_id/986747/video_id/999088

About the Victory Day celebrations in Crimea: at 10:00

About the Odessa massacre at ~30:00 (The nazi admitting on camera that everything is coordinated with the local police, in a clip taken prior to the events)
They draw a parallel to the events leading up to NATO's invasion of Yugoslavia: a number of bloody provocations and massacres that were not reported by the Western media, then when people started to retaliate, it suddenly got reported on front pages as aggression, justifying an invasion.

About the referendum in South-East: at 45:00 (you can see the booths Cheesy)

About Montenegro referendum: 1:45:00 (The difference between yes and no was then a little over 1000 votes)

legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
The birth of a new country, the Donetsk People’s Republic

http://uprootedpalestinians.wordpress.com/2014/05/12/the-birth-of-a-new-country-the-donetsk-peoples-republic/

Quote
Pro-Russian separatists in Ukraine’s eastern Donetsk region have claimed a resounding victory in a “self-rule” referendum, saying 89% voted in favour. In Luhansk, another eastern region, the results – also expected to show a strong backing – will be released soon. BBC reporters at polling stations spoke of chaotic scenes, no voting booths in places and no electoral register. Ukraine called the vote a “criminal farce” organised by Russia. The EU and US also said the polls were illegal. Separatists claimed two people were killed by armed men loyal to Kiev in the city of Krasnoarmiisk.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
At last, some positive news from Putin's office:

Quote
Russian President Vladimir Putin will formulate his opinion on the referendums on the status of Donetsk and Lugansk regions “based on their results,” spokesman for the president, Dmitry Peskov told Kommersant newspaper. Peskov also clarified that Putin “did not urge, but recommended” for the votes to be postponed, however the spokesman says that “even considering the authority of the Russian President,” it was difficult for Donetsk and Lugansk authorities to follow his recommendation amid Kiev's ongoing military crackdown.
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1001
Ukraine Guardsmen Open Fire on Crowd

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/ukraine-guardsmen-open-fire-crowd-23674112

Quote
Armed men identified as Ukrainian national guard opened fire Sunday on a crowd outside a town hall in eastern Ukraine, and an official for the region's insurgents said there were fatalities.

The bloodshed in the town of Krasnoarmeisk occurred hours after dozens of armed men shut down voting in a referendum on sovereignty for the region. One of them identified the group as being national guardsmen.

An Associated Press photographer who witnessed the shooting said two people were seen lying unmoving on the ground and insurgent leader Denis Pushilin was quoted by the ITAR-Tass news agency as saying there were an unspecified number of deaths.

Several hours earlier, the men came to the town about 30 kilometers (20 miles) from the regional capital, Donetsk, and dispersed referendum voting that was taking place outside the town hall and they took control of the building. In the evening, more arrived in a van and a scuffle broke out with people who were gathered around the building. Then they fired shots.
These are the types our govt wants to support. Angry
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Just watched a documentary drawing parallels between the technology of destruction of Yugoslavia and Ukraine. The signature of the criminals, their motives and their opportunities seem to be similar.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
Let people decide who they are, and where thye want to be. That should be the guiding principle.

You are right but the problem is that the current situation in Ukraine is a result of manipulations of Putin. The amount of propaganda being used in eastern regions of Ukraine is gigantic. People there are confused and don't know who to trust, also we need to remember that referendum should be made in time of peace to be legal.

manipulation or not, im litterraly shocked by those last events in odessa and co.. those so called pro-ukrainians are proper racist savages and people there are lucky to at least have someone trying to protect them from these thugs. no need trust, just look at who is being the most violent. fucking fucktards! its horrible! how can you ever trust the people setting a whole building on fire with ukranian citizens inside and shooting on sight whoever tries to escape the flames by jumping out of the windows? tssss they deserve fucking hell and i hope putin brings it on.
How do You know that these "pro-ukrainians" are really "pro-ukrainians"? When Crimea was being taken from Ukraine the armed men who supposedly where citizens of Crimea where probably Russian soldiers.

well the people that were burned alive, butchered or raped inside the building werent identified as pro-ukranians.

Again how do You know that? who was doing the identifications? how do You that the killers where not... lets say a Russian agents in disguise?


Hey Snorek, you still there?!  Roll Eyes


ODESSA 5/02: The Untold Truth of Kulikovo Field

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja4c8sHHhSE

Absolutely disgusting.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Early indications say that somewhere around 60% and 80% polling is possible in Lugansk and Donetsk for the independence referendums. Most of the pro-Kiev people are boycotting the polls.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
ODESSA 5/02: The Untold Truth of Kulikovo Field

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ja4c8sHHhSE
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWSm7FRUuDo

Quote
Укpaинcтвo этo нeдyг кoтopый cпocoбeн пoдтoчить дaжe caмый cильный нaциoнaльный opгaнизм и нeт ocyждeния кoтopoe дocтaтoчнo былo бы для этoгo дoбpoвoльнoгo caмopaзpyшeния!"
гaлицкий пyблициcт, oбщecтвeнный дeятeль и иcтopик Ocип Moнчaлoвcкий (1904 г.)
Tapac Шeвчeнкo: «Эти люди, мaлopoccийcкoгo кopня, вo вcex дeлax и нaчинaнияx иcxoдят eдинcтвeннo из aлчнocти, в ниx нeт чyвcтвa жaлocти, cocтpaдaния, нeт и нaмeкa нa чecть и чecтнocть».
Cтeпaн (Штeфaн) Бaндepa oб yкpaинцax: «Cвiдoмий yкpaїнeць зoбoв'язaний бyти тyпим i дeбiльним. Якщo cвiдoмий yкpaїнeць нe є тyпим i дeбiльним, вiн aвтoмaтичнo cтaє жидoм aбo мocкaлeм...»
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