Topic: New Drama from BitcoinASIC - page 3. (Read 21907 times)

Or he'll just wait while the price of BTC rises, refund at USD equivilent (no, Tom never said the conversion is when the refund was requested, that's a pipe dream),   then if the rally holds up for another month or two, he can "refund" all the BTC, and still profit make 200% off your money.  Since most people accept this USD / conversion nonsense (even though Tom never actually converted the BTC!), I really don't see why he wouldn't do that, then maybe apologize for taking so long due to some familly issues or something..\

He could buy himself a nice house with the profits, and still avoid being seen as a scammer by the community.  Can't really blame him, since he's effectively been given permission to do just that. 

this entire mess is a cluster fuck. I dont see Tom doing anything on his own merit (regarding refund), he's gonna sit tight and patiently wait for this mess to go away. Untill  he's served legal papers or a fist sandwich -i just dont see him doing anything... again, we need to take action against him to force his hand. i'm telling you, he just gonna wait this one out... perhaps a CL ad's for someone that is local to his area???

In this case, then we only need one person who resides in the state of New York who ordered from Tom and paid with Bitcoin. If sales tax wasn't included, he's in trouble. If sales tax was included, and he didn't pay the state of New York what he collected, he's in trouble.

Come to think of it, for the type and size of business he was operating, the business should be registered with the state of New York to give him a tax number. Without a tax number, how and why did the CC companies collect, then deposited, funds into his bank account? Would they not have done due diligence prior to setting up an account? I'm not sure what the proper terminology would be, but I can't envision a CC company processing a single payment from a resident of NY for a product sold in NY that doesn't have sales tax applied.

Yes a published reimbursement plan for BTC users would go a long way.

So that's about 9 BTC per day? Honestly, at this point I don't really care WHEN I get my refund... If Tom would (re)express intent to refund and show schedule to refund via mining proceeds - and subsequently begin executing upon said schedule, that will work for me. I think a LOT of vitriol here will dissipate if even a FEW Bitcoins start flowing back to BTCFPGA/bitcoinASIC customers.

By the way if he is one of the people that ordered more than 30 Avalon of batch #1, then I'm willing to settle my outstanding BTC refund with Tom by accepting the equivalent in Avalon units...

I think sales tax only applies to people who live in NY, since that is where the business is located.

What about Tax evasion? We don't know, can't prove it, but it seems plausible - was BTCFPGA web cart adding the appropriate State sales tax?

Anyone running a retail business and not charging sales tax is likely not filing their income tax return accurately either...

Absolutely! I would guess he would pre-order from both of those vendors, especially BFL being domestic, and BFL is likely the most responsible (in bes place) to aid in an investigation.

What else would you expect from a: "Bitcoin Entrapenuer and early adopter"
http://www.gplusdata.com/profile/7082417778531020969/thomas-van-riper

Interesting! Very interesting! Very, very interesting! What are the chances that he currently has a mining rig(s) on order at either BFL or Avalon? He would have had to supply a mailing address at time of ordering. I'm not advocating that either entity relay said info publicly, but I'm sure there's something they could do when the time comes to aid in an investigation if such were the case.

Don't doubt it - anyone holding loads of BTC are in good position to order a MiniRig at $30K and hash their pants off.

... with a happy ending?

So he's trying to earn those BTC to repay by mining day by day?

Maybe he should have paid down for an Avalon or 10 to speed up the process

Why are you always so angry?   Relax a little, drink some nice tea, light some candles, have a hot bath, get a slow sensual massage.

From what's been posted, he's user 111 on BTCGuild. He's mining there at 60GH/s right now.
https://www.btcguild.com/halloffame.php

Please stop your rambling.... blah blah... The poster you quoted made a good point and you didnt counter any of that. He clearly explained to you between fraud and business going bad. You're one of those who still thinks that Tom has no intention to scam (and you kept going on and on)

We all know your family member is a lawyer/paralegal. You're in AU, and this is US. Just stop all these "smart-ass" comment about your experiences with business and laws.... blah blah.

In my experience, small businesses and individuals are often curiously reluctant to seek insolvency protection until judgements against them are piling up and ignoring financial disaster in the hope it will either go away or "something will come up" is pretty common.

We have no idea what Tom actually owes.  If there are "investors" they may even be secured creditors depending on how their financial contribution was structured.  Also, deeds of arrangement with creditors tend not to work so well when there are a large amount of creditors or when there would be difficulty in treating a class of creditors equally.

Phin, if this is a criminal matter then investigators have access to DMV and other asset records.  Plenty of people manage to avoid creditors without living as vagrant lifestyle as though they're trying to stay one step ahead of law enforcement.  It's certainly possible that Tom and his family are moving around from one cheap hotel to another and town to town, but there's no reason to believe that it's likely.  NY's a bigger city than Sydney and it would still be relatively easy to "disappear" here even if you'd committed the kind of crime which made accessing your bank accounts or using your ID dangerous.

Law enforcement can obviously seek the disgorgement of all sorts of information which isn't going to be available to creditors.

Oh absolutely! If his customers pursue to the fullest extent, it's definitely going to land in mail fraud territory too.

Two more thoughts.

What are the chances that Tom's still mining, and if he is, is he doing such via a pool. And if that's the case, can his IP be traced?

Also, and somebody else would have to look into this aspect, Tom Van Riper not only collect money for mining units, but also extra to handle S/H. Is there anyway to get the Postal General involve?

I can't phantom a hungry family of six on the lamb with a Bitcoin mining rig in tow.

If your business is going bad, you communicate this to your business partners and customers. You keep them updated about what's going on and maybe you declare chapter 11 or whatever you do in this case.

But if you hide and run, I would consider it to be fraud.