Topic: NEW info. Everyone is lying about ther ASIC project (Read 26643 times)
very unlikely outcome from BFL
totally cool dude
Not cool, dude.
I could understand if they tried to base it on the exchange rate cause they have to pay the chip manufacturers. But you're right, I can't see any reason you'd raise your product price in the middle of the pre-purchase phase just cause that's what competitor sold at and 'you can' to exploit the market, especially since BTC has been climbing since the beginning of the year (except for this little hitch fluctuation this week) if anything you'd sell for same BTC and still be profiting more.
Granted, they could actually have products being worked on, but as mentioned, they could have ran over their estimated salary budget and now are compensating by jacking up the price (read: pyramid scheme) even if it's not a pyramid scheme to run off with, they're using the new members to pay for their newly ordered hardware PLUS compensating for the earlier preorders costing more effort to debug. I would imagine that the rise in BTC, STILL, would have compensated though.
Granted, they could actually have products being worked on, but as mentioned, they could have ran over their estimated salary budget and now are compensating by jacking up the price (read: pyramid scheme) even if it's not a pyramid scheme to run off with, they're using the new members to pay for their newly ordered hardware PLUS compensating for the earlier preorders costing more effort to debug. I would imagine that the rise in BTC, STILL, would have compensated though.
Since BFL is not delivering, Avalon seems to have a monopoly in the consumer ASIC market, and the lucky receivers of their second batch are making far too much bitcoin in a short period, effectively giving them too much power in the bitcoin economy. There should have been more ASICS, or none at all... The current situation is not good IMO.
It would be helpful if the mining algorithm could be modified to minimize the impact of processor type. Supposedly litecoin was designed in address this. It might not be feasible for bitcoin to change that much at this point, but it's possible that Satoshi considered this early on and isn't concerned with the implications. Only if we see the network hash rate really spike, and make the difficulty jump with it, will we know the impact on the network as a whole. Smaller miners, like myself, might just bail if the block mining expectancy jumps by years.
I was a smaller GPU miner myself, however the current difficulty combined with the electricity prices here in the Netherlands, make mining unprofitable with a bitcoin below approx. $180. If BFL would deliver a 5GH/s box for $250, that would only consume some 5W power, mining would be profitable again for people not willing to spend a fortune on hardware. However, I don't think BFL will ever deliver...
I think they will ship now. Just check out recent BTC prices. The insiders sold almost all of their BTC holdings today (one day quick chrash). And guess what? These insiders are working with BFL. No? Lets wait another two weeks. I'm pretty sure they will deliver these ASICs with current BTC prices maybe a little lower.
7 billion people, silent BTC revolution, but just two companies producing ASICs. Why?
I think at this point the delay before anyone STARTING now would be too long for people to trust to invest in, most of the BTC/inflow of cash is already diluted into these companies. I mean, I'd do research, and I know a little about chips, but don't work in the field, and nobody's going to really trust anyone else taking their BTC for development when they'd be 'so far behind'... (even though they may still beat some of the asic companies! ;P)
Well imagine the following.
You said you know a little about chips. However, you decide to build an ASIC, and you figure something in your head, register a company, domain, website, etc.
And you start collecting money, based on an idea. And lots of it.
But when you get the money, you start to want more. And you increase the price of something that no one has actually ever seen. No one knows if it exists.
And call me Nostradamus, but I predict that they will not ship by next week. In fact I think they won't ship at all!
You can only imagine how much time would it take for these jokers to write the technical documentation.
Let's say there is some really small chance that they will ship. What if it breaks?
It took them months to create, then it will take them several more months to "repair".
I bet they did not think of that either.
7 billion people, silent BTC revolution, but just two companies producing ASICs. Why?
I think at this point the delay before anyone STARTING now would be too long for people to trust to invest in, most of the BTC/inflow of cash is already diluted into these companies. I mean, I'd do research, and I know a little about chips, but don't work in the field, and nobody's going to really trust anyone else taking their BTC for development when they'd be 'so far behind'... (even though they may still beat some of the asic companies! ;P)
Since BFL is not delivering, Avalon seems to have a monopoly in the consumer ASIC market, and the lucky receivers of their second batch are making far too much bitcoin in a short period, effectively giving them too much power in the bitcoin economy. There should have been more ASICS, or none at all... The current situation is not good IMO.
It would be helpful if the mining algorithm could be modified to minimize the impact of processor type. Supposedly litecoin was designed in address this. It might not be feasible for bitcoin to change that much at this point, but it's possible that Satoshi considered this early on and isn't concerned with the implications. Only if we see the network hash rate really spike, and make the difficulty jump with it, will we know the impact on the network as a whole. Smaller miners, like myself, might just bail if the block mining expectancy jumps by years.
Since BFL is not delivering, Avalon seems to have a monopoly in the consumer ASIC market, and the lucky receivers of their second batch are making far too much bitcoin in a short period, effectively giving them too much power in the bitcoin economy. There should have been more ASICS, or none at all... The current situation is not good IMO.
If a big semiconductor company, or at least a semiconductor company lead by specialists, who had previously developped some system was making those ASIC miners they would be selling very cheap, very fast. Why? Demand, and BTC price stabilizing somewhere in the 5 - 15$ range.
However, BFL never had a concept before, never had a layout before, never had experience before. What they did was buying a domain, creating a stylish website and advertising on google. The rest is history.
His point was that it seems unprofessional and maybe even a rush job. But it works for them, it works well. Should it be changed?
Yes I have always sad that if something works well it shouldn't be changed, so that maybe one down but it still remains a big list 
Yes
each product "available" is less than $5k. In the USA, over $5k means it can be taken up in civil court, not small claims. Small claims court means footwork for the claiment in the jusidiction of the company. I bet they refund the $30k to the folks who paid for the big rig to avoid a real hassle. Then the people who win judgements plus interest still have to collect the money themselves and I bet every identifiable person in BFL claims to not own the company or claims to have just been acting as a "consultant".
Because of that I'd advise people, if they decide to buy these "products" to pay with a credit card (not debit card). Because of the chargeback option.
Your bank will never deny the chargeback and they will back you up in 99% of the cases, especially if you've waited for months and they give you lousy excuses.
I thought the same thing, so I went through the BFL purchase process just to see what they offer for payment options. Guess what... Bitcoin, Paypal, and wire transfer only! For a company making even thousands, the overhead of supporting credit cards is nominal. So why not? Prevent chargebacks is the best thing I could think of. I laughed and closed my browser.
We'll find out soon enough though, since they say they are shipping in a "week".
Since BFL is not delivering, Avalon seems to have a monopoly in the consumer ASIC market, and the lucky receivers of their second batch are making far too much bitcoin in a short period, effectively giving them too much power in the bitcoin economy. There should have been more ASICS, or none at all... The current situation is not good IMO.
7 billion people, silent BTC revolution, but just two companies producing ASICs. Why?
The simplest scam in the world is to offer either something that does not exist or that makes money without doing much of anything, and BFLs products cover both quite well.
exactly my first impression, I can't believe people don't see right through this..I mean, if I could build a small device that makes free money, the very last thing I'd do is sell it..
As a retired firmware developer, I can say that a project such as this one by BFL is perfectly normal. We use to have a standing rule: Estimate your development time and then double it. The project leader would accept the your times and then double them again. The final boss would then double the leaders time. BFL, obviously, doesn't have enough depth in its management to get everything doubled enough to suit its customers.
OK then. I agree to some point. However, they could have outsourced the firmware to another company, while they're working on the hardware.
I think they relied solely on other people's money with no self involvement.
Even banks request a person to invest 10% of the amount if a credit is taken.
Otherwise how could you prove that you're capable of doing what you're doing?
They took 28 million dollars - more than enough to manufacture everything on time.
They're just, greedy, lazy and stupid.
As I said - money are spent on bullshit. A videocard gpu costs 15$ off the assembly line.
An Asic chip could not be more than that. All the effort and materials used could add up to... say 300$ for the 50GHs TOPS.
And they are pre-"selling it" for 2499.
It's a Scam with a capital S. It means that they did not buy equipment with the money, and they are trying to keep as much as possible for them and manufacture the hardware and software by themselves. Which obviously is impossible.
As a retired firmware developer, I can say that a project such as this one by BFL is perfectly normal. We use to have a standing rule: Estimate your development time and then double it. The project leader would accept the your times and then double them again. The final boss would then double the leaders time. BFL, obviously, doesn't have enough depth in its management to get everything doubled enough to suit its customers.
Did you offer your product online for full payment in advance before you even had a prototype? Asside from that aspect of their business model I agree...being really late is really right on schedule for this sort of product but taking payment for things that don't exist is very fishy.
The simplest scam in the world is to offer either something that does not exist or that makes money without doing much of anything, and BFLs products cover both quite well.
As a retired firmware developer, I can say that a project such as this one by BFL is perfectly normal. We use to have a standing rule: Estimate your development time and then double it. The project leader would accept the your times and then double them again. The final boss would then double the leaders time. BFL, obviously, doesn't have enough depth in its management to get everything doubled enough to suit its customers.
each product "available" is less than $5k. In the USA, over $5k means it can be taken up in civil court, not small claims. Small claims court means footwork for the claiment in the jusidiction of the company. I bet they refund the $30k to the folks who paid for the big rig to avoid a real hassle. Then the people who win judgements plus interest still have to collect the money themselves and I bet every identifiable person in BFL claims to not own the company or claims to have just been acting as a "consultant".
Because of that I'd advise people, if they decide to buy these "products" to pay with a credit card (not debit card). Because of the chargeback option.
Your bank will never deny the chargeback and they will back you up in 99% of the cases, especially if you've waited for months and they give you lousy excuses.
Jump to: