📈 NastyFans: The Bitcoin Enthusiast Fan Club (est. 2012) - page 173.

nonnakip

hero member

Activity: 633

Merit: 591

Quote from: ErebusBat on January 19, 2013, 08:28:10 PM

Quote from: nonnakip on January 19, 2013, 05:51:12 PM

4. If a transaction is submitted within 7 blocks but does not become part of the main chain within 1000 blocks the purchase order is canceled. If the transaction becomes part of the main chain after the purchase order cancellation then nastyfans will refund the amount (minus 0.0005 BTC tx fee) to the buyer if the buyer accepts donations. Otherwise it becomes a nastyfans donation. (This is new policy.)

Why the need for the donation distinction? Why not just send back to the sending address? I think taking funds like that could make nasty fans look very bad in the future.

You can not assume that people have access to receive Bitcoin from the sender address. Most people use online services and the sender address belongs to the service not the user.

I would love to send it back. But Bitcoin does not work like that. If there is no donation address then there is no guarantee that the Bitcoin is sent to sender.

kuzetsa

sr. member

Activity: 369

Merit: 250

Quote from: ErebusBat on January 19, 2013, 08:28:10 PM

Quote from: nonnakip on January 19, 2013, 05:51:12 PM

((...snip...))
If a transaction is submitted within 7 blocks but does not become part of the main chain within 1000 blocks the purchase order is canceled. If the transaction becomes part of the main chain after the purchase order cancellation then nastyfans will refund the amount (minus 0.0005 BTC tx fee) to the buyer if the buyer accepts donations. Otherwise it becomes a nastyfans donation. (This is new policy.)

If there are no good objections I will start a poll for these policy additions.

Why the need for the donation distinction? Why not just send back to the sending address? I think taking funds like that could make nasty fans look very bad in the future.

@nonnakip: WHAT!? The NastyFans policy says nothing along the lines:

...If an auction transaction takes too long for whatever arbitrary reason(s), we will just claim your bitcoin as a "donation".

@ErebusBat: Yes. I agree.

... Though your "in the future" qualifier is not even the case:

This CURRENTLY looks very bad for nastyfans/nastymining, as it is a
systemic design flaw which is not supported by the NastyFans.org policy.
(neither the exact wording, nor the "spirit", nor intended... so basically it's a bug.)

Edited to add:

I'm really glad that things are working as well as they are. Thanks for all the hard work nonnakip, I'm really glad this is only the second major bug I've noticed. The first one I noticed personally, as it affected the distribution of donations after I had picked up a few new seats.

Quote from: nonnakip on December 25, 2012, 12:25:30 PM

Distribution 213576 started at 2012-12-21 22:03:07. The distribution is based on the seats at that time. The 4 day delay is because I had problems. Future distributions will not have a delay. Sorry for the confusion.

... I think something related to the distribution being sent out manually or something? Is this still the way it's done or is there a new system? When someone picks up new seats & the ownership is transferred to the new fan/owner, like basically...

err... I guess my question is: How much delay is there? Is there a new practice or procedure for calculating "seats per fan" when distributing donations so that things get re-calculated to be "up to the minute" accurate to make sure everyone gets the right amount?

ErebusBat

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

I am the one who knocks

Quote from: nonnakip on January 19, 2013, 05:51:12 PM

Quote from: Newar on January 19, 2013, 11:36:13 AM

Quote from: nonnakip on January 19, 2013, 05:21:39 AM

Quote from: Akka on January 19, 2013, 05:03:42 AM

Couldn't you just set the seats in a kind of locked state as soon as the transaction arrives ( 0 confirmations) and transfer the seats as soon as it's confirmed?

This is a good idea. But the locked state needs some time limit. Maybe 24 hours?

Quote from: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/2324/what-is-the-longest-time-gap-between-blocks-in-the-last-year

The answer is that block 152218 followed block 152217 after a delay of 1 hour 39 minutes 7 seconds. This was the longest inter-block interval in 2011.

How about: 6 x 1 h 39 min ~= 12 hours?

This is not about long block times. The issue today was because the transaction was sent but it was not picked up by a miner until 13 blocks later. Maybe the tx fee was too small?

This is about how long we wait for transactions to be picked up. If the tx fee is too small maybe it is never picked up. But we do not want to lock seats forever. We need some time limit. If it is picked up after the limit then it becomes a donation to nastyfans or refunded to buyer minus 0.0005 BTC.

After sitting on my brain for a day I recommend:

1. The buyer must submit a transaction within 7 blocks. (This clarifies existing policy.)
2. The transaction must become part of the main chain within 1000 blocks. (This is new policy.)
3. The transaction is valid after 6 confirmations. (This is already policy.)
4. If a transaction is submitted within 7 blocks but does not become part of the main chain within 1000 blocks the purchase order is canceled. If the transaction becomes part of the main chain after the purchase order cancellation then nastyfans will refund the amount (minus 0.0005 BTC tx fee) to the buyer if the buyer accepts donations. Otherwise it becomes a nastyfans donation. (This is new policy.)

If there are no good objections I will start a poll for these policy additions.

Why the need for the donation distinction? Why not just send back to the sending address? I think taking funds like that could make nasty fans look very bad in the future.

nonnakip

hero member

Activity: 633

Merit: 591

Quote from: Newar on January 19, 2013, 11:36:13 AM

Quote from: nonnakip on January 19, 2013, 05:21:39 AM

Quote from: Akka on January 19, 2013, 05:03:42 AM

Couldn't you just set the seats in a kind of locked state as soon as the transaction arrives ( 0 confirmations) and transfer the seats as soon as it's confirmed?

This is a good idea. But the locked state needs some time limit. Maybe 24 hours?

Quote from: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/2324/what-is-the-longest-time-gap-between-blocks-in-the-last-year

The answer is that block 152218 followed block 152217 after a delay of 1 hour 39 minutes 7 seconds. This was the longest inter-block interval in 2011.

How about: 6 x 1 h 39 min ~= 12 hours?

This is not about long block times. The issue today was because the transaction was sent but it was not picked up by a miner until 13 blocks later. Maybe the tx fee was too small?

This is about how long we wait for transactions to be picked up. If the tx fee is too small maybe it is never picked up. But we do not want to lock seats forever. We need some time limit. If it is picked up after the limit then it becomes a donation to nastyfans or refunded to buyer minus 0.0005 BTC.

After sitting on my brain for a day I recommend:

1. The buyer must submit a transaction within 7 blocks. (This clarifies existing policy.)
2. The transaction must become part of the main chain within 1000 blocks. (This is new policy.)
3. The transaction is valid after 6 confirmations. (This is already policy.)
4. If a transaction is submitted within 7 blocks but does not become part of the main chain within 1000 blocks the purchase order is canceled. If the transaction becomes part of the main chain after the purchase order cancellation then nastyfans will refund the amount (minus 0.0005 BTC tx fee) to the buyer if the buyer accepts donations. Otherwise it becomes a nastyfans donation. (This is new policy.)

If there are no good objections I will start a poll for these policy additions.

l3sny

hero member

Activity: 859

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ErebusBat on January 19, 2013, 09:19:15 AM

Quote from: l3sny on January 19, 2013, 05:49:46 AM

is Nastyfans/Nasty Mining going facebook?
this logo is so cute!

Lord I hope not.

Newar

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1001

https://gliph.me/hUF

Quote from: nonnakip on January 19, 2013, 05:21:39 AM

Quote from: Akka on January 19, 2013, 05:03:42 AM

Couldn't you just set the seats in a kind of locked state as soon as the transaction arrives ( 0 confirmations) and transfer the seats as soon as it's confirmed?

This is a good idea. But the locked state needs some time limit. Maybe 24 hours?

Quote from: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/2324/what-is-the-longest-time-gap-between-blocks-in-the-last-year

The answer is that block 152218 followed block 152217 after a delay of 1 hour 39 minutes 7 seconds. This was the longest inter-block interval in 2011.

How about: 6 x 1 h 39 min ~= 12 hours?

ErebusBat

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

I am the one who knocks

Quote from: l3sny on January 19, 2013, 05:49:46 AM

is Nastyfans/Nasty Mining going facebook?
this logo is so cute!

Lord I hope not.

l3sny

hero member

Activity: 859

Merit: 1000

is Nastyfans/Nasty Mining going facebook?
this logo is so cute!

nonnakip

hero member

Activity: 633

Merit: 591

Quote from: Akka on January 19, 2013, 05:03:42 AM

Couldn't you just set the seats in a kind of locked state as soon as the transaction arrives ( 0 confirmations) and transfer the seats as soon as it's confirmed?

This is a good idea. But the locked state needs some time limit. Maybe 24 hours?

Quote from: Akka on January 19, 2013, 05:03:42 AM

If the transaction get double spend before it gets cancelled. I understand why there is a time limit to send the coins, but why is there some for them to confirm?

Some blocks are orphaned. The 6 confirmations give some protection that the transaction is part of the main chain. When ASICs start to play I think we see many false chains until difficulty adjusts.

Quote from: Akka on January 19, 2013, 05:03:42 AM

Also time to say, I really like the nasty fans solution, beats really beats any exchange IMO. Thanks nonnakip

Thank you. I try to create a solution that lets us all play with Bitcoin without trusting each other.

Akka

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1001

Couldn't you just set the seats in a kind of locked state as soon as the transaction arrives ( 0 confirmations) and transfer the seats as soon as it's confirmed?

If the transaction get double spend before it gets cancelled. I understand why there is a time limit to send the coins, but why is there some for them to confirm?

Also time to say, I really like the nasty fans solution, beats really beats any exchange IMO. Thanks nonnakip

nonnakip

hero member

Activity: 633

Merit: 591

Today a nastyfans member buys 1 seat for 0.27 BTC at 03:59:34 (UTC) and has until block 217102 to send payment. Here is the transaction:

https://blockchain.info/tx/dfb30e8dd29628b3ee14ff6b0b2d9946845a919b240cefffc2ebeab6327e92b4

The transaction was received 26 minutes after clicking "buy". This should be O.K.. But the transaction was not processed by a miner until block 217111. This is too late and the buy was automatically cancelled at block 217102. But Bitcoins were sent! Normally this is handled as a donation to nastyfans.

I transferred the 1 seat to the buyer and manually sent the Bitcoins to the seller. This is against nastyfans policy. But I believe it is O.K. in this situation. I do not know why the transaction needed so long to process.

As alternate I could send the Bitcoins minus 0.0005 BTC back to the buyer.

If this happens often in the future we must decide how to handle it. It is expensive for me to manually check such things.

l3sny

hero member

Activity: 859

Merit: 1000

soap opera

ErebusBat

hero member

Activity: 560

Merit: 500

I am the one who knocks

Looks like bASICs are shipping again: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--137285

silverfuture

legendary

Activity: 947

Merit: 1008

central banking = outdated protocol

Thanks for the generous donation!

nonnakip

hero member

Activity: 633

Merit: 591

@NastyMining Twitter

Distribution 217037 is complete.

artisbigshirts

member

Activity: 60

Merit: 10

dwda

Quote from: laubzega on January 17, 2013, 10:38:48 PM

May I use the logo on http://bitcoinenterprises.org/nasty/ ?

I don't mind, though it depends on if it is going to be used for NastyFans.org, then if nonnakip would mind.

They are GPUs, it's a nod towards the iconic GPU mining period of bitcoin lore.
Sure it isn't the most relevant for today's hardware, but it is recognizable.

I used a different perspective for NastyFans to utilize the fan visual pun. hehe

kuzetsa

sr. member

Activity: 369

Merit: 250

Quote from: Newar on January 18, 2013, 08:45:56 AM

Quote from: artisbigshirts on January 17, 2013, 01:15:06 PM

Hey guys, I just checked out NastyFans.org and noticed they lacked a definitive logo.
So I took some time to create a nice logo that I feel accents the NASTY MINING logo nicely.
Check it out, hope you like it:

Is that a GPU? ;-)

...

My own best-guess?

Visually, it looks more like a GPU board than any other type of hardware (mining or otherwise)

But I guess it's for enhanced consistency / logo recognition?

I would guess the NastyFans logo is inspired by, and based on a similarly stylized drawing of GPU boards:

See here:

Still the logo in this thread's original post
as of Friday, January 18th 2013 at or around
9:35 AM Local NY time / 1435 UTC

The current "nasty mining" logo seems to be based on a pair of GPUs.
(though perhaps from a different viewing angle / perspective)

...

Short version: Yes. They're GPUs.

... And none of our mining hardware looks like the stuff in the logo for NastyMining, nor the (proposed) logo for NastyFans.

Newar

legendary

Activity: 1358

Merit: 1001

https://gliph.me/hUF

Quote from: artisbigshirts on January 17, 2013, 01:15:06 PM

Hey guys, I just checked out NastyFans.org and noticed they lacked a definitive logo.
So I took some time to create a nice logo that I feel accents the NASTY MINING logo nicely.
Check it out, hope you like it:

Is that a GPU? ;-)

novusordo

sr. member

Activity: 800

Merit: 250

Quote from: Carnth on January 17, 2013, 02:08:24 PM

I took some time to create a nice logo
Check it out, hope you like it:

Looks way nicer than the old one! Good job.

laubzega

newbie

Activity: 19

Merit: 0

May I use the logo on http://bitcoinenterprises.org/nasty/ ?

Topic: 📈 NastyFans: The Bitcoin Enthusiast Fan Club (est. 2012) - page 173. (Read 959381 times)