Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. - page 43.

Nemo1024

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1014

Duma calls on world parliaments to prevent humanitarian disaster in Ukraine
http://rt.com/politics/158604-duma-ukraine-humanitarian-disaster/

Quote

Russian MPs suggest a new international contact group on the basis of PACE that would help stop the armed standoff in Ukraine and prevent the looming humanitarian disaster in the country.

...

The letter will be forwarded to the PACE, the Parliamentary Assembly of the OSCE, the Asian-Pacific Parliamentary Assembly, Pan-African Parliament and to the Russian Foreign Ministry, which will forward it to parliaments of the world through diplomatic channels.

Comments from readers:

Quote

Wonron Kukumbachi 13.05.2014 16:34
> Templar Knight 13.05.2014 13:33
>America is looking for WMT's (Weapons of Mass Terrorism) in East Ukraine as an excuse for military intervention to "save" the poor people from nasty referendums. Bombs Away!

Its called evacuation! The Kiev junta sent SS guard troops to "evacuate" people from voting places and kill those who refuse to be saved from democracy. Kinda like Romania, they love so much democracy that they kill anyone who is against it!

I almost hear niothor's outcry against that last comment...

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 1217

Some sane voices do exist in Western Europe. Grin

EU policy to blame for Ukraine crisis - Ex-Chancellor Schroeder

http://rt.com/news/158432-schroeder-russia-sanctions-eu/

Quote

Germany’s former Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder has blamed European Union policy for the current situation in Ukraine and urged the West to stop focusing on new sanctions against Russia. In Schroeder’s opinion, the EU’s fundamental mistake - that subsequently led to the ongoing crisis in Ukraine – was its association policy, he said in an interview with German newspaper Welt am Sonntag published Sunday.

zolace

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

Since the Ukraine crisis started it reminded me a lot of the Balkans crisis in the early '90s, I am really affraid for the people of Ukraine at the moment. And apart from that the whole crisis brings a great destibilization to the world, since the annexation of Crimea regions litteraly is Russia saying, all of the agreements we signed in the '90s when we were weak, that say we support the independence of the newly formed countries, are no longer valid. And on the other side US and EU are speeding up the proccess of Georgia, Balkans and other countries in the vicinty of Russia integration into the NATO.

Nemo1024

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1014

Came across Berkut's page on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/BERKUT-Ukraine/574477605978934?fref=nf

Turchinov wants to prohibit Communist Party of Ukraine:
http://lenta.ru/news/2014/05/13/kpu/

Ukrainian authorities classified The People's Republic of Donetsk and the People's Republic of Lugansk as terrorist organisations:
http://www.newsru.com/world/13may2014/terrgroups.html
(Let the carpet bombings begin, eh!? By extension, a few million people living there that voted for independence are terrorists. By extension, the whole of USA are terrorists when they proclaimed their independence from Great Britain. Yes, let the carpet bombings begin...)

Nemo1024

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1014

Quote from: Rassah on May 12, 2014, 05:46:08 PM

Personally, if they want independence, I have no issues with that, but I ca't imagine Putin allowing that to happen, and would guess that he would do everything he can (seeding unrest, propaganda, ballot stuffing) to add those regions to Russia. My concern is that those people would quickly find out that being a part of Russia is not as great as it sounds, but the difference is that, while they could easily protest and secede from Ukraine, doing that while being a part of Russia would quickly invite an overwhelming force, followed by long jail terms for whoever came up with the idea.

Can't see that on Putin's agenda now - too expensive both politically and economically. These two regions may end up acting as buffer states, that what Ukraine was expected to be.

Of course, if NATO sends its bombers and hardware to those two regions (they are already discussing the latter), then the game would change.

In the meantime, Russia is shaming EU

Russia disappointed over additional EU sanctions
http://rt.com/news/158536-russia-disappointed-eu-sanctions/

Quote

“Instead of trying to solve the situation through de-escalation, disarmament of the Right Sector, improvement of dialogue between Kiev’s authorities and Ukrainian regions, EU colleagues are demonstrating a one-sided and one-dimensional policy, not worthy of the European Union,” Itar-Tass quoted Deputy Foreign Minister Sergey Ryabkov as saying.

Nice reader comments:

Quote

Fred 13.05.2014 07:35

[quote name='Wonron Kukumbachi' time='13.05.2014 07:21']

Exactly and there was no problem when Slovenia voted for indenpendence which was against the law. They didn't mind Croatia and Kosovo self proclamation of indenpendace. They didn't obey inernational law when they attacked Yugoslavia, they didn't care when 500 000 children died in Iraq ...

[/quote ]

This is the MAIN point of it !
Referendum Illegal in East-Ukraine ?
Then USA and Nato HAS to give back Kosovo to Serbia ... !
Can't wait what stunt they are going to invent for Scotland ... ;-))

Oh, a new Op-Edge at RT, now with former Reagan administration official Paul Craig Roberts:

Russia should ignore Washington's 'new Cold War'
http://rt.com/op-edge/158532-russia-ignore-cold-war/

Quote

RT: The way that some US officials are speaking, it seems that NATO seriously believes that Russia is set to invade the Baltic states.

PCR: What this is all about is that Washington had hoped to grab Ukraine, especially the Russian naval base in Crimea, in order to cut Russia off from the port and access to the Mediterranean. Now, Washington lost that game. They're trying to retrieve it by starting a new Cold War, and that's what all this talk is about.

Rassah

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1035

Donetsk, Luhansk steam through another Soviet-style vote

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/donetsk-steams-through-another-soviet-style-vote-so-now-what-347345.html

Quote

But the votes needed not to be tallied to know the result. It was clear from the beginning and made even more apparent throughout the day, as Soviet-style tactics of ballot stuffing, manipulation and intimidation were observed at polling stations across the regions: the referendums in the so-called “people’s republics” of Donetsk and Luhansk would pass.
...
There have been several reports and captures of Russian spies on the territory of Ukraine, according to the Security Service of Ukraine. They have been caught with weapons, explosives and over the weekend in Sloviansk boxes with thousands of secession ballots pre-marked with “yes.”

I remember when living in Soviet Union, that even there we had "democratic" elections of leaders. They were mostly all for candidates who were running unopposed for the communist party, or elections between two people, with votes for one of them being only used to see who should be blacklisted and later interrogated.

Also,

Quote

Despite the results of the referendums, polls show that most voters in eastern Ukraine would prefer to stay a part of the country, in contrast to Crimea, where polling data showed a majority in favor of seceding.

Personally, if they want independence, I have no issues with that, but I ca't imagine Putin allowing that to happen, and would guess that he would do everything he can (seeding unrest, propaganda, ballot stuffing) to add those regions to Russia. My concern is that those people would quickly find out that being a part of Russia is not as great as it sounds, but the difference is that, while they could easily protest and secede from Ukraine, doing that while being a part of Russia would quickly invite an overwhelming force, followed by long jail terms for whoever came up with the idea.

Nemo1024

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1014

Quote from: niothor on May 12, 2014, 01:39:49 PM

that can be hardly called a war

That was a border skirmish, yes. And Chinese were not keen on more conflict since then.

One more interesting bit of news. The current Kiev leaders could get Yanukivich's head for display in a freezer, so they settle for selling his blazers:
http://www.rosbalt.ru/ukraina/2014/05/12/1267215.html

Grin

On a more serious and hopeful note, 102 reserve soldiers deserted from Ukrainian army in Zhitomir, which is in the North-West of Ukraine:
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1180650?utm_medium=rss20

NATO investigates the possibility to provide material military aid to Ukraine:
http://ria.ru/world/20140512/1007529281.html
Phase two begins?

niothor

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 501

in defi we trust

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 12, 2014, 10:29:29 AM

Quote from: niothor on May 12, 2014, 08:31:45 AM

That russian-chinese border is not where both side want it for real.

Although the USSR and the PRC fought a disastrous war over the border in 1969, an agreement acceptable to China was reached in 1991 (the Sino-Russian border agreement, where the disputed area was ceded to China by Russia). Both sides are happy with the border as of now.

that can be hardly called a war

Nemo1024

legendary

Activity: 1680

Merit: 1014

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 12, 2014, 10:29:29 AM

Quote from: niothor on May 12, 2014, 08:31:45 AM

That russian-chinese border is not where both side want it for real.

Although the USSR and the PRC fought a disastrous war over the border in 1969, an agreement acceptable to China was reached in 1991 (the Sino-Russian border agreement, where the disputed area was ceded to China by Russia). Both sides are happy with the border as of now.

And both countries ratified their common border with UN, something that has not been done with Ukraine.

Further on the topic of Ukraine, a lonely voice of reason in US.

Ron Paul: Why is US involved in Ukraine?
http://rt.com/usa/158448-ron-paul-us-involved-ukraine/

Quote

“The US sees this as a Russian-sponsored destabilization effort, but is it so hard to understand that the people in Ukraine may be annoyed with the US and EU for their involvement in regime change in their country?” he asked. “Would we be so willing to accept an unelected government in Washington put in place with the backing of the Chinese and Iranians?”

Sanctions, what sanctions? Tongue

France refuses to block Mistral warship deal with Russia
http://rt.com/news/158468-france-russia-mistral-deal/

Quote

"The Mistrals are not part of the third level of sanctions. They will be delivered. The contract has been paid and there would be financial penalties for not delivering it.

"It would be France that is penalized. It's too easy to say France has to give up on the sale of the ships. We have done our part," the official said.

Oh, this is what Ukraine needs! The Ukrainian Minister of Economic development announced that all state investments into Ukrainian industry will be frozen.
http://itar-tass.com/ekonomika/1181058?utm_medium=rss20
This is done to not enforce further social austerity.

SBU got warning about preparation of assassinations against Yatsenjuk and Turchinov , as well as Presidential candidates Bogomolec, Dobkin, Ljashko, Poroshenko, Tigipko, Timoshenko and Tjagnobok. And they reacted to these threats by increasing the spendings on their guarding.
http://ria.ru/world/20140512/1007502286.html

What all of them at once?

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 1217

Quote from: niothor on May 12, 2014, 08:31:45 AM

That russian-chinese border is not where both side want it for real.

Although the USSR and the PRC fought a disastrous war over the border in 1969, an agreement acceptable to China was reached in 1991 (the Sino-Russian border agreement, where the disputed area was ceded to China by Russia). Both sides are happy with the border as of now.

niothor

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 501

in defi we trust

Quote from: Paya on May 12, 2014, 07:58:37 AM

I don't think that the China would acknowledge secession of Donbas, let alone joining the Russia. Iirc, they weren't happy with annexation of Crimea and their current grumbling could easily turn into the open condemnation of Russia - if Moscow decides to push further. Hell, not even the Belarus cheered Putin's Crimean move. Total blockade of Russia with catastrophic consequences to their highly export-dependant economy shouldn't be written off, apparently Putin suspects this, therefore he is starting to act very carefully. He is pretty much alone and he knows it.

China has indeed some fears about those Russian moves , but I guess it can see some opportunities also.
That russian-chinese border is not where both side want it for real.

Paya

sr. member

Activity: 334

Merit: 250

I don't think that the China would acknowledge secession of Donbas, let alone joining the Russia. Iirc, they weren't happy with annexation of Crimea and their current grumbling could easily turn into the open condemnation of Russia - if Moscow decides to push further. Hell, not even the Belarus cheered Putin's Crimean move. Total blockade of Russia with catastrophic consequences to their highly export-dependant economy shouldn't be written off, apparently Putin suspects this, therefore he is starting to act very carefully. He is pretty much alone and he knows it.

niothor

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 501

in defi we trust

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 12, 2014, 06:54:58 AM

Quote from: niothor on May 12, 2014, 06:26:20 AM

So , do you think china will follow the un sanctions? And drive it's whole economy into the ground because of the us?

That depends on who imposes the sanctions. If it is the EU / US, then China won't care. But if the UN agencies decide to impose an embargo or sanction, then even China will be forced to comply with it.

Don't they have the right of veto on those decisions?
As i remember there are 5 members with this power and two of them are china and Russia.

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 1217

Quote from: niothor on May 12, 2014, 06:26:20 AM

So , do you think china will follow the un sanctions? And drive it's whole economy into the ground because of the us?

That depends on who imposes the sanctions. If it is the EU / US, then China won't care. But if the UN agencies decide to impose an embargo or sanction, then even China will be forced to comply with it.

niothor

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 501

in defi we trust

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 12, 2014, 06:13:34 AM

Quote from: niothor on May 12, 2014, 05:52:22 AM

And again you discussed that before with me and at that time you claimed that there is no way for other counties to supply the eu and us with gas/oil , and you also claimed that Russia will find new partners in the east.

Well.. if the UN imposes sancitons, then no country can buy Russia's oil and gas. That includes those nations in the east, such as China and Japan. And another thing is that petroleum will top $300 a barrel if something like that actually happens. Grin

So , do you think china will follow the un sanctions? And drive it's whole economy into the ground because of the us?

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 1217

Quote from: niothor on May 12, 2014, 05:52:22 AM

And again you discussed that before with me and at that time you claimed that there is no way for other counties to supply the eu and us with gas/oil , and you also claimed that Russia will find new partners in the east.

Well.. if the UN imposes sancitons, then no country can buy Russia's oil and gas. That includes those nations in the east, such as China and Japan. And another thing is that petroleum will top $300 a barrel if something like that actually happens. Grin

niothor

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 501

in defi we trust

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 12, 2014, 05:49:35 AM

Quote from: niothor on May 12, 2014, 05:45:05 AM

Why do you say that , you claimed that sanctions will have no effect and had no effect before. Why did your attitude change?

I said that the current set of sanctions will have no effect on the Russian economy. But if they ban the oil and gas imports from Russia, that will be really bad for the Russian economy.

And again you discussed that before with me and at that time you claimed that there is no way for other counties to supply the eu and us with gas/oil , and you also claimed that Russia will find new partners in the east.

ENEWIT

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 12, 2014, 05:41:03 AM

Quote from: Nemo1024 on May 12, 2014, 04:43:15 AM

There is a third option. Wait out until the 25th and the Ukrainian presidential elections. Then talk with the actual legitimate government of Ukraine. I have a suspicion it'll be the chocolate king.

It'l be interesting to know whether the CIA will continue their support to Kiev if some of the neo-nazis win that election, such as Oleg Lyashko, Oleg Tyahnybok, or Dmytro Yarosh. Grin

ITA!
I would like to see that!

While on the other hand, I want to make this revolution ended ASAP.

bryant.coleman

legendary

Activity: 3766

Merit: 1217

Quote from: niothor on May 12, 2014, 05:45:05 AM

Why do you say that , you claimed that sanctions will have no effect and had no effect before. Why did your attitude change?

I said that the current set of sanctions will have no effect on the Russian economy. But if they ban the oil and gas imports from Russia, that will be really bad for the Russian economy.

niothor

hero member

Activity: 826

Merit: 501

in defi we trust

Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 12, 2014, 04:19:56 AM

Quote from: niothor on May 12, 2014, 04:11:41 AM

Difficult to forecast? Oh really?
They already had the results one week before the referendum and they didn't have time to formulate at "attitude" =)))))

To be honest, Putin is caught between the devil and the deep sea. Here are his options.

Option 1, preferred by Putin: Let Donetsk and Lugansk remain in Ukraine, but with wide-ranging autonomy. The Kiev-junta will never agree to giving self-rule, as they too want to demolish the popularity of Putin back home in Russia.

Option 2: Armed invasion by Russia: Putin don't want this method, as he knows that making 7 million predominantly poor people the new Russian citizens will need tens of billions of USD every year in the form of salary, welfare and pensions. Also, sanctions will get a lot tougher and damage the Russian economy. The Kiev junta want to force Putin to do this step. If Putin invades Donbass, then the Russian economy will go in to a recession, and in the long term his popularity will nosedive. This might be the only chance to get Putin out of power.

Why do you say that , you claimed that sanctions will have no effect and had no effect before. Why did your attitude change?

But honestly i don't think he is in that tough situation. He can simply ignore it.

I didn't do it

. Have nothing to do with it

Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. - page 43. (Read 227096 times)