[NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 460.

jkoil

hero member

Activity: 834

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Nxt NEM

Quote from: utopianfuture on February 02, 2014, 09:46:33 AM

About the forging mechanism, here is my observation. NXT's forging incomes mainly go to big accounts with 5 millions or more, especially to a few of 30 million + accounts.

also I have supposed that: rich get richer - unless they "give" away a lot of tx fees.
But that whole issue is just a guess until there is enough data...

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

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Internet of Value

Quote from: utopianfuture on February 01, 2014, 09:42:57 AM

Some updates on Reddit direct advertising. As it turns out Reddit advertising demand greatly exceeds the supply of advertising slots in the Bitcoin sub-reddit.

I managed to book 1 day slot from 2/28 to 3/1 on the Bitcoin sub-reddit; fully paid for and ready to go.
The title is "A new kind of cryptocurrency. The first egalitarian coin. Join NEM to change the world " with the link go directly to our front page.

Litecoin sub-reddit is also fully booked even further out. So I turned to the Dogecoin sub-reddit. This ad would run from 2/5 to 2/7 for two days. The title is "Envy no more. The first egalitarian coin. Join the movement. NEM registration is open" with the link go directly to our front page.

These are trial runs and funded by my personal budget so we will have to see how effective they are. I will stop the "share the word to get a stake" after page 20 until 2 day of Doge sub-reddit advertising is over. We don't even know if the fundraising is still open on 2/28 when we have the Bitcoin subreddit advertising but at that point I expect that we would have much more details about NEM development plan and a good front site for NEM.

All of these ad are subject to approval by Reddit so nothing is certain yet.

All these ads have been approved by Reddit and would go online according to the schedule. So we are going to bombard Doge reddit headquarter in two day starting 2/5

I will probably put some more ads in some other sub-reddits between 2/8 -2/15.

luckygenough56

legendary

Activity: 1526

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Quote from: Xpedite on February 02, 2014, 09:41:18 AM

Further, I think transparent forging can not be touched so that is out of the question.
The idea about taking the "age" of coins into account can be interesting if you mean the age since last transaction.

This would certainly reward new/active users without creating GODS and GIANTS, so if something like that can be achieved I believe this is benificial.

Taking the age of coins is a good idea imo

Also a forging rate ceiling at a given amount of coins would be good also, thus a forging rate a little more efficient until this ceiling, but it's probably too hard to implement.

mthcl

sr. member

Activity: 376

Merit: 300

Quote from: patmast3r on February 02, 2014, 09:10:12 AM

NEMO reminds me too much of the kids movie. I like the movie but it's not a good association for a supposed currency.

For me, NEMO associates with Jules Verne

utopianfuture

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Internet of Value

Quote from: Xpedite on February 02, 2014, 09:41:18 AM

Quote from: patmast3r on February 02, 2014, 08:00:37 AM

Quote from: Xpedite on February 02, 2014, 07:33:48 AM

Regarding the forging algorithm. Are we still exploring options to improve this over NXT?

I am convinced that the design of the forging algorithm is one of the major things that may convice people to invest in NEM!

For this I believe the goal of the forging concept should be:

1. To attract as many people as possible to invest in NEM (preferrably even small amounts)
2. To make NEM more than just an investment

What do I mean by that:

Well I guess we can all agree that the forging algorithm of NXT does not attract the regular joes to the game. I believe this is exactly what we should aim for with NEM because there are alot of regular joes Cheesy

This would also make it a more stable currency compared to when the majority of users are investors that only aim to make money with it.
Once the currency has proved to be stable you will establish trust. I believe a lack of thrust is the major argument merchants still have against cryptocurrencies. (and obviously the legal grey area debate but this can not be countered by the design of NEM Wink

)
If we could make a concept that will attracht merchants (obviously this is long term thinking), I suppose this will benifit NEM hugely!

Please let's debate on this and share some thoughts.

As long as the transparent forging isn't affected I think we can think about doing things differently. I always thought about taking the "age" of coins into account like I think peercoin does.

Based on the post below I suppose things will be different:

Quote from: Thies1965 on January 29, 2014, 02:59:29 PM

Mining is called forging with NXT.
It is advertised that transparent forging is one of the key factors and differentiators of NXT.

I tried to understand the algorithm behind that forging mechanism. I did not find anything (except looking into the decompiled code).

IMHO: NXT concept of forging does not follow the approach of 'fairness'; it generates GODS and GIANTS. The more NXT you have the more NXT you will receive. This approach does not support the concept behind NEM.

A much more flexible and less chunk building algorithm has to be developed/defined.

Any suggestions / ideas?

Further, I think transparent forging can not be touched so that is out of the question.
The idea about taking the "age" of coins into account can be interesting if you mean the age since last transaction.

This would certainly reward new/active users without creating GODS and GIANTS, so if something like that can be achieved I believe this is benificial.

About the forging mechanism, here is my observation. NXT's forging incomes mainly go to big accounts with 5 millions or more, especially to a few of 30 million + accounts.
NEM won't have that kind of forging fee concentration thanks to the initial distribution design. I would suggest we stick with the traditional forging mechanism as in NXT as well as PPC. It would save us a lot of valuable times to invent a new forging mechanism that is not be gamed or attacked easily.

Xpedite

sr. member

Activity: 258

Merit: 250

DRAMA: Dumb Retards Asking More Attention

Quote from: patmast3r on February 02, 2014, 08:00:37 AM

Quote from: Xpedite on February 02, 2014, 07:33:48 AM

Regarding the forging algorithm. Are we still exploring options to improve this over NXT?

I am convinced that the design of the forging algorithm is one of the major things that may convice people to invest in NEM!

For this I believe the goal of the forging concept should be:

1. To attract as many people as possible to invest in NEM (preferrably even small amounts)
2. To make NEM more than just an investment

What do I mean by that:

Well I guess we can all agree that the forging algorithm of NXT does not attract the regular joes to the game. I believe this is exactly what we should aim for with NEM because there are alot of regular joes Cheesy

This would also make it a more stable currency compared to when the majority of users are investors that only aim to make money with it.
Once the currency has proved to be stable you will establish trust. I believe a lack of thrust is the major argument merchants still have against cryptocurrencies. (and obviously the legal grey area debate but this can not be countered by the design of NEM Wink

)
If we could make a concept that will attracht merchants (obviously this is long term thinking), I suppose this will benifit NEM hugely!

Please let's debate on this and share some thoughts.

As long as the transparent forging isn't affected I think we can think about doing things differently. I always thought about taking the "age" of coins into account like I think peercoin does.

Based on the post below I suppose things will be different:

Quote from: Thies1965 on January 29, 2014, 02:59:29 PM

Mining is called forging with NXT.
It is advertised that transparent forging is one of the key factors and differentiators of NXT.

I tried to understand the algorithm behind that forging mechanism. I did not find anything (except looking into the decompiled code).

IMHO: NXT concept of forging does not follow the approach of 'fairness'; it generates GODS and GIANTS. The more NXT you have the more NXT you will receive. This approach does not support the concept behind NEM.

A much more flexible and less chunk building algorithm has to be developed/defined.

Any suggestions / ideas?

Further, I think transparent forging can not be touched so that is out of the question.
The idea about taking the "age" of coins into account can be interesting if you mean the age since last transaction.

This would certainly reward new/active users without creating GODS and GIANTS, so if something like that can be achieved I believe this is benificial.

patmast3r

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 1001

Quote from: gimre on February 02, 2014, 08:01:13 AM

Quote from: Mr. Socko on February 02, 2014, 07:52:48 AM

I'm just wondering if the ticker symbol of the coin should be tweaked a bit. I saw this mentioned in another thread... I think the name of the currency might sound better if it was "nemo" coin.

New Economy MOvement

No Envy MOvement

It still works and sounds better.

yeah, and sound like kids toy...

NEMO reminds me too much of the kids movie. I like the movie but it's not a good association for a supposed currency.
NEM sounds more serious and genuine.

utopianfuture

sr. member

Activity: 602

Merit: 268

Internet of Value

Quote from: lx001 on February 02, 2014, 09:04:43 AM

Do they accept Paypal? PM'd them and no answer

I am working on how-to so it is not operational right now. Thanks.

UP

lx001

hero member

Activity: 1134

Merit: 502

Do they accept Paypal? PM'd them and no answer

CrazyEyes

full member

Activity: 137

Merit: 100

NEMO is pretty.

ThomasZ80

newbie

Activity: 24

Merit: 0

I like the name suggestion NEMO.

NEMO +1

HalfEvil

newbie

Activity: 5

Merit: 0

Hey, about the bounties, I posted a logo/currency symbol in the registration thread (post 397)

gimre

legendary

Activity: 866

Merit: 1002

Quote from: Mr. Socko on February 02, 2014, 07:52:48 AM

I'm just wondering if the ticker symbol of the coin should be tweaked a bit. I saw this mentioned in another thread... I think the name of the currency might sound better if it was "nemo" coin.

New Economy MOvement

No Envy MOvement

It still works and sounds better.

yeah, and sound like kids toy...

patmast3r

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Xpedite on February 02, 2014, 07:33:48 AM

Regarding the forging algorithm. Are we still exploring options to improve this over NXT?

I am convinced that the design of the forging algorithm is one of the major things that may convice people to invest in NEM!

For this I believe the goal of the forging concept should be:

1. To attract as many people as possible to invest in NEM (preferrably even small amounts)
2. To make NEM more than just an investment

What do I mean by that:

Well I guess we can all agree that the forging algorithm of NXT does not attract the regular joes to the game. I believe this is exactly what we should aim for with NEM because there are alot of regular joes Cheesy

This would also make it a more stable currency compared to when the majority of users are investors that only aim to make money with it.
Once the currency has proved to be stable you will establish trust. I believe a lack of thrust is the major argument merchants still have against cryptocurrencies. (and obviously the legal grey area debate but this can not be countered by the design of NEM Wink

)
If we could make a concept that will attracht merchants (obviously this is long term thinking), I suppose this will benifit NEM hugely!

Please let's debate on this and share some thoughts.

As long as the transparent forging isn't affected I think we can think about doing things differently. I always thought about taking the "age" of coins into account like I think peercoin does.

gimre

legendary

Activity: 866

Merit: 1002

Quote from: opticalcarrier on February 02, 2014, 12:13:12 AM

or instead of a text file, it could be binary format, where instead of 100 character passphrase, its 256 bits of data representing the private key. In this case the client will not perform the first sha256 hash that it normally runs against the passphrase to obtain the private key.

If I could upvote this 1000 times, I would.

NXT API should be changed, it should be client's resposibility, to secure your wallet.

Also IMHO this would actually be MORE secure than what it is now, as the secret KEYS could be TRULY* random.

*-now they are output of sha, so secret key is as secure as your pass

Mr. Socko

newbie

Activity: 42

Merit: 0

I'm just wondering if the ticker symbol of the coin should be tweaked a bit. I saw this mentioned in another thread... I think the name of the currency might sound better if it was "nemo" coin.

New Economy MOvement

No Envy MOvement

It still works and sounds better.

A catchy, easy to pronounce name can make a big difference and "nemo" is a lot better sounding when saying the name of the currency than "Nem" ... just an observation. Hey I'll give you 100 NEMs or Hey I'll give you 100 NEMOS... which will catch on faster?

Yeah that name is used in an animated movie so I don't know if that would be helpful or harmful but that really wasn't the intention. Plus NXT is doing fairly well and it doesn't have a fancy sounding currency name either, so I might just be splitting hairs here. The important thing is the underlying technology and distribution system.

Xpedite

sr. member

Activity: 258

Merit: 250

DRAMA: Dumb Retards Asking More Attention

Regarding the forging algorithm. Are we still exploring options to improve this over NXT?

I am convinced that the design of the forging algorithm is one of the major things that may convice people to invest in NEM!

For this I believe the goal of the forging concept should be:

1. To attract as many people as possible to invest in NEM (preferrably even small amounts)
2. To make NEM more than just an investment

What do I mean by that:

Well I guess we can all agree that the forging algorithm of NXT does not attract the regular joes to the game. I believe this is exactly what we should aim for with NEM because there are alot of regular joes Cheesy

This would also make it a more stable currency compared to when the majority of users are investors that only aim to make money with it.
Once the currency has proved to be stable you will establish trust. I believe a lack of thrust is the major argument merchants still have against cryptocurrencies. (and obviously the legal grey area debate but this can not be countered by the design of NEM Wink

)
If we could make a concept that will attracht merchants (obviously this is long term thinking), I suppose this will benifit NEM hugely!

Please let's debate on this and share some thoughts.

patmast3r

hero member

Activity: 980

Merit: 1001

Quote from: opticalcarrier on February 02, 2014, 12:37:24 AM

Go with a wallet.dat setup for normal users. Power users can click on the brain icon and enter in their own high-strength passphrase after being warned of the importance of a truly high-powered passphrase.

This sounds pretty similar to what Ripple does but better.
When you create a Ripple wallet you can choose the store it at Payward (brain) or only in your local browser (wallet.dat). What makes this worse than a real wallet.dat i.e. a local file is that as soon as you clear the browsers cache your wallet is gone

My ideal wallet would be both a file and a brainwallet but the brain functionality should be something i can turn on and off as needed.

Maybe this makes it more clear:

If I look at NXT right now there is only a brainwallet and I can't store it locally. If I wan't to forge I need to have my node running all the time.
What If I could store my wallet locally but it would also be accessible from other clients, as long as my node is running ? That way you would have an offline wallet, but you could make it accessible remotly if you need it to by runing your own node.

The client that I wan't to access my wallet from would then have to have my "home node" in his peers but that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

opticalcarrier

full member

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Merit: 100

Quote from: gramufibus on February 02, 2014, 12:31:03 AM

...If one needs to simply enter account then passphrase, You can think of the Tab key to flip text fields as just another keystroke, and one that is guaranteed. So from a brute forcing perspective, it's possibly less secure than the existing system.

it wouldnt work that way - you wouldnt know what that account# was before you tried to create it. when I referred to 2 fields being used to create an account, with the second being the passphrase, the first would just be a plaintext whatever you wanted to use.

then both fields would be used (key-stretching) to generate the private/public/acct numbers.

but the more I think about this, the less I like it. One of the things I remember from my Human/Computer Interaction class at university is that this probably too closely resembles the standard username/password setup, which people assume as "online" Where with blockchains, all cracking is offline, thus the need for much more secure passphrases.

So IMO we shouldnt go the key stretching route. Go with a wallet.dat setup for normal users. Power users can click on the brain icon and enter in their own high-strength passphrase after being warned of the importance of a truly high-powered passphrase.

gramufibus

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Activity: 54

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I think what they mean is they want to be able to withdraw their nem from the network(like bitcoin), unloading it from the brain wallet. It seems the easiest way to do that would to have two accounts, a brainwallet account and a local offline account.
This feature would have to be implemented from scratch wouldn't it? I don't think nxt has that functionality built in.
I see the way nxt works now as a feature really.
What I'd like to see added is this. Two step authentication would be great.
The two field solution for passwords sounds cool. When I think about it that way however, it becomes clear that it's kind of illusionary security. If one needs to simply enter account then passphrase, You can think of the Tab key to flip text fields as just another keystroke, and one that is guaranteed. So from a brute forcing perspective, it's possibly less secure than the existing system.

Topic: [NEM] NEM -New Economy Movement - No Envy Movement - Updates+Discussion thread - page 460. (Read 661525 times)