Topic: 📈 NastyFans: The Bitcoin Enthusiast Fan Club (est. 2012) - page 171. (Read 959607 times)

Please think that the system is still in development. So sometimes I use manual triggers for things like distributions to be sure it works as it should.

For distribution 218055 the new things are:

• include refunds for overpayments
• do not distribute the 0.006 BTC that I donated to replace refunds

The refunds work O.K. but there was a error and my 0.006 BTC was distributed. This was human error because I forgot to subtract 0.006 from total before distribution. For the next distribution I will not distribute 0.006 BTC. Then everything is clean again.

Distributions are more complicated when they include refunds. But it saves tx fees to include the refunds in distributions. This allows refunds in full. And I do not expect to do refunds often.

Automated?

Partially automated?

Do you need to manually run a command or what? ... The transactions aren't generated at the same time every week / there doesn't appear to have been one yet this week, so I'm just curious.
(I run a very well-connected bitcoin node, and rarely fewer than 50-60 connections to the bitcoin network, so I typically spot most transactions before they get their first confirmation)

Basically, I'm just asking because it'll be easier to interpolate data to determine the actual mining rate (donations versus difficulty / time / etc.) if the distribution is run on a consistent schedule... Of course, the "payout threshold" will still cause some quantization jitter, but that's no big deal (so far it seems like the pools are set up to wait for a whole 1 BTC before payouts)

Thanks for all the time and effort getting things running

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Edited to add:

Ah, and 6 hours later, here it is:

Today's distribution 663f55206f0c54bbfbdcef6c991c5aa44ca6fdcae8c98a5bc5d250fb3f14bce0 - Size: 4337 (bytes) / 0.0005 BTC transaction fee

Considering the size, that fee is actually a little low. I suppose it was just high enough for the network NOT to outright refuse to relay it, though it might be a while before the first confirmation in a block.

Thanks again

Yes. This is a good point. But I would contact you and we discuss the issue first. If it is not clearly a abuse situation then I have no problems with it.


All funds do pass through nastyfans. This is how transactions are confirmed before transferring ownership and sending payment to seller. But nastyfans is only temporary storage as proxy.

I do not want to be a bank. If members can pre-pay for orders then they must also be able to cancel orders and receive a refund. This is like a bank.

Example: A member pre-pays a order for 10000 seats at 0.01 BTC. Now nastyfans is holding 100 BTC for a order that will never happen. I do not want this. I do not want your Bitcoins. Please do not trust me with them.


I agree here. Many people use exchanges for financial gain in the exchange but do not really care about the securities that are traded. For us this translates to members using nastyfans to earn Bitcoin from trading seats but do not care about NASTY MINING. This is not why nastyfans exists. Our interest should be NASTY MINING.

The auction was never intended as a medium for high-frequency trading. It is available for non-members to become members or members to increase/reduce the fan level or members to exit nastyfans. It is not intended for earning Bitcoin by buying low and selling high. Some members might do this and that is their decision. But that was not my intention and it is the reason I did not try to introduce a bid component of the auction.

I am willing to introduce a bid component based on e-mail notification... if I decide to allow e-mail notification... but I will not accept Bitcoins in any form as advance payment.

Yes. That is what the cancel button is for.

nastyfans abuse is only when members allow the purchase order to automatically cancel. And in abuse cases I will not terminate a account immediately. Maybe it was a accident. But if I see obvious abuses then there is danger of account termination.

Example: A member clicks to buy 800 seats and lets the purchase order auto-cancel. The 800 seats are locked for 7 blocks! And if a member does this with repeats then it is clearly abusing nastyfans.

Members do not need to be afraid. Be free to try features and click buttons. Maybe you want to let a 1-seat buy auto-cancel to see what it looks like. Do it. Do not be afraid. Members need to be comfortable with the nastyfans site. But try to keep the experiments harmless.

This would not work.  Email, by design, is not reliable for time sensitive communications.  I go on vacation and then out of the blue some NastyFans orders I placed months ago come up so I get dinged for abuse, not gonna work without a very large time frame and sending multiple emails.

WHile I think it would be nice I see of no way to make it work without the funds passing through nonnakip, which he has stated he has NO interest in doing.

Am I mistaken?

I just manually canceled a purchase order:

Basically, I was having some problems with "microcoins" on my end. Fee was gonna be huge, and my balance (after fee) wasn't enough so I manually canceled so someone else would have an opportunity to get the seat I was about to buy.

Theoretically, I could've tried to send the transaction without a fee, but it would've taken a while to get confirmed and I didn't want to run the risk of things auto-canceling or holding things up.

... it's ok that I manually canceled once I realized the fee was gonna be a problem, right?

(The required fee for me to spend this many microcoins was 7x larger than I expected)

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Edited to add:

nevermind I guess. It worked this time.

^This is why I hate microcoins though. The fee is rather unpredictable.

Just a brainfart about this:
It's technically possible to prepare and sign a transaction without posting it to the blockchain, there just isn't a convenient UI for that at the moment. Would it be possible for nastyfans to accept and store such a transaction in JSON format until such time as the seller wants to make the sale. Nastyfans could then immediately release the transaction to the network so the buyer need not be online and no-one would have to wait for their funds.

There are some caveats with this that I can see right off the bat:
1. The destination address needs to be known to prepare the transaction. This requires Nastyfans to act as a proxy for the funds when the actual transfer happens. Is this really any different from sending the funds to Nastyfans in advance?

2. There is no convenient way to prepare but not send a transaction (to my knowledge).

There are probably other issues that I'm not thinking of right now, please discuss!

If I add e-mail notification then I can see this is a possibility. It could work opposite of now. Buyers set price per seat and number of seats and e-mail address for sale notification. Sellers specify how many seats to sell and Bitcoin address to receive payment. Then e-mail is sent to buyers to send payment before block N. If payment is not received before block N the purchase order is automatically canceled and this is nastyfans abuse.

This would all work with current policy. But with current policy payment must be sent within 7 blocks. For e-mail notification this is too fast because maybe buyer does not live on the internet. If we want this then policy must change to allow maybe 145 blocks (1 day) to send payment. Or 433 (3 days) to send payment.

A small suggestion for the fansite: the auction section currently holds a list of seats available for purchase and the corresponding price the seat holder is asking for. I would like to suggest the auction section also hold a list of buyers and what prices are offered by the buyer. Having only a sell-side order-book unnecessarily lowers the price since you can only see what sellers are willing to accept for their seats, and you know much less about what buyers are willing to pay for seats - I think this creates a kind of information asymmetry that eventually has the effect that price turns out lower than if an order book was held both for the sell and the buy side.

However, it might be hard to do - and it might be even harder to do it in a fair manner that does not force nonnakip to assume responsability for the funds of others, but I'm sure there's some smart person in here who might figure out a way to solve it?

I see no benefit to this.  It isn't like the discussion is cluttering this thread as it is all relavent.

The main reason I do not want to send e-mail is because I try to limit the data collected from members. I did not want to collect private data like e-mail. I plan to add a notification when a member signs in so it is easy to see what is new. But I also read that some members do not want to sign in. I understand this.

So maybe I allow members to provide e-mail addresses and I send e-mail updates for polls and distributions and nastyfans site updates. Let this cook on my brain for a few days.

I will not provide message board or forum on nastyfans.org. nastyfans.org is open to general public but this does not interest spammers because it is not possible to post anything. If I add a message board or forum then we have spammer problems. I have no interest to play police man or moderate posts.

I am happy to create a dedicated thread on bitcointalk.org so we do not fill the NASTY MINING thread. But where? Trading Discussion? Mining Support? Mining Speculation? Service Discussion? Maybe OgNasty likes us being here? If not we can move.

There's also the twitter feed to follow about i.e. polls: https://twitter.com/NastyMining

I think this forum is doing a pretty good job already. I get notified when this topic is updated via email and I can even make smileys like this:   


You are correct, Nasty Fans does not send email.
And now, my proposal for the FAQs.

FAQ #1: Does Nasty Fans send email?
Answer: No.

FAQ #2: Why?
Answer: Because.

FAQ #3: Then where can I get updates/notifications on Nasty Fans news and policy changes?
Answer: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nastyfans-the-bitcoin-enthusiast-fan-club-est-2012-86854 and https://twitter.com/NastyMining

So far, policy changes have been discussed and debated right here, on this forum--in this topic. I'm OK with this. I get emailed when this topic is updated. You can too, by clicking the "Notify" button on the bottom of this page.

I believe that nonnakip has stated in the past that nasty fans will not send email.

A FAQ on the site would indeed be a good idea. Maybe also an option to receive an notification email when there is a new policy change, would be great.
Don't now if this is hard to implement but it would help for people to notice new changes so they don't miss it and feel left out.

BTW your doing awesome work nonnakip

Going forward, could we have a forum function on nastyfans.org to address some of the issues shareholders may have?  Along with it possibly post an FAQ under the policy to address some issues that have arisen.  I think it's good to have a specific venue to address issues and questions, but I'd like to see less accusations on this particular forum about how OgNasty/Nonnakip is a scammer, and more posts about operational updates.  My thought is in part if you're logged in through nastyfans that should also work to confirm you are who you say you are.  Thoughts?

Thanks for the clarification nonnakip, but I imagine what OgNasty meant was that he would request to you have transfer the seats to camolist.

OgNasty is not able to do that even if wanted. The only seats OgNasty controls are the seats OgNasty owns. OgNasty's offer to help is probably because camolist does not trust me yet.

Dear camolist,

You claimed your seats when I sent you the first e-mail. That is good. After you did not set a donation address I sent you another e-mail informing you of this.

In all e-mails it states that if you have problems or questions please PM OgNasty or post on this forum. You did not do that until now. And you still have never PM me.

nastyfans was created to help NASTY MINING fans organize themselves. We accept donations and distribute donations to members that provide a donation address.

GLBSE has no meaning to me or nastyfans. GLBSE does not exist. When nastyfans started I use GLBSE data to help identify our best fans. But I did not and will not set your nastyfans account settings for you.

I am sorry that you are angry. But I am not hiding here.

You are demanding back payments. But past donations are already distributed. I recommend setting a donation address so you do not miss the next one.

I am willing to send you the amount of donations you missed from my personal savings. I do this even though you are 100% at fault here. I do this on the conditions:

• You set a donation address in your account.
• You read the nastyfans about and policy pages.
• You apologize publicly to OgNasty for calling him a scammer. OgNasty is doing great with NASTY MINING. And the nastyfans are doing good to reorganize after GLBSE joke.
• You treat nastyfans with respect. We are together to have fun. If you do not want to play then leave.

agreed about the custom site

i have past glbse listings that have moved onto  bitfunder, BTC-TC, and crypto. so far no problems, even with the one i missed claiming for several weeks. all dividends were there waiting in the account

i liked the idea behind this listing on glbse. actually not sure why i had so little of it bought


just wanting problems with the way it is being handled post glbse to be sorted out.

there is no doubt about what shares i owned (i have a message from OgNasty on this forum confirming share list) but i am being told past payments are gone and to get future payments i need to admit i am wrong / sorry and beg for him to be so kind to give me seats.