Topic: Nefario - page 50. (Read 198705 times)

"Within a day" aka "by the end of today" was the story two days ago. Meanwhile GLBSE briefly came up this morning allowing people to claim by address and email, then asking for id copies, sharpie in pooper pics and other goodness. Three hours later it was closed again saying "we can't process anymore".

What Nefario's saying on the phone and what he's doing are worlds apart. He should start his own phonesex service, seems to be working.

Garr, thanks for you information. If Nefario can resolve everything before the end of next week, I still hold that Nefario is honest. ( he sometimes over estimate the speed he can solve things, like the "later today" update. A lot people act like this. Considering that Nefario maybe under some pressures, some delay can be forgivable.)

I just had a call with James, and he has said that there should be a way to claim what yours on GLBSE within a day, and everything in terms of shareholder info and people getting their btc back should be resolved this week.

He definitely could have closed the exchange a bit more gracefully, but according to him, he doesn't want to hold the high amount of liability he has attained any longer.

So let's stop the fud for a bit, and see how this week goes.

Best of luck to everyone involved,
Garrett

Yes, but like i said. Asicminer issuer even plans to ask his shareholders how many shares they had and try to recreate the ownerlist out of thin air. I cant possibly imagine this would work good. So having a userbase, even when you cant be fully sure its all true and you only can check the integrity a little bit is way way better than recreating the userbase out of thin air.

Regarding the swap you mentioned. Of course can this happen when the leaker isnt honest. But the shareholder would claim something is wrong at least. Maybe the issuer remember something too and when the scammer did the same with another share it maybe is identified. But again i would say it cant be a foolprof method to trust a leaked database. Its only to have something instead nothing.

I know this is no fine way. Its only a thought for a backupplan when it turns out that we wont get the data at all and nothing other works.

I believe when this turns really out as a scam then the user funds are lost. But then the database is of no use for the scammer too. So getting a bounty at least for it could be a bonus on top. For the scammer(s) or someone other. Its not the best idea to reward a scam on top but the loss and trouble will be even higher for the shareholders when they dont have the db.

I dont know if we need most of issuers, shareholders and so on to agree. I mean what counts is the bounty that can be seen in the net. Who wants it back will give a small part to the bounty. Whoever dont need it doesnt need to give. But he shouldnt wine afterwards when the chance is gone without success.

Whoever give the db will get the reward first. So there maybe is a compete when more than one person has access. Maybe someone calls the datacenter and makes an employee an offer or something. Whatever. I dont think that the bounty has to be a crazy amount. If someone can bring the db and is willing to do so the btc bounty probably must not be too high. I mean for them would it be the same. Selling a otherwise useless db and getting something or have nothing.

And yes, of course i hope this will turn out good anyway so these thoughts wont be needed.

Well, it could be checked if it looks valid but you have no proof for it so it would be questionable if issuers should rely on it. For instance it would only require a swap of the Username and email field (eventually the password too) so A and B assets would be exchanged. I bet  only A or B would call this solution 'better than nothing' especially if there is a huge diference in the number of shares hold. Instead of this a honest issuer could take legal actions against nefario and the other GLBSE partner to give them the share database, maybe with a opt out option if a shareholder likes to kepp anonymous. This would take some time for sure but the dividends could held in excrow til then.

Obtaining the database in an illegal way and using this data would open all door to legal actions againt honest issuers.

+1

But realistically it seems very difficult, if not impossible, to set this up:
Apart from the DB leaking/surfacing (with funding required... and a treasurer, etc.) you need to get most of these people issuers/holders/scammers/anonimity super freaks to agree...
And there are not many guarantees it will solve the majority of people's problems, such as "free balances" and IPO funds being returned.

Perhaps it gathers steam, but it will take time and is such as complicated task that i see it as unfeasible, unfortunately.
Maybe there are other positive developments in the meantime.

There are some honest asset issuers that want to know their shareholders. Speaking of asicminer and puremining at least. Asicminer for example even wants to guess only who has what shares when he doesnt get the data. That means everything would be better then guessing only.

Goat can decline the voucher code system. I dont know for what reason. If it was anonymity then a leaked db wouldnt have this problem. If he ist honest he probably could take part in such try.

Regarding the doctored db i wrote 2 post back about. It can be checked a little bit but...

Again... i say having a database with all the risks is better then having nothing.

I spoke with some other person and we asked ourselfes if there cant be a platform created with all trades stored in another blockchain beneath blockchain of bitcoin. The offers shouldnt be centralised but instead stored at every client taking part in the net.

If someone wants to trade then he checks the offers and when he want to trade he verifies at maybe 1000 clients if it is a true one. When this is done the trade is correct.

Its only a thought but maybe a new platform could be created decentralized this way.

Regarding the trade itself maybe the thoughts from the threads about secure decentralized p2p trading of different coin-currencies can be taken in advance to make the trade itself secure.

Only thinking about because i think the centralized effort failed and wont have much success in future because of its risks.

A lot of somes. No doubt it will be easy to convince most share owning customers. It will be a lot harder to convince asset issuers, since they only get to lose, and without them there's no benefit. Goat already has declined to use the unsafe voucher code system which was in place temporarily.

And then do not forget the possibility of a real database with some entries doctored. At least one person with a scammer tag already has access to it.

I think its impossible to create a fake db out of thin air. I mean i have backed up the whol glbse.com-site a month ago and with that i still only have the tradeprice, date and volume and the dividends paid. Every other date regarding who got what dividend and who owned what share is impossible to fake. I mean i and all others know what shares they owned at the end. At least nearly. A scammer cant possibly know that.
But you mean the person getting the db will set himself some shares in it? Possible. I only can think that the numbers dont match at the end. Persons claiming that they had more shares than the db states or that the overall shares are too many. Its only a small way to check. At the end you have to trust that the database is mostly correct and the leaker some honest idealist. Its having something or nothing at the end.

Paying to the wrong person wont happen when the accountant of the bounty is carefully checking where the leak appeared first and what address was with it. Of course some check should be done if the data is matching or not too before paying. If all is fine then the leaker should have leaked it in a way that everyone knows he was first. I think thats possible.

Everyone getting in isnt needed. The one that wants to pay something into the bounty probably are the ones that want to stay anonymous and want to get their shares back. If someone dont want to spend he probably dont need the shares so its his thing. When the bounty is good enough to move some things and it is possible to get the db somehow then maybe it will work. If not the accountant can pay the bounty back. So he should be trusted by all.

Sure? That's a plan for disaster to start with. Encrypted backup should have been distributed to all partial key owners. And of course verified occasionally.

Please specify a test how we can decide if to trust such a DB, or else all is vain. And how to insure against the potential liability of paying to the wrong person. And how to get everyone onto this boat.

The market was GLBSE. Note I said easily accessible and decently safe on purpose, and if you think what we have now -- no proof of ownership at all -- is anywhere aequivalent you are even more stupid than usual. Just feeding this troll once.

A bounty could be setup lying at an address know to the forum. So everyone that wants to donate can send money there. The person that controls this address should be someone honorable that everyone trusts. And maybe he should be anonymous because the intend of this bounty maybe isnt fully legal.

When the bounty is rising then maybe, who knows through which ways, the database comes to light. The user making it public at least should give an address with it so that the bounty can go to it. If the bounty is moved to that address could be seen in blockchain.info.

If nothing happens after maybe 2 months the bounty accountant sends all bounty back to original address. Making is as easy as possible. And as a reward the accountant can create a thread to collect some bonus for his work. I presume the bonus will be higher with success but i think when the persons get their money back they are happy too and will donate.

Thats how i think it could be done. It would be the best and only version for the customers that want to stay anonymous. And in some days/week for the rest too.

I think if it goes scam than the money at glbse is lost forever. So only the sharesstat could be saved this way unfortunately.

I dont know if it would help nefario to delete evidence if the sec is really after him. I think that would be interpreted worse than if he had the evidence still.

So the next steps would be to find someone who is reputated and willing to do this and to find a date when bountycollecting will start. So when its sure it turned to scam now far away from doubts.

Any other thougts about?

Why doesn't Nefario just copy the database and send it to a couple of trusted members of the community.

Then claim GLBSE was hacked to cover his ass when law enforcement agencies come banging on his door.

At the rate with which bitcoin businesses get hacked he would have a  more than credible defense....

Sadly enough I see this as a valid option

All this started presumably when SEC got involved after Pirate's ponzi collapsed. It is in the best interest of Pirate and of PPT operators (goat, for example) that the database is never released to any authorities. That is certainly something to keep in mind when interpreting recent events and the behavior of everyone involved.

Sebastian, do you have any suggestion on how to set this up?

In my case it sounds like a way out, having 99% of BTC invested in assets (not much lying around free on GLBSE) and a big part of those 99% on assets whose issuers are wanting to cooperate and extend their relationship with holders.

But others have to think about the possibility of asset issuers not honouring commitments or deeming such database invalid and also how to get back "free balance" they might have/have had on GLBSE.

The scammers for sure will avoid attempts to recognize ownership of assets... and the "free balance" issue is entirely on Nefario's hands, AFAIU.

Its a shame to have to think about such. But i think at least the persons that want to stay anonymous could see a possible chance to stay anonymous and get their shares back. And every other person if nefario really doesnt deliver.

Posting here because someone might have missed it.

Puremining (GLBSE bond) asset issuer has a positive, problem-solving attitude regarding the current situation:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1250765


Now... If that database could surface somehow... I'd be willing to contribute to that.
[Wait, am I AGAIN throwing BTC at yet another scamming opportunity??]