Mixers to be banned - page 8. | Bitcointalksearch.org

tread93

hero member

Activity: 1098

Merit: 534

Quote from: shield132 on February 07, 2024, 04:19:55 PM

Quote from: mindrust on February 06, 2024, 07:34:51 AM

Binance just announced they are delisting privacy coins included but not limited to, XMR and Zcash.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xmr-zcash-and-other-private-coins-are-getting-delisted-from-binance-5484277

If you own any privacy coins on that exchange, the deadline is February 20.

We are slowly getting cornered.

The question is, will theymos ban privacy coins too if the regulatories take action against them? Now, that would be the end of the forum because that would mean banning legit crypto projects, it ain't the same as banning mixers.

How can theymos ban privacy coins even if the regulators take action against them? Bitcointalk doesn't accept XMR or Zcash deposits as well as doesn't offer you XMR or Zcash trading. If regulators ban privacy coins, we won't be able to advertise services that offer exchanges of privacy coins. Discussion about privacy coins will be allowed unless someone starts promoting their usage or offers coin exchange. Why do I say this? Because it will be as simple as it is, drugs are prohibited, banned and illegal but discussion about them is accepted on as famous social networks as Reddit is.

Wow, I mean props to Theymos for being proactive on this, when SINBAD was seized that was a really big deal and I think it mainly hit home and got him thinking about doing this, maybe that was the final nudge. But now with privacy coins being banned its clear that the workaround from the fiat money system is not being tolerated. Theymos was definitely onto this and wants no part in having to deal with any goverment entities if he can help it i'm sure.

shield132

hero member

Activity: 2198

Merit: 847

Quote from: mindrust on February 06, 2024, 07:34:51 AM

Binance just announced they are delisting privacy coins included but not limited to, XMR and Zcash.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xmr-zcash-and-other-private-coins-are-getting-delisted-from-binance-5484277

If you own any privacy coins on that exchange, the deadline is February 20.

We are slowly getting cornered.

The question is, will theymos ban privacy coins too if the regulatories take action against them? Now, that would be the end of the forum because that would mean banning legit crypto projects, it ain't the same as banning mixers.

How can theymos ban privacy coins even if the regulators take action against them? Bitcointalk doesn't accept XMR or Zcash deposits as well as doesn't offer you XMR or Zcash trading. If regulators ban privacy coins, we won't be able to advertise services that offer exchanges of privacy coins. Discussion about privacy coins will be allowed unless someone starts promoting their usage or offers coin exchange. Why do I say this? Because it will be as simple as it is, drugs are prohibited, banned and illegal but discussion about them is accepted on as famous social networks as Reddit is.

examplens

legendary

Activity: 3248

Merit: 3098

Quote from: Bitcoadvice on February 07, 2024, 09:46:28 AM

Quote from: LoyceV on February 07, 2024, 04:40:00 AM

Quote from: Bitcoadvice on February 06, 2024, 01:35:50 PM

This change has caused some issues, such as identifying and reporting phishing mixer websites that use a portion of the real mixer domain name in their phishing domain name.

What's the point in knowing the exact phishing domain name? Just watch out, even if it's not on a list of phishing domains, it can still be a new one. Users now have to rely on other sources than Bitcointalk to find the real sites.

As a rule of thumb: if you can post the mixer's URL, chances are it's a phishing site. But being word filtered still doesn't guarantee the site is real.

Knowing the exact phishing domain name can be very useful for people or victims to research a specific website that might be phishing. They can find more details and references about it, such as on this forum.

For example, they can find my thread and learn that a specific website domain is a scam and a phishing website. By conducting research, they can avoid falling victim to a specific phishing domain, which they might have wanted to use.

For a skilled scammer, creating a fake site is just a few hours of work, with $20 for a domain and hosting, the phishing site is online very quickly. I don't know how it is possible to collect information about all such sites, I guess we don't even know about half of them. What if there is a new page that is not yet on the blacklist?

As far as I know, there are currently around 15 "legitimate" mixers (maybe some more that I haven't heard of yet), while at the same time, I saw lists of phishing mixer sites with over 100 domains. Isn't it easier to remember those 15 pages or at least a couple of listing pages that only collect data from legal mixer services?
The most important thing should be that people are educated enough to recognize whether the site is original or fake.

Coyster

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1224

'Life's but a walking shadow'!

Quote from: Agbe on February 07, 2024, 11:05:31 AM

Binance is a Centralized Exchange Platform which is fully equipped with KYC so non KYC projects might not be a favorable to it operation because it would like to ask for KYC whenever customers and client register nto their services which will also against the policy of the non KYC projects therefore they cannot work together.

That is not what the problem is for these centralized exchanges, of course before trading in any centralized exchange, you have to pass KYC on the platform, the reason many of these centralized exchanges are delisting privacy coins is that they cannot trace/track the transactions, so they cannot get information about it and report to the government or chain analysis companies if they need information about such transactions.

Agbe

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 1246

Quote from: NotATether on February 07, 2024, 07:13:33 AM

Quote from: mindrust on February 06, 2024, 07:34:51 AM

Binance just announced they are delisting privacy coins included but not limited to, XMR and Zcash.

Just? AFAIK, Binance Australia has had already delisted them a year ago, and I wouldn't be surprised to know if any subsidiaries have delisted them earlier either.

So the bottom line is, this is just some exchange's policy, but since it's not a government's policy, I see no reason to ban discussion of privacy coins (to say nothing about posting links to them).

Binance is a Centralized Exchange Platform which is fully equipped with KYC so non KYC projects might not be a favorable to it operation because it would like to ask for KYC whenever customers and client register nto their services which will also against the policy of the non KYC projects therefore they cannot work together. And they are not from the government but the way government is pressurizing the people to do KYC and the ban of mixers by them base laundry and here, their hands are not free from the Binance and other delisting the non KYC projects in their platforms.

Bitcoadvice

jr. member

Activity: 58

Merit: 15

Quote from: Coyster on February 06, 2024, 05:19:56 PM

Quote from: Bitcoadvice on February 06, 2024, 01:35:50 PM

While I understand that mixers are being banned on the forum, I don't believe it was a good idea to change the names of all the former legitimate mixers to "[banned mixer]".

The thing is, you cannot post URL's of mixers in the forum, it will be automatically wordfiltered if you try to post it, but you can write the name of mixers, without posting a link that takes users to their websites. If you want to "report" or "identify" any mixer, just write the names of the mixer, without their URL's.

The names of phishing domains are often very similar to the original domain websites, but with a different top-level domain (TLD). This can make it difficult for people or victims who want to research a specific phishing domain to find resources like my thread on this forum, which could provide them with more information, details and knowledge.

However, the exact phishing domain is censored with "[banned mixer]", which I don't think is a good idea in this case.

Quote from: LoyceV on February 07, 2024, 04:40:00 AM

Quote from: Bitcoadvice on February 06, 2024, 01:35:50 PM

This change has caused some issues, such as identifying and reporting phishing mixer websites that use a portion of the real mixer domain name in their phishing domain name.

What's the point in knowing the exact phishing domain name? Just watch out, even if it's not on a list of phishing domains, it can still be a new one. Users now have to rely on other sources than Bitcointalk to find the real sites.

As a rule of thumb: if you can post the mixer's URL, chances are it's a phishing site. But being word filtered still doesn't guarantee the site is real.

Knowing the exact phishing domain name can be very useful for people or victims to research a specific website that might be phishing. They can find more details and references about it, such as on this forum.

For example, they can find my thread and learn that a specific website domain is a scam and a phishing website. By conducting research, they can avoid falling victim to a specific phishing domain, which they might have wanted to use.

NotATether

legendary

Activity: 1568

Merit: 6660

bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org

Quote from: mindrust on February 06, 2024, 07:34:51 AM

Binance just announced they are delisting privacy coins included but not limited to, XMR and Zcash.

Just? AFAIK, Binance Australia has had already delisted them a year ago, and I wouldn't be surprised to know if any subsidiaries have delisted them earlier either.

So the bottom line is, this is just some exchange's policy, but since it's not a government's policy, I see no reason to ban discussion of privacy coins (to say nothing about posting links to them).

ABCbits

legendary

Activity: 2870

Merit: 7490

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: LoyceV on February 06, 2024, 08:11:41 AM

Quote from: mindrust on February 06, 2024, 07:34:51 AM

The question is, will theymos ban privacy coins too if the regulatories take action against them? Now, that would be the end of the forum because that would mean banning legit crypto projects, it ain't the same as banning mixers.

Exchanges can't do their AML checks on privacy coins, Bitcointalk doesn't have to do AML checks.

I don't think it's the reason. Unlike Monero, most privacy coin doesn't make privacy feature mandatory. I recall Zcash shielded/private transaction only have ~14% dominance among all Zcash transactions.

Quote from: Medusah on February 06, 2024, 07:22:19 PM

Quote from: mindrust on February 06, 2024, 07:34:51 AM

The question is, will theymos ban privacy coins too if the regulatories take action against them?

If we ever reach the point where it is forbidden to talk about privacy coins, then it would really be time to bring out the pitchforks. I think in the US that would count as violation of the First Amendment. Forbidding direction to potentially darknet sites is reasonable, given that we can still talk about it (just not direct).

In addition, if regulations become so strict, then it does not make sense to restrict freedom of speech in this place. If you want to illegalize porn, you will not ask from a porn forum to stop talking about it.

But this forum considered as private platform (not owned by government), so i'm not sure first amendment apply here considering this past ruling https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/17/18682099/supreme-court-ruling-first-amendment-social-media-public-forum.

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: Bitcoadvice on February 06, 2024, 01:35:50 PM

This change has caused some issues, such as identifying and reporting phishing mixer websites that use a portion of the real mixer domain name in their phishing domain name.

What's the point in knowing the exact phishing domain name? Just watch out, even if it's not on a list of phishing domains, it can still be a new one. Users now have to rely on other sources than Bitcointalk to find the real sites.

As a rule of thumb: if you can post the mixer's URL, chances are it's a phishing site. But being word filtered still doesn't guarantee the site is real.

Medusah

sr. member

Activity: 267

Merit: 268

Quote from: mindrust on February 06, 2024, 07:34:51 AM

The question is, will theymos ban privacy coins too if the regulatories take action against them?

If we ever reach the point where it is forbidden to talk about privacy coins, then it would really be time to bring out the pitchforks. I think in the US that would count as violation of the First Amendment. Forbidding direction to potentially darknet sites is reasonable, given that we can still talk about it (just not direct).

In addition, if regulations become so strict, then it does not make sense to restrict freedom of speech in this place. If you want to illegalize porn, you will not ask from a porn forum to stop talking about it.

Coyster

legendary

Activity: 1946

Merit: 1224

'Life's but a walking shadow'!

Quote from: Bitcoadvice on February 06, 2024, 01:35:50 PM

While I understand that mixers are being banned on the forum, I don't believe it was a good idea to change the names of all the former legitimate mixers to "[banned mixer]".

The thing is, you cannot post URL's of mixers in the forum, it will be automatically wordfiltered if you try to post it, but you can write the name of mixers, without posting a link that takes users to their websites. If you want to "report" or "identify" any mixer, just write the names of the mixer, without their URL's.

Bitcoadvice

jr. member

Activity: 58

Merit: 15

Hello!
While I understand that mixers are being banned on the forum, I don't believe it was a good idea to change the names of all the former legitimate mixers to "[banned mixer]". This change has caused some issues, such as identifying and reporting phishing mixer websites that use a portion of the real mixer domain name in their phishing domain name. An example of this can be found in my report here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/scam-fake-cryptocurrency-mixer-phishing-network-5478625.

My suggestion would be to keep the names clearly visible and not censored. As for the former mixer threads in the forum, they could simply be closed. Overall, I think this would be a more useful solution for the forum and better for its users.

dkbit98

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 7064

Cashback 15%

Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on December 01, 2023, 09:02:02 AM

Isn't Bitcointalk decentralized forum where everyone has freedom to talk on any subject even against any government?

No it's not and it has never been decentralized forum, but bitcoin is decentralized and that is enough.

Quote from: Gladitorcomeback on December 01, 2023, 09:02:02 AM

If tomorrow Gov declare Bitcoin btc as a money laundering source then we will see Bitcoin word in blacklist and also we will change domain??

That won't happen any time soon, and forum is not directly connected with bitcoin in any way, other than for historic reference.
Governments can make all kinds of things illegal (just look at history), so maybe it's time for people to change the way governments work.

Quote from: mindrust on February 06, 2024, 07:34:51 AM

Binance just announced they are delisting privacy coins included but not limited to, XMR

Great news!
I know lot of people have been waiting for this to happen for some time.

Quote from: mindrust on February 06, 2024, 07:34:51 AM

The question is, will theymos ban privacy coins too if the regulatories take action against them? Now, that would be the end of the forum because that would mean banning legit crypto projects, it ain't the same as banning mixers.

Monero is not banned, it's just exchanges delisting it and proving that transactions can't be cracked and tracked.

Quote from: LoyceV on February 06, 2024, 08:11:41 AM

Exchanges can't do their AML checks on privacy coins, Bitcointalk doesn't have to do AML checks.

I hear that If you have $15 you can easily pass ''kyc'' in most places Cheesy

LoyceV

legendary

Activity: 3290

Merit: 16489

Thick-Skinned Gang Leader and Golden Feather 2021

Quote from: mindrust on February 06, 2024, 07:34:51 AM

The question is, will theymos ban privacy coins too if the regulatories take action against them? Now, that would be the end of the forum because that would mean banning legit crypto projects, it ain't the same as banning mixers.

Exchanges can't do their AML checks on privacy coins, Bitcointalk doesn't have to do AML checks.

mindrust

legendary

Activity: 3234

Merit: 2420

Binance just announced they are delisting privacy coins included but not limited to, XMR and Zcash.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xmr-zcash-and-other-private-coins-are-getting-delisted-from-binance-5484277

If you own any privacy coins on that exchange, the deadline is February 20.

We are slowly getting cornered.

The question is, will theymos ban privacy coins too if the regulatories take action against them? Now, that would be the end of the forum because that would mean banning legit crypto projects, it ain't the same as banning mixers.

Synchronice

hero member

Activity: 854

Merit: 772

Watch Bitcoin Documentary - https://t.ly/v0Nim

Quote from: examplens on January 19, 2024, 09:07:06 AM

Namely, if a new user, ignorant of the new rules of the forum, comes to the current ANN mixer (most mixers still have a link to the ANN on Bitcointalk as a support page), the first thing he will see is that the mixer is renamed as [banned] and that somehow first leads to the thought that he is in there is an issue.
With all the difficulties that the new rule has brought, does it make sense to appeal that this replacement of the name of the mixer is done in a slightly more appropriate way?

Are forum rules available on the first page of registration? As I remember, no, they aren't and I think we have to put them because a new person might register on this forum just to post about a mixer and when he wont' be able to include banned word, he might try to find a way to spell it differently to show it in post and they might also try to post the name or link of the mixer. They will get banned for no reason. I think it's admin's duty to make some rules easily accessible for members during the registration. If someone makes a mistake after that, then it's their problem because we provided rules on registration page.

@theymos, Symmetrick aka Ratimov wears avatar of a mixer. As far as I know, he is banned but is it still okay? It's not an old event though that happened years ago, no, it was just recently.

WhyFhy

hero member

Activity: 1430

Merit: 513

Quote from: joker_josue on January 20, 2024, 05:24:29 AM

Quote from: examplens on January 19, 2024, 09:07:06 AM

Question for theymos, would it perhaps be more correct to use another word for wordfiltering instead of "banned"?

I understand the issue and it even makes some sense, the possible use of another word.

In turn, the question arises: what word to use?
I spent a few minutes thinking about a possibility, and I didn't come up with any better idea than "banned". So what word would you suggest?

Nixed

Kruw

member

Activity: 378

Merit: 93

Enable v2transport=1 and mempoolfullrbf=1

Quote from: OgNasty on January 11, 2024, 12:00:39 PM

I can understand the stance on Wasabi wallet. What they are doing is different than a mixer, I agree. I don’t think theymos’ statements cover jambler though. It is very clearly a mixer no matter how they try to spin it and the only possible outcome for it in my opinion is being shut down and everyone losing their funds once a hack is laundered through one of their partners. After warning everyone about ChipMixer in advance and being 100% correct and then being the first person to say that the forum would have to remove mixers from advertising here and being 100% correct, it’s only right I sound the horn about jambler. Go against me if you want, I’m rarely on the wrong side of history.

I'll jump in to also take credit for warning users about these custodians. It's crazy to look back at posts that aren't even a year old to see just how many people who attacked me for warning people about "mixing sites" stealing coins and turning over your data to the government just for me to be vindicated over and over and over again.

JollyGood

legendary

Activity: 2534

Merit: 1713

Top Crypto Casino

The mixer service would probably take steps of removing any links to the forum and that would be the best thing for all parties. If they will no longer be allowed to post their services here it does not mean their previous historical relationship with the forum should be erased. Personally, if they choose to keep links on their website pointing to the archive in this forum stating the forum no longer allows mixers to be promoted, I see no problem.

Quote from: Cricktor on January 20, 2024, 04:29:34 AM

If a service backlinks to Bitcointalk forum where it shows up as [banned], isn't it the responsibility of the service to explain this to it's customers? Yes, true, it's a policy change of Bitcointalk and likely not in favour of those services, but a website has still it's own responsibility for linking to external sites.

joker_josue

legendary

Activity: 1638

Merit: 4508

**In BTC since 2013**

Quote from: examplens on January 19, 2024, 09:07:06 AM

Question for theymos, would it perhaps be more correct to use another word for wordfiltering instead of "banned"?

I understand the issue and it even makes some sense, the possible use of another word.

In turn, the question arises: what word to use?
I spent a few minutes thinking about a possibility, and I didn't come up with any better idea than "banned". So what word would you suggest?

Topic: Mixers to be banned - page 8. (Read 23006 times)