Topic: Mixers to be banned - page 3. (Read 23006 times)

After reading the post a couple of questions do rightfully come to mind. How are those funds being spent apart from paying for the regular server/hosting fees and moderators salary? If the forum reserves are sufficient enough to buy an island, one will always ask the question about why the new/updated forum was never completed.

What exactly are the donated funds going to be spent on?

Most likely beyond existing infrastructure costs, the admins are not going to spend any more money on other stuff.

The forum reserves should be good enough to buy an island.

Maybe it is time to start our own republic somewhere in the ocean.

That way we can tell the US to gf himself.

To be honest, I expected this to happen when discussions about the mixer ban started.
Not really into forum politics but I do know there's a lot of BTC in forum reserves and this seemed like a perfect opportunity to use it for the betterment of the forum in general.

I still hope some of the senior members will step up soon, theymos included. There are a lot of smart heads here and surely there's a better option available.

I tried to find a specific post where Jambler was mentioned but I guess that does not matter now. Jambler has been disallowed, that is the end of the matter.

As for your losses or potential losses, I have read several posts about the numbers you point to and I genuinely feel sorry about that. That bespoke signature arrangement you had was quite some deal. I have no idea about US laws and how they affected your income and associated tax but I hope you find other revenue streams soon.

Fun fact, I made a list of Bitcoin mixers (outside Bitcointalk) where it is possible to compare each mixer, the features they offer, and the service fee... But I can't include Jambler as a mixer in that comparison table, because it doesn't have any of those parameters. 


Bitcointalk has been banned in Russia, but who cares.
Maybe it's time to think about moving the forum to a friendlier zone until the new limitations come.

Well theymos added jambler to the mix. So likely we need it to stay open in case more is added to ban mix.

With The activation of new federal laws in the USA 🇺🇸 theymos will need to step carefully.

Here is hoping that things go in a better direction sooner than later .

 The mixer ban cost me 6 or 7k as I lost that signature.
 The USA laws that activated this year cost me 40k mining income maybe less maybe more.
 It has been a difficult 2024 so far.

The thread will always be an active reference points but sufficient time must have passed by now for the message to have filtered through therefore the thread might better be served if it is locked. Several recent posts here certainly should not have been allowed to remain. The quality of some of the posts are of a sub-standard enough level to be called in to question.

I'm talking about an autonomous AI/robot that decides independently it's worth mining BTC.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this doesn't go against the 3 Laws of Robotics.

They are going to ask to change the algo of such AIs or charge the owner of these entities with a crime.

Or are you referring to AIs with human rights?  

What if an AI entity decides to start mining BTC? What is the IRS gonna do?

This is bound to happen within the next 10-20 years...

Hopefully USA will be humbled by then.

Realistically, I think it will lead to a chain reorg and the block disappearing again. Ideally, it should lead to a Fork, in which the majority of Bitcoin users chooses the chain without censorship as the real one.

What if you solo mine a block? Are you supposed to declare who paid you $400k? Would they want a name?

Like: "I, philipma1957, created this money out of thin air"? Weird laws!

Censorship is

source: https://www.oxfordreference.com/display/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803095558166

So by definition, censorship already exists as far as BTC transactions are concerned, the foundation is there and some miners already practice it, so we are past that point already, what you are describing as something that "can't happen" is "banning" transactions, as long as there exist blocks that are mined by any miner that is not participating in the censorship, a complete ban is not possible.

 The great danger of all that hash power in the U.S or any other country for that matter, is the fact that they are all subject to the same rules, written by the same group of people, which is why I have always emphasized that the physical centralization of hash power is a lot more dangerous than the centralization of the mining pools, it's worth noting that any hash power that is located in any U.S puppet counties is also subject to same rules.

Bear in mind that I had the same concern when the hash power resided in China, with the expectation that back then another huge portion of the hashrate was located in the U.S. and many other places that are not subject to the CCP's rules, the CCP ban on mining brought great damage to BTC centralization and we won't see it until it's too late, the U.S government/lawmakers will eventually crack down on a dozen things BTC related, every U.S miner will have no choice but to abide by the law.

This may be too far stretched but I'd imagine the next big move from them would be the usage of a whitelisting approach rather than black listing, whereby only KYCed addresses are allowed to transact freely on the blockchain, every U.S miner would need to include only the whitelisted transactions, and excuses such "I don't construct my own blocks" isn't going to cut it.


You may still argue that if 25% of the hashrate is out of the U.S reach, all those transactions will still go through once every 4 blocks, but that will also make those transactions a lot more expensive and eventually probably even worth a lot less since they won't be able to "mix" with the other transactions, it would be like having forked BTC without actually forking it, that's very bad for the fungibility of BTC.

I think it's quite evident that governments worldwide and especially the U.S did not attempt to destroy BTC a decade ago when doing so was relatively easy, simply because they understood exactly how it works and they allowed it to grow, and they had a plan of how to control it when the time comes, and as far as things seem to me right now, they have already got the keys -- it's all those large miners located in the U.S.

Very impressive! Must bow down to that!

---

Side note here, since I saw my name mentioned -- I was not aware of a particular friendship between Little Mouse and Royse. Also, I confirm that Little Mouse and I had some deals in the past and they worked in a professional and nice manner.

Can you speak a little more to this.  I guess I haven't kept up with the new law you're speaking of and have some research to do.  Feel free to point me in the right direction.

How does using Nicehash mitigate this new law?  Do they not require KYC up to a certain point?

I get that this may not be the right topic to explore this further, so feel free to respond via PM if you have the time.  Thanks!

I also want to say that I think many in the community are disappointed that you can no longer continue your solar mining.  It was a great project to follow and your growth/dedication to the project was commendable.

I always reported my mining income. over or under 10k.

the new law is different.

if I mine 10k and take it from say viabtc on may 1st I have two weeks to file a special form. or a felony and s committed.
this is far stricter then telling the irs on my tax returned I earned 120k gross income from mining .

in both cases I report the gross income from viabtc. but new law means when I exceed 10k I must report on a special form within two weeks.

old law the 10k did not need to be reported until I did my taxes at years end.


if i were theymos I would not touch mixers with a ten foot pole for bitcointalk.

I get it if you are not USA based you are saying wtf?

but if you are USA based the new rules are very restrictive.

I have yet to figure a legal work around and simply won’t mine much this year.


fork and shattered?


and theymos is ignoring the dangers facing bitcointalk or is being proactive?

I get that many members on btc do not give a fuck about USA law.

But I don’t get what you are saying about admin closing its eyes.


yep I am too big and too small at the same time.


big enough to be hurt by new usa law but too small to self mine and simply report kyc on me.

We had 1.4 million infrastructure and gear.

800k solar and 600k gear.

the owner of the warehouse will mine by himself and stay under the 10k numbers by exclusively using nicehash.

he could run into an issue if btc moons. he earns about $3500 a week and coin is sent weekly.

he is not so sure if he will be bothered under the 10k rule by taking a weekly payout.

If my gear was there we would be at $7000  a week which none of us felt safe to under new laws

its easy if you are doing $10000 plus a day as you certainly will get better treatment from pools

but if you just squeak out the 10k weekly or monthly pools may say no.

my smaller foot print will allow me to be well under cut off numbers.

but you force 1.4 million invested to sell off and reduce with new laws.

And tell them what? To which pool they're not allowed to mine?

I still don't see what difference it will make if a few large hash power holders "bend their knew". There's still hash power that is not under their control, and as long as the mining farms don't attempt suicide by intentionally reorging, there cannot be censorship.

Off-topic, but how many times have we made this conversation? I get a deja-vu. Probably more than five.

Attacking the network is a financial suicide. That's what happens. Is it possible to happen? Of course. Is it probable? I'd say no. Do the pro-censorship pools have to retain this attack forever? Yes. The conclusions yours.

Don't give up!

I was out of arguments, almost accepted defeat and stompix came to the rescue.

Yep.

True decentralization is pretty impossible.

They’ll go after farms when everything else fails…

When miners are actually companies listed on the stock exchange it will be easier for a government to take over a mining farm than pools.
Foundry is almost completely private, no hobby miners allowed, just people you can see their farms from the space station, all those will bend the knew faster than when stumbling over a rock.

Plus now even smaller pools or farms are immune, look in that list:
Binance pool - Hello CZ, you want your passport back?
Mara pool - not even counting this one, they will do the censorship even if not asked for
Luxor? - based in Seatle
SBI Crypto - it's owned by former Softbank Japan, common...

And the halving will only make things worse.


What happens when they decide to ignore any block containing a blacklisted transaction?  

Pools is not their problem. It's miners who own the hash power. They can shut down the top 4 pools, and they'd have only achieved a temporary network interruption. And since they can't break into places and shut down mining farms, then they can't stop what's happening.

In the worst case scenario, where the world government starts shutting down every miner website, we can still migrate to decentralized mining, with P2Pool. It's not popular, because centralized pools are more convenient, but it works. Monero already uses it to decentralize its hash power: https://p2pool.io/#pool.

Un-stop-pa-ble.