Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM..... - page 69.

moneystery

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on December 02, 2023, 07:19:58 PM

...

Yea also what Ducati he used?

I mean the next year they will use the 2023 Ducati, so idk if the test has been done with the 2022 version or the next one.

afaik from comments on youtube and from local sports news, the type of motorbike used by marc in yesterday's test was the ducati desmosedici gp24 which will be used by bagnaia next season. this type of motorbike is claimed to be faster, lighter and more powerful, which bagnaia really likes.

compared to the gp22 that will be used by marc in the next season, it seems that marc will have a little difficulty seeing the excellent specifications of the gp24 that will be used by his opponent. but marc himself is confident in the motorbike he uses, considering that the gp22 was once used by bagnaia to win the world championship and with further tuning by the gresini team and marc's skills, it is not impossible that marc will become more competitive in the next season. .

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Quote from: Koal-84 on November 30, 2023, 11:00:50 AM

Marc seemed to feel reasonably comfortable on the Ducati and was only 0.17 tenths behind the fastest Vilares on his Aprilia, but I wouldn't take the times too seriously now, as the Ducati factory team didn't go on a time hunt at all.

Yea also what Ducati he used?

I mean the next year they will use the 2023 Ducati, so idk if the test has been done with the 2022 version or the next one.

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Quote from: FanEagle on December 01, 2023, 04:19:04 AM

After F1 is done now, I think it's time to think about the teams and the drivers for those teams. I honestly believe that are 4 or 5 teams that are guaranteed to keep the drivers, rest may have some changes. Aston Martin may stay as long as Alonso agrees to stay, Mclaren has a great young duo, they are great, and Mercedes of course looks amazing, and ferrrari seems happy, these are it, maybe alpine too. Rest are a little unknown, specially the biggest one is Red Bull, will Perez be fired or not?

I think he should be sent away already, he doesn't really deserve that second place, he still got to end the season second place but he had so much trouble, Max deserves a friend who would do a lot better than Perez has done so far. I believe that Williams will look for someone else than Sergeant as well, it's sad that dudes start was a terrible Williams season, but if Albon did all that well, then he was expected to be a little bit better too, he was terrible.

Yes, Perez managed to finish this season by being runner up with Max, but he finished this season with drama, he has finished in bad places several times using the best F1 car. His identity crisis and public expectations that his performance was not as good as Max's became a burden for Checo and caused him to find himself in difficult positions several times.
It is true that Horner still wants Checo to race with the RBR Team, but don't ignore that Ricciardo is Marko's golden boy, so there is an opportunity for Checo to be replaced by Marko if he cannot meet his expectations.

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After F1 is done now, I think it's time to think about the teams and the drivers for those teams. I honestly believe that are 4 or 5 teams that are guaranteed to keep the drivers, rest may have some changes. Aston Martin may stay as long as Alonso agrees to stay, Mclaren has a great young duo, they are great, and Mercedes of course looks amazing, and ferrrari seems happy, these are it, maybe alpine too. Rest are a little unknown, specially the biggest one is Red Bull, will Perez be fired or not?

I think he should be sent away already, he doesn't really deserve that second place, he still got to end the season second place but he had so much trouble, Max deserves a friend who would do a lot better than Perez has done so far. I believe that Williams will look for someone else than Sergeant as well, it's sad that dudes start was a terrible Williams season, but if Albon did all that well, then he was expected to be a little bit better too, he was terrible.

Distraction

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The source: https://twitter.com/F1/status/1676584214559444993

The race calendar for 2024 season is already out! It looks like we will have more races next time. We had 22 races this season but this time there are 2 more. Of course it is still early to talk like all of these races will be held without problems. But hopefully we can watch as many races as possible next season.

It looks like a quite tight schedule at the end especially. The last 6 races are very close to each other and it would be quite tiring for teams and drivers. But for us the spectators it would be a feast! Grin

It will probably be another season dominated by Verstappen however I would like to watch some more progress by other top teams.

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Quote from: Koal-84 on November 29, 2023, 08:01:39 AM

and yes it's a long time to the MotoGP start next year.

MotoGP line up for 2024 I am interested in two teams with different tandems. Firstly the Mooney VR46 Racing team and secondly the Gresini Racing team.
Fabio Di Giannantonio's move to the Mooney VR46 Racing team was a result of losing his place due to Mark Marquez who moved from Repsol Honda. I think Giannantonio will team up with Marco Bezzecchi in the 2024 season because I really like their racing style.

Then for the 2024 season race, the brother and sister duo of Alex Marquez and Marc Marquez in Gresini will be a spectacle of how lucky Marc Marquez is there.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on November 29, 2023, 06:04:45 PM

Marquez today tested the Ducati for the fist time and the comments on the news are "impressive".

I can't find the timers but he was very fast, very fast.

Maybe he will be a contender the next year after all.

Marc seemed to feel reasonably comfortable on the Ducati and was only 0.17 tenths behind the fastest Vilares on his Aprilia, but I wouldn't take the times too seriously now, as the Ducati factory team didn't go on a time hunt at all.

Quote

1. Maverick Vinales (Aprilia) - 1:29.253 Minuten (86 Runden)
2. Brad Binder (KTM) +0,028 Sekunden (51)
3. Marco Bezzecchi (VR46-Ducati) +0,093 (62)
4. Marc Marquez (Gresini-Ducati) +0,171 (49)
5. Raul Fernandez (Aprilia) +0,263 (64)
6. Alex Marquez (Gresini-Ducati) +0,385 (56)
7. Fabio Di Giannantonio (VR46-Ducati) +0,409 (60)
8. Enea Bastianini (Ducati) +0,543 (56)
9. Jack Miller (KTM) +0,648 (62)
10. Luca Marini (Honda) +0,703 (72)
11. Francesco Bagnaia (Ducati) +0,717 (51)
12. Fabio Quartararo (Yamaha) +0,769 (63)
13. Joan Mir (Honda) +0,798 (69)
14. Augusto Fernandez (GasGas) +0,824 (72)
15. Jorge Martin (Pramac-Ducati) +0,899 (51)
16. Franco Morbidelli (Pramac-Ducati) +0,953 (69)
17. Johann Zarco (LCR-Honda) +1,030 (61)
18. Pedro Acosta (GasGas) +1,223 (70)
19. Alex Rins (Yamaha) +1,311 (54)
20. Cal Crutchlow (Yamaha) +1,512 (74)
21. Takaaki Nakagami (LCR-Honda) +1,723 (63)
22. Aleix Espargaro (Aprilia) +3,059 (17)
23. Lorenzo Savadori (Aprilia) +3,431 (27)

Source

Davian144

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Quote from: swogerino on November 29, 2023, 06:19:59 AM

Bagnaia did exceptionally well to achieve that in the last race,even in Italy they are showing him as a World Champion already in the publicity they make for TIM-Telecom Italia.Martin I think had made his choice the moment he signed a contract with Honda and most likely his head is already there,if Honda builds a great bike he would have the honor to ride it and become World Champion with a Honda bike,something he did not achieve with the Ducatti team he is racing so far.

One thing is sure without racing until March it will be a very boring period.

Martin will still race with Pramac Racing next season and the seat at factory Honda next season has been taken by Marini who moved from Mooney VR46, so Martin will still race for the same team next season with the Ducati GP24 motorbike, which is the same motorbike as motorbike on the factory Ducati team. It looks like the December to March period won't be so boring because we can watch pre-season tests and motorbike development from all manufacturers.

Quote from: Koal-84 on November 29, 2023, 08:01:39 AM

When have Martin signed a contract with Honda, Marini switch to Honda? Next year's driver pairings will be as follows.

and yes it's a long time to the MotoGP start next year.

Maybe what @swogerino meant was Marini, not Martin because as can be seen in the list you shared, it is also very clear that it was Marini who was on the Honda after rumors went viral before the last round of the title season. I am waiting for better developments at the two Japanese manufacturers for next season because both of them have also been given concessions by Dorna for next season. So that Honda and Yamaha can have more freedom in developing their engines.

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Marquez today tested the Ducati for the fist time and the comments on the news are "impressive".

I can't find the timers but he was very fast, very fast.

Maybe he will be a contender the next year after all.

Koal-84

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Quote from: Davian144 on November 29, 2023, 06:02:06 AM

As I said before, Bagnaia doesn't need another podium to celebrate being world champion this season, because Bagnaia just needs to finish fourth and can win the world title this season even if Martin wins that race. But it was a shame for Martin because the conditions were not like that so Bagnaia really performed extraordinary in the last round by starting the race in pole position and finishing in first position. So Bagnaia celebrated his world championship this time with great joy and was speechless.

Bagnai did exactly what was expected of him in the race (which is fair to a world champion), but the victory was certainly a bit of a surprise for him. Also he have noticed Martin's crash, so you can ride pressure-free afterwards as he was already world champion.

Quote from: swogerino on November 29, 2023, 06:19:59 AM

Bagnaia did exceptionally well to achieve that in the last race,even in Italy they are showing him as a World Champion already in the publicity they make for TIM-Telecom Italia.Martin I think had made his choice the moment he signed a contract with Honda and most likely his head is already there,if Honda builds a great bike he would have the honor to ride it and become World Champion with a Honda bike,something he did not achieve with the Ducatti team he is racing so far.

One thing is sure without racing until March it will be a very boring period.

When have Martin signed a contract with Honda, Marini switch to Honda? Next year's driver pairings will be as follows.

and yes it's a long time to the MotoGP start next year.

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Quote from: Davian144 on November 29, 2023, 06:02:06 AM

Quote from: Koal-84 on November 28, 2023, 08:55:41 AM

The big difference is that Martin had to win at all costs, so he was over-motivated and tried to break the mould. In addition, Bagnaia is already world champion and was in the lead in the world championship.

I think if Martin had overtaken Bagnaia and the KTM riders had no problems with the front tyre (OK Miller often crash), the result would have been the same:

Martin
Binder
Bagnaia

would have been possible, which would also have meant the world championship title for Bagnaia.

As I said before, Bagnaia doesn't need another podium to celebrate being world champion this season, because Bagnaia just needs to finish fourth and can win the world title this season even if Martin wins that race. But it was a shame for Martin because the conditions were not like that so Bagnaia really performed extraordinary in the last round by starting the race in pole position and finishing in first position. So Bagnaia celebrated his world championship this time with great joy and was speechless.

Bagnaia did exceptionally well to achieve that in the last race,even in Italy they are showing him as a World Champion already in the publicity they make for TIM-Telecom Italia.Martin I think had made his choice the moment he signed a contract with Honda and most likely his head is already there,if Honda builds a great bike he would have the honor to ride it and become World Champion with a Honda bike,something he did not achieve with the Ducatti team he is racing so far.

One thing is sure without racing until March it will be a very boring period.

Davian144

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Quote from: Koal-84 on November 28, 2023, 08:55:41 AM

The big difference is that Martin had to win at all costs, so he was over-motivated and tried to break the mould. In addition, Bagnaia is already world champion and was in the lead in the world championship.

I think if Martin had overtaken Bagnaia and the KTM riders had no problems with the front tyre (OK Miller often crash), the result would have been the same:

Martin
Binder
Bagnaia

would have been possible, which would also have meant the world championship title for Bagnaia.

As I said before, Bagnaia doesn't need another podium to celebrate being world champion this season, because Bagnaia just needs to finish fourth and can win the world title this season even if Martin wins that race. But it was a shame for Martin because the conditions were not like that so Bagnaia really performed extraordinary in the last round by starting the race in pole position and finishing in first position. So Bagnaia celebrated his world championship this time with great joy and was speechless.

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One of the most dominant cars that was ever built is now retired. I mean a total of 22 races, and 21 of those races were won by Red Bull, 19 of them were won by Max himself, with 2 coming from Perez at Azerbeijan and Jeddah. That is the most dominant car I can think of, and that is saying something considering Mercedes had a car that won like 7 years in a row or something if I am not mistaken. It is by far the biggest points per race for a driver as well, it's unreal how much Max and Red Bull achieved this season.

The question has to be asked, will Max and Red Bull will be this dominant again next year? Obviously they will not have enough time to work on the car like other teams who did worse, but at the same time they didn't last year too and still won this much.

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About the goals of F1 teams I would also agree with you. There is no such thing that you can make profit in this sport. There is a cost cap that you have to obey. Throughout the season teams make developments a lot not only for the current season but also they are doing research for next season. This means spending a lot of money for only the development.

When drivers crash their cars this means extra expenditure for teams. For example Ferrari had to spend a lot more money than nearly all other teams because of this.

Sainz is the second driver in the list of drivers who cost their teams a lot of money this season. Grin

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Quote from: Davian144 on November 28, 2023, 07:11:35 AM

Martin should be able to learn something like that from Marquez, who after his injury was no longer world champion, so every rider must consider patience and calm and not be too hasty in making decisions. Bagnaia himself was also calmed down by Valentino Rossi before the race started so that he really listened to Rossi this time and did not make any mistakes that could cause disaster for him. And Bagnaia wasn't even too determined to catch Miller and Binder when the two KTM riders overtook him.

The big difference is that Martin had to win at all costs, so he was over-motivated and tried to break the mould. In addition, Bagnaia is already world champion and was in the lead in the world championship.

I think if Martin had overtaken Bagnaia and the KTM riders had no problems with the front tyre (OK Miller often crash), the result would have been the same:

Martin
Binder
Bagnaia

would have been possible, which would also have meant the world championship title for Bagnaia.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on November 28, 2023, 06:28:01 AM

Quote from: FanEagle on November 28, 2023, 05:39:56 AM

Ferrari has a "ferrari rule" that makes the F1 give them insane amount of money, it was 60 million dollars a year last time I checked, to keep them in the game. The idea was that unless f1 gives them that kind of extra money, they would not be able to sustain it, and leave. Which is fine, there are other teams that have left before and Ferrari could leave too, right?

Teams are not in F1 to make money from the F1.
The balance of the F1 teams at the end of the season is around 0 earning.

Teams are in F1 for marketing their main activity, for Ferrari is selling luxury cars, and for Redbull to sell beverages.

Yup, that's true for the companies behind the teams. But for the teams themselves that poured blood, sweat and tears in trying to win races, winning the prize money for the team could also be a boost for them. Could be a morale boost too. Who doesn't like winning some money? Lol.

But yeah... I'm not really sure how employee bonuses go in these teams but more money, more money in their pockets, I guess.

And just 95 days to go before the first race of the next season guys. We'll be posting Formula Dank meme and laughing before you know it. Wink

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Quote from: moneystery on November 27, 2023, 09:09:35 PM

that's right, martin was too aggressive and impatient which caused him to crash with marquez. if he could at least slow down a bit and not be too aggressive, well at least he could finish this race, but unfortunately he was gambling with something he couldn't win from the start.

That is the importance of calm and maturity in responding to anything in any championship, because any championship title will never be obtained instantly, so every rider needs to be calm and mature in facing every problem that befalls him. In today's pre-season test session I also saw Martin crash, so he has to really mature next season, especially in controlling his emotions and also in dealing with every condition that comes his way.

Quote

this will be an important lesson for martin that his impatience and aggressiveness could be a disaster for him. he can learn from pecco that calm and patience are the keys to becoming world champion.

Martin should be able to learn something like that from Marquez, who after his injury was no longer world champion, so every rider must consider patience and calm and not be too hasty in making decisions. Bagnaia himself was also calmed down by Valentino Rossi before the race started so that he really listened to Rossi this time and did not make any mistakes that could cause disaster for him. And Bagnaia wasn't even too determined to catch Miller and Binder when the two KTM riders overtook him.

Quote

but i applaud that his team still supported him and gave him encouragement after the crash. they understand the pressure that martin is facing and giving him encouragement can make him move on from this season and can improve his performance in the next season.

Almost all teams are like that, because the team also doesn't want its flagship rider to be sad for too long and now I'm watching the MotoGP test in Valencia. Today, several riders who have moved teams have experienced their new motorbikes, including this year's rookie, Pedro Acosta, who is on the Gasgas Aspar team.

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Quote from: FanEagle on November 28, 2023, 05:39:56 AM

Ferrari has a "ferrari rule" that makes the F1 give them insane amount of money, it was 60 million dollars a year last time I checked, to keep them in the game. The idea was that unless f1 gives them that kind of extra money, they would not be able to sustain it, and leave. Which is fine, there are other teams that have left before and Ferrari could leave too, right?

Teams are not in F1 to make money from the F1.
The balance of the F1 teams at the end of the season is around 0 earning.

Teams are in F1 for marketing their main activity, for Ferrari is selling luxury cars, and for Redbull to sell beverages.

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Quote from: coinlocket$ on November 26, 2023, 10:01:18 PM

Ferrari ended in 3rd spot in the leaderboard.

Not sure it is a bad thing, they will get less money as prize but more hours in the lab for testing

Ferrari has a "ferrari rule" that makes the F1 give them insane amount of money, it was 60 million dollars a year last time I checked, to keep them in the game. The idea was that unless f1 gives them that kind of extra money, they would not be able to sustain it, and leave. Which is fine, there are other teams that have left before and Ferrari could leave too, right?

Well, f1 decided that ferrari has a huge name and it makes the whole league earn more, so it works to keep ferrari in the league by paying them more, because it allows other teams to earn more as well, may sound unfair, but if other teams leave, the league wouldn't lose that many fans, but if ferrari leaves, the whole league would crumble and lost more money than they are paying to ferrari. This is why it's fine for them to be third, it allows them to get a lot more tunnel time, be better, and still make a lot more than the second place as money too because they are getting that added money.

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Quote from: Davian144 on November 26, 2023, 04:09:44 PM

...
Jorge Martin was really emotional so he failed to control himself so he appeared very persistent today and made a mistake because he touched the back of Bagnaia's motorbike on the third lap at the first corner, causing him (Martin) to drop to eighth position. Apart from that, Martin, who was impatient, also made the mistake of ramming Marquez's motorbike from behind, causing both of them to leave the race track. And today Pecco Bagnaia has done something quite extraordinary and also quite spectacular by starting the race in first position, and finishing in first position and celebrating his second world champion in the premier class and also his third overall. Now curse number 1 has been refuted and congratulations to Pecco Bagnaia who has successfully won the main MotoGP class back to back.

that's right, martin was too aggressive and impatient which caused him to crash with marquez. if he could at least slow down a bit and not be too aggressive, well at least he could finish this race, but unfortunately he was gambling with something he couldn't win from the start.

this will be an important lesson for martin that his impatience and aggressiveness could be a disaster for him. he can learn from pecco that calm and patience are the keys to becoming world champion.

but i applaud that his team still supported him and gave him encouragement after the crash. they understand the pressure that martin is facing and giving him encouragement can make him move on from this season and can improve his performance in the next season.

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