Topic: Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 510. (Read 144003 times)

Some news:

Redbull maybe will join Ferrari/Renault actions against Racing Point/Mercedes

The boost mode for the engine will probably be removed for everyone in qualify from Belgium Gp, was planned for 2021

Renault is still official protesting is to have the results of last races not definitive. If they stop all results will be definitive and can't be changed anymore. So they are hoping that also the results of the racing are being changed by given penalties. But I don't see that happen

 I don't get all the hate towards Lewis Hamilton, dude is a rock solid driver and I know that he is on a team that is miles better than any other team right now but that doesn't change the fact that dude deserves to be on that team, if you are a great team you will want the greatest racer, who would want to get the last racer of the league and put it on the best team? Lewis is doing awesome because dude is actually awesome, not just because Mercedes is awesome. Sure if he switched teams and raced for another team there is a big chance he may not be the leader, but give ALL the racers mercedes cars and I bet he still ends up at the top as well, he is definitely the best one we have right now, I don't know his general place but could we just agree that he is great and focus a bit more on the betting side of the things?

I agree with you on all points honestly. I never had a chance to see Senna live, but spent a lot of time studying him later and he was all that people say about him.For me it is Schumi, Senna, Lauda , Prost when it comes to quality. Lewis is also great, I don't like him, but I respect his skills. He could be one of the greats, but I haven't seen enough of him in really difficult setting and under a heavy pressure.

That the tires work well is a fine line, and the riders have to adapt their style and the engineers also have to fine-tune the bike.


Yes it's important for the next years budget, but so what the owner are a Billionaire 😎

I saw on F1 official page that the boss of Racing Point said he had enough of the accusations and will do anything in his power to prove his innocence.Since Ferrari and Renault made an official statement it means that Racing Point should have done something illegal.Whatever happens 15 point means nothing for the Championship but they are valuable for the next year budget of the team.

Ferrari and Renault made an official statement against Racing Point (again).

On the other hands, Racing Point has time till tomorrow to make an appeal against FIA and asking back for the 15 points removed for the illegal activity.

I agree that Verstappen is hugely talented, especially using the example I gave of performance versus team mates. He utterly outclassed Ricciardo, for example, who is a good driver in his own right, to the extent that Ricciardo felt he had to leave for a different team! Hamilton and Verstappen seem to be by some distance the best two racers in the current field. We also have Alonso coming back soon - another great driver - I hope his car will be competitive.

The reason I think Hamilton is an all-time great and that Verstappen isn't, has nothing to do with talent, but merely that Hamilton is some years further along in his career. He has already proven his quality, whereas Verstappen is only starting to do so. It is likely that in 10 years' time, we will be looking at multiple world champion Max as one of the all-time greats, too.

I do still suspect that Hamilton would beat Verstappen if they were in the same car, but it would certainly be fairly close, and affected by the fact that Max has less experience to draw on at present. Lewis has, through experience, gained that champions mentality of knowing exactly when to take risks, and when to for example cut his losses and settle for 3rd place, he has the long-term championship view rather than just the current race. I'm not sure Max has that yet. I'm not sure Max quite knows when to hold back. But give it a few years.

You are right, I read some articles  Senior racer Valentino Rossi also admit that KTM is very fast on the straight. KTM will be a concern for the next two tracks. In addition, I think this is one of the effects of Dani Pedrosa who is a Honda graduate, he moved to KTM as a development racer and he managed to prove in Brno that his team was successful. The problem of selecting tires is indeed difficult, at Brno Alex Marques also failed to show his best because he chose the wrong tire. The tire factor is key, I think and the rider's skill is what it supports.

Guys, you started interesting discussion here. Personally, I'm not big fan of comparing drivers, especially from different periods. For me it's similar when people comparing Ronaldo and Messi with Pele and Maradona. But I also want to give my input here.
Hamilton is great driver, there is no doubt about it, but I think he isn't GOAT. He spent most of his career in dominant team. I doubt that Leclerc or Verstappen would perform significantly worse in Mercedes. Offcourse, his rookie season and title in 2008 was something amazing. But when he didn't had dominant car, he even got outscored by teammate Button. Though, I don't think that Lewis need to move to other team to prove something, unless he wants new challenges himself.
And I don't understand hype when Lewis beat Schumacher's records, like most wins. Back then seasons were not so long, not like now when we have over 20 races.
I don't want to understimate Hamilton achievements, but personally I can't put him in same raw with Senna and Schumacher. I personally hated Schumi dominance in Ferrari, but I must admit how good he was. And I loved when Alonso finnished their dominance . As said above, Schumi came to shit teams and made them better. This can said about Mercedes.
Unfortunately, I haven't saw Senna racing, only saw some documentary and archive races. Annd damn how good he was. And to drive these crazy fast, powerful and unsafe F1 cars, you need to have big balls. I can't imagine current racers driving it. And it's the reason why it's difficult to compare drivers from different era.
P.S. Sorry for long post .

That is exactly what I have said so far for a racer like Lando Norris for example, I accept that I am biased because I watch his streams as well, but that doesn't mean that I am wrong automatically. Lets chance Lando and Hamilton for teams, Lando will race with mercedes whereas Hamilton will race for mclaren and you will see that Hamilton will finish around where Lando has finished this year whereas Lando will finish at top 3 without a doubt and probably be first as well (maybe behind bottas).

So, why should we think of Hamilton like he is one of the GOAT racers? If one day he leaves mercedes and goes to a team that sucks and becomes champion with that team, I promise you that I will see him at schumi levels but until that moment he is just a racer who drivers the fastest car.

That's all right but for me is Hamilton overrated. I hope he search after Mercedes a new challenge like Ferrari than we will see his real performance. Vettel think this same but he broke at a team like Ferrari als Alonso...

Exactly.We can debate with each other as long as we can.For some Schumi is the best for me is the most boring driver of all time.I like driving style of Senna and Hamilton.For me Senna is number one and the first lap of Gp Europe 1993 shows that the skills of the driver.Now Hamilton drives aggresively compared to the other drivers followed by Verstappen.

 I feel like this is a personal and individual thing that people can decide for themselves, if they debate it they can debate it but everyone has the right to think whoever is the best for them is the best for them. This doesn't need to turn into a statistics thing or a team thing or a car thing, racers are racers and if you like one you like one and if you do not like the other you do not like the other.

 You like schumi? That is great, support him and always say he is the greatest ever, you like senna? Great, defend his GOAT status as long as you are alive. You want hamilton to be the considered best racer in history? Go ahead and do that. At the end of the day in other sports we support teams, and even if our teams are the greatest ever or not we do support them, I do not see a difference between supporting a football team and supporting a racer, the only difference is the racer retires. There are also teams on f1 as well but they are not as much hardcore fanbase as racers, for some reason racers have more fans than teams.

I also Jean the same as you, Senna, Schumacher, Prost and Lauda are different format of driver and team developer than Hamilton look at Lauda and Schumacher the are the only driver who managed to shape fFerrari over the years and to be successful, at the beginning Ferrari was destructive for both.

The actually Mercedes formed Schumacher, Wolff and Lauda. Hamilton is a good driver but he don't have from beginning a not winning team!

Just wondering what would happen if Verstappen was also driving at Mercedes. Think it will be 50/50. Don't think that Hamilton is that much better

It is difficult to separate effect of driver from effect of car, but there are suggestions...
If we look at the Mercedes record of Schumacher vs Rosberg (2010-2012: https://imgur.com/a/SSNQN ) and then Hamilton vs Rosberg (2013-2016: https://imgur.com/a/K9Ri4 ), then Hamilton looks the better of the two.

If Hamilton consistently beats his team mates, consistently sets poles, wins races and wins championships, and from time to time produces astonishingly good performances (often in the wet) where he absolutely obliterates his team mate, then we just can't say he isn't the best ever, at most we can say there is insufficient evidence... but even then, I would argue the evidence suggests he's right up there as one of the all-time greats.

Exactly, you are biased and that is ok, what is not ok is to state things you state like they are a fact when they are not. He did not have to do massive overtaking often because he was the one in front and that was not only because of the car. Anyone who says that is clearly biased.

I have no problem people not liking some drivers, but when there is no objectivity that is another thing.

Schumi came to shit teams and made them better, lifted the team in all aspects step by step and had massive drives just like Senna did, unlike Hamilton for example whom came to top team from the start and moved to another top team after Schumi developed the car for him...Hamilton is one of the greats, no doubt, but for me he can't be put into the same slot as Senna, Schumi and Prost, I won't go further into the past.

All KTM at Brno very strong i also think the same at Austria the next two weekends. These 2 tracks are the standard test tracks of KTM, so I think KTM could have an advantage in tire management.

@Cnut237, yes, I agree that it's not likely that we will see similar scenario repeating many times this season. Mercedes is racing in their own league and to battle against them multiple factors is needed like yesterday. Mercedes had quite big issues with tyres.
@tokeweed, I think it's very unlikely. Two top drivers with big ambitions isn't such good idea. Remember stories about Hamilton and Rosberg, Alonso and Hamilton or Webber and Vettel. There would be just too much drama and big headache for team bosses. Bottas is perfect wingman for Mercedes, he don't mind to be second driver who is delivering podiums for Mercedes in almost every race. What else they would need?