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Topic: Meanwhile in Ukraine... Revolution. - page 49. (Read 227070 times)

legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
The best way to stop wars is launching of Kennedy operation against Obama, McCain and the rest of idiots in Washington Obkom. Or, maybe, somebody should drop some molotov cocktails there, at least.

Do you actually believe that if USA completely pulls out of Ukraine, that Russia will stop spreading propaganda about scary Ukrainian Nazis, that freaked out Russians will stop trying to seize government buildings and try to break free, and that Ukraine will just stop defending itself and let extremists take over buildings and anex its territories that still have Ukrainians living in them?
I'm sorry for strong words, but I'm reading your messages during long time and I have to say this. There is a difference between blind faith and knowledge. It's unfortunately but you have nothing more than obsession with faith into your own perverted version of history, while I possess the knowledge. If you don't know something then ask two opposite persons at least and make your choice without using any emotional experience from the past. If you wish to become someone greater than ignorant fanatic, then you have to forget everything what you have seen in BBC, CNN, bullshit textbooks and start analyze facts, you must be able to think without any help from anybody.

Of course you are free to believe whatever you want, your faith it's not my deal. But please, don't try convert me to your sect ever.

Talking about your question... I don't believe, I know it. There were no nationality and language issues during the last 70 years at least. You are talking about "russians" while having no idea that there are no differences between "russians" and "ukrainians", they are the same people. They were on these lands even before Russian Empire was formed. And nobody had any problem before your fucken EU decided to fund nazi parties in the beginning of 1990s and then stage a nazi coup here. There were no attempts to seize weapons or government buildings before paid nazi activists started all this shit in the beginning of year. Remove the junta, ban nazi parties and everybody will go home. It's the only possible solution, and east will do it eventually anyway... Through creating new federative state or another coup, time will tell.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Ballot paper for the Peoples Republic of Donetsk referendum on Sunday: Independence - yes or not?

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
The best way to stop wars is launching of Kennedy operation against Obama, McCain and the rest of idiots in Washington Obkom. Or, maybe, somebody should drop some molotov cocktails there, at least.

Do you actually believe that if USA completely pulls out of Ukraine, that Russia will stop spreading propaganda about scary Ukrainian Nazis, that freaked out Russians will stop trying to seize government buildings and try to break free, and that Ukraine will just stop defending itself and let extremists take over buildings and anex its territories that still have Ukrainians living in them?

Yes, because you need to remember who actually started seizing government buildings in the first place.
There was no "Russian scare" before Nuland-maidan.

As for your history allegations. Your interpretation of Russian history is in complete discord with both Russian and Western historians.


legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
The best way to stop wars is launching of Kennedy operation against Obama, McCain and the rest of idiots in Washington Obkom. Or, maybe, somebody should drop some molotov cocktails there, at least.

Do you actually believe that if USA completely pulls out of Ukraine, that Russia will stop spreading propaganda about scary Ukrainian Nazis, that freaked out Russians will stop trying to seize government buildings and try to break free, and that Ukraine will just stop defending itself and let extremists take over buildings and anex its territories that still have Ukrainians living in them?
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
And to answer your question, there was not much choice to begin with.
Ukraine is an artificial state, built from incompatible regions, grabbed from other states (Russia, Poland, Hungary, Romania) each with its own dominating ethnic group, language and mindset.
Plus during its existence as a state, it existed as a part of USSR, with tight economic and industrial integration with the republics, mainly Russia and Belorussia.

This is actually a lie created by Russia's ruling monarchs in the 1700's. The part about Kiev region being a gift from Russian tsars in the 1600's is especially laughable, considering Kievan Rus/Ukraine had already existed independent of Russia for about 800 years by that point. Ukraine was Kievan Rus for centuries, while Moscow was part of the Golden Horde empire. It was only much much later that Moscow renamed itself Russia, to try to fit with Kievan Rus, and secretly wrote a whole bunch of made up history to male it seem as if Russia's origins came from Kievan Rus as well. Russia and it's history had nothing to do with Ukraine or Kief outside of it invading and occupying parts of Ukraine, most recently as part of USSR. Ukraine was always it's own country, though parts of it have been occupied by its neighboring countries, such as Tatar and Communist ruled Russia to the East, and Poland to the west. Some of the outskirts on the borders have been desputed though.
If anything, it's Russia that is a failing state, always ruled by totalitarian despots, in a perpetual state of emperialist expansion followed by inevitable collapse. Ukraine has existed for over 1,000 years, with idiots claiming that it's a failed state, or actually belongs to someone else constantly. But history is hard to change when contrary evidence keeps surviving.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
Odessa: Ukraine’s Waco

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/05/04/odessa-ukraines-waco

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Imagine if the roles had been reversed, with the pro-Russians outside the building and the pro-Kiev "activists" inside.

*Sigh* I'm really disappointed to even see antiwar.com getting swept up in this. Why in the fuck would pro-Kiev activists attack and storm their own government building, and why would pro-Russian outside attack a building full of pro-Kiev activists inside?
Oh wait, that actually happened. So even in this example, the pro-Russian attackers would be in the wrong.
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Released military observer: ‘We were shot at by Ukrainian army’

http://rt.com/news/157108-osce-observers-shot-ukraine

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“We exited Slavyansk and headed in the direction of Donetsk. Having passed the first line of Ukrainian units, consisting of armored personnel carriers, we moved on to Kramatorsk, arriving at another Ukrainian military checkpoint, which refused to grant us passage. They opened fire on us. At that point things really took a turn for the worse,” Přerovský, who was among the observers, Itar-Tass reported the Pravo newspaper as saying. “We somehow managed to reach Kiev by phone, but this changed nothing. In the end we had to bypass Kramatorsk and travel on virgin soil, which is very dangerous. What was most upsetting was getting pulled over by the Ukrainian army, which was supposed to be assisting us,” Přerovský said.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035

"Glory to the heroes" is translated as "Seig heil?" What the fuck kind of bullshit is this?
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
15 Ukrainian pilots refused to rescue a downed comrade.

http://112.ua/obshchestvo/senchenko-voennyh-kotorye-otkazalis-spasat-ekipazh-sbitogo-pod-slavyanskom-vertoleta-zhdet-sud-58511.html

BTW... Obama should keep this in mind while imposing new sanctions against Russia over the Ukraine issue. Some of the largest trade partners for Russia are from Asia:



legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035


38 people radicals die after attacking a public building and getting into a confrontation with locals, which may have resulted in a Molotov cocktail, thrown by an unknown side, setting the Trade Unions House on fire in Ukraine's Odessa

At least 38 anti-government activists pro-Russian radicals died in fire at Odessa’s Trade Unions House after suffocating with smoke or jumping out of windows of the burning building, Ukrainian Interior Ministry reported. The building was set ablaze by the pro-Kiev radicals a Molotov cocktail, though it is not known which side it belonged to.

Some 50 people, including 10 police officers, were also injured in the incident, the official statement said. It was not immediately clear whether those injured in Friday street clashes in Odessa were included in those numbers.

According to the ministry, the Friday standoff on Odessa included “anti-Maidan” activists on one side and “football fans” from Odessa and Kharkov, as well as "euro-Maidan" activists, on the other. A criminal case on the charges of mass unrest has been opened.

The Trade Unions House was set on caught fire by after pro-Kiev radicals Ukrainian locals after they , in an attempt to defend their own country from pro-Russian extremists, surrounded and destroyed the tent camp of anti-government activists that stood in front of the building on Odessa’s Kulikovo Field Square. It was torched in a storming attempt after some of the anti-Maidan activists pro-Russian radicals rallying in the square barricaded themselves inside the building.

Thirty of the victims were found on the floors of the building having apparently suffocated to death with smoke. Eight more died after jumping out of the burning Trade Union House’s windows, according to police.

Earlier Witness reports of the clashes in Odessa said that both sides used Molotov cocktails and, allegedly, gunfire.

A live video stream from inside the building showed disturbing scenes of supposedly dead bodies lying around the rooms with thick smoke in the air and blood stains on the floor.



http://rt.com/news/156480-odessa-fire-protesters-dead/



FIFY
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
^^^^^ Add Irma Krat to that list (leader of the female-wing of Right Sector, currently detained by the Donetsk People's Army in Slavyansk for taking part in the murder of 4 civilians):



legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359


"Miss Transnistria
Miss Cimea
Miss Ukraine"

 Grin

First is Nina Shtanski, Minister of Foreign Affairs of Transnistrian Moldovan Republic (wikipedia)
Second is Natalia Poklonskaya, Prosecutor General of the Republic of Crimea (wikipedia)
Third is Tatjana Chernovol, active figure of maidan unrest in the center of Kiev, anti-schizophrenia drug addict (youtube, scan of official response to request of her mental health condition)
legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Kiev Junta leader Oleksandr Turchynov has dismissed Volodymyr Nemyrovsky, the governor of Odesa Oblast, in the wake of the Right Sector massacre that left 48 people dead on May 2 in the Trade Union building. Nemyrovsky will be replaced by Ihor Palitsu, whom Insider.ua, a business news website, calls a close ally of Dnipropetrovsk governor Ihor Kolomoysky.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
Stop war and choose the wy of peace:)

Someone's trying, and it ain't US:
New talks on Ukraine doubtful unless opposition takes part – Lavrov
http://rt.com/news/157080-lavrov-press-conference-ukraine/

Quote
"Once again gathering in the same format, when the opposition to the current regime in Ukraine is absent from the negotiating table, this will hardly change anything," Lavrov said at a news conference on the sidelines of a Council of Europe ministers' meeting in Vienna. "It’s possible [to continue on this path] of course, but we will just go around in a circle and once again speak about how everything that we’ve agreed on needs to be implemented."

Lavrov said he remained hopeful that national dialogue could produce results in Ukraine.

“We are convinced that there is a way out of the crisis. It can be found exclusively on the basis of a national dialogue," - he said, adding that it should take place between the western and eastern regions of the country.

More quotes:

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“Carrying out an election in a situation when the army is being used against parts of the population – that is sufficiently unusual. This isn’t Afghanistan, where a war is going on, and nonetheless, elections were held,” he said.

Quote
“I’m quoting to you an announcement made by NATO’s ministers of defense this past February, in which they demanded that the army not be allowed to interfere in the political process, and [further] demanded that the army remain neutral. That was when the fully valid president was Viktor Yanukovich,” Lavrov said.

But now the leadership of the EU has changed their tune, Russia's FM added, saying that Kiev "has every right to use the army to carry out the so-called anti-terrorist operation, and that all this is justified because the state has a monopoly on the use of force.”
legendary
Activity: 3108
Merit: 1359
The best way to stop wars is launching of Kennedy operation against Obama, McCain and the rest of idiots in Washington Obkom. Or, maybe, somebody should drop some molotov cocktails there, at least.
full member
Activity: 212
Merit: 104
Stop war and choose the wy of peace:)
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
chaos is fun...…damental :)
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
This lady in Kramatorsk says she will defend her children if the Right Sector Nazis approach them:



I guess not many veterans of WWII thought that they'd have to take to arms to defeat fascism for the second time in their lifetimes.  Undecided



For the first time in 69 years the celebration of defeat of Nazi forces will be commemorated in Kiev using the European memory symbol, red poppy, instead of the St.George ribbon:
http://itar-tass.com/mezhdunarodnaya-panorama/1168788?utm_medium=rss20

77% of Russians are worried about the possibility of war between Ukraine and Russia, while 34% think that Russia is already at war with Ukraine.
http://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/2014/05/06/n_6132885.shtml

legendary
Activity: 3752
Merit: 1217
Ukraine Defence Ministry introduces restricted air-traffic in all areas within 100 km of Russian/Belarus/Transnistria borders. Donetsk & Lugansk declared as no-fly zones.

Image of Mi-24 that was shotdown in Slavyansk on 5-5-2014:



Activists' reports say there are battles happening in Semenivka (near Kramatorsk).

This lady in Kramatorsk says she will defend her children if the Right Sector Nazis approach them:

legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
The best thing they can do is burn the resources, burn the pipelines, sow the ground with salt, anything to make the Ukraine worthless otherwise the trouble wont end until they're slaves of one side or the other.

Even that won't help, as the ground would still be worth a lot for building NATO military bases right on Russia's border.

And to answer your question, there was not much choice to begin with.
Ukraine is an artificial state, built from incompatible regions, grabbed from other states (Russia, Poland, Hungary, Romania) each with its own dominating ethnic group, language and mindset.
Plus during its existence as a state, it existed as a part of USSR, with tight economic and industrial integration with the republics, mainly Russia and Belorussia.

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