Topic: No petrol/diesel car sales by 2035/ Reality or dream? - page 4. (Read 3566 times)

That's right, I've also seen in my city area there have started to be private and public vehicles based on using electric power, but for electric-powered cars have never seen for the public, but only certain people have it and only private ownership for electric cars, but for two-wheeled vehicles there are already  using it for the public.

But at this time electric-powered vehicles are still rarely seen, perhaps because the price is still expensive and difficult to reach among the general public but however electric-powered vehicles must have a high selling price that is difficult to cover by the general public, because with today's vehicles that still use gasoline, there are still many people who cannot afford to own, so this possibility will be on the minds of many people.

Here in my country electric vehicles either public transport or private already started rolling out few years ago and the government even has plans to fully modernize public transport into an eco-friendly platforms but public transport groups wants an extension to further evaluate the feasibility study regarding the modernization.

Sincerely, I do not know the side of which one you are but I understand that you are driving reasonable points. Some of your narration seems to support either of them but let me say that both have to be changed as they pollute, however, the private and small cars pollute more depending on the combustion engine we are talking about. If they are both petrol engines, then there are more cars and small vehicles on the road than buses and they can move several miles a day as private people have a whole lot of engagement in a day. For them to have hundreds of millions of them plying the road daily means that they are polluting more. The number of commercial and heavy vehicles is far lower than that. But we should think about combustion too. If it is a diesel engine against to a petrol comparison, the diesel engine will pollute more, still, by the number of vehicles, there is no way the private vehicles and the small ones will not populate more than the business and heavy duties due to the huge number them polluting the world daily.

We can make a lot of debates about what kind of transport should turn electric first. Public transport, cars or commercial transport. Car - they create traffic jams, pollute more than public transport. For example public bus capacity is 50-70 persons. Those 50-70 persons are similar to 30-50 cars. 1 bus vs 30 cars. Who pollutes more? On the other hand we have a bus - it circles in the city 24/7. What is its annual mileage? 100k? 200k? While one car makes around 5k kilometers probably per year only in city area. And we have commercial transport - huge volume engines, usually diesel. That runs for tens and tens thousands kilometers. So which one is more dirty, which transport pollutes more and has to be replaced with electric engine ?

I think you are right that it is mandatory to start using electric vehicles on public transportation in order to reduce air pollution. But there are still extraordinary obstacles to this method of use because it still requires sufficient time to get the power to be able to move it, and electrical power is still tied to the use of coal, which clearly also contributes to pollution. On the other hand, avoiding pollution is effective, but continuing to pollute is not. Apart from that, I agree that if there is a change in the use of power generation using solar energy panels, there will be very high efficiency, but the problem is that solar panels are still not optimal in their use because they are very expensive to do, apart from the fact that there is continuous innovation to be able to reduce costs. but I believe that there will indeed be significant changes in reducing air pollution with innovation that continues to be carried out for excellent development.

Everyone saw how activists protest against high co2, pollution, cheer for renewable enegry. How they sit on highways, block traffic and etc. From the success of their activity, depends the reality of EV or reduction of petrol/diesel production. What do you think about that? Is there logic in this? Or they will complain and protests also against EV in future?

now come up the problem where the electricity generated coming from if its from coal then its all the same, hopefully we gonna shift to renewable energy, as an individual we should also strive toward renewable energy ourselves, i've seen plenty of people using solar panel nowaday even the one released by tesla wonder if that sufficient for charging the car because if that does then it'd be awesome basically we pay big upfront but we don't need to sweat about paying for fuel later on.
though what should be of concern is the industry of transporting, it seemed that there's special needs required for electric car to fit in to the transporting industry because this industry also have a role in contributing to the excess CO2 if they could switch to electric vehicle that'd be awesome but we all know our technology isn't really there yet, we might give more battery for these trucks but we all know the charging time would require massive amount also the distance of transporting usually far surpass what a battery capable of.
really hoping that the world would strive towards the betterment of the future where fresh air is abundant and we could avoid climate change.

No doubt you know what you’re saying but it’s not that easy. It’s easier said than done. Don’t forget that the more you earn the more problems you have to solve and such is life. Oh, and do not forget they tax will be taken out from the income too. So consider such factors like other responsibilities because there’s no way someone will save all that money like they don’t have other cheaper needs and wants. I guess the installment payment settle it. As long as that works then truly, it’s feasible for people with a fair salary to gradually pay it off while owning their car.

Maybe it is possible. And this initiative is very good. I think it should be implemented as soon as possible. This is the biggest initiative to reduce the level of CO2 gas. Our public life and climate are threatened due to excess CO2.  And electric cars will be cheaper than oil cars.  I hope the quality will be good too.  The demand for cars will only increase over time.  If the car runs on electricity, the electricity demand will also increase.  This will benefit the government.  Now it is not sure how many countries agree to this.

Firstly, be it reality or dream, for me I will miss these cars. I like shifting gears which are already missing in many Petrol cars and this is not only me but found out that there are many people with same thought.

Now, I belive EVs will help reducing environmental pollution and all but I also read a debate that to manufacture the batteries the environment is getting affected very badly. A huge amount of CO2 is being released. So, if this is the case I doubt if this is even helping apart from car running cost saving.

For me when I read about Ethanol cars, I liked this technology as already e20 fuel is being distributed in India and it does releases less polluted fumes. They also do have a con related to farming where fertilizers used are synthetic and causing harm to the soil and ground water.

In conclusion, stopping the sale of petrol/disel cars used as a personal vehicle or a cab might be possible with any of these alternatives and be it any they will impact the nature in some way. As of now, I think everybody in this World is just trying to innovate a way where less carbon is ommitted from the cars, so there is a chance that this might get extended. And stopping the sale of every vehicles including commercial trucks is only possible with great innnovation which will take some time. Bus are still fine, they are running but not every vehicle.

Let's count a lot?
Let's take, for example, a model like the Volkswagen Id 4. The price of a new car is up to $30,000.
For a family of 2 people, with a total income of $5,000. Tell me, is it difficult for them to save, for example, 30% to buy a car? Plus, many cars are sold with installment payments - a down payment of 10 to 30%, and installments for 12-24 months. As for me, this is a completely acceptable purchase scheme.
Tell me, how much does a car of the same class with an internal combustion engine cost? And how do they buy them? Despite the fact that when we go out into the street, we see a huge number of completely new cars!

      
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Oh the technicals, I need to learn more about them but what you are saying is giving me a little bit of idea on what's the correct one that should be done by the manufacturers themselves.

I think that they're just relying to the demand about EVs and the petrol diesel cars and that's why some manufacturers are transitioning from diesels to EVs because that's what they think is in demand.
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"Turbo Compound Piston Engines. Almost magic tech." is the name of the YouTube video that I watched on the subject. The diagram that I like is at 15:30 in the video. Enjoy...

Also https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/has-anyone-else-tried-this-nakamoto-diesel-fuel-saver-5403404 is where you can learn how to build a very cheap fuel saver for diesel engines. I don't know how it works but it is awesome! The more of them you build the faster you get at it. Given some away as gifts, to neighbors and friends. Build time around 2 hours of easy work, for the first one.

Oh the technicals, I need to learn more about them but what you are saying is giving me a little bit of idea on what's the correct one that should be done by the manufacturers themselves.

I think that they're just relying to the demand about EVs and the petrol diesel cars and that's why some manufacturers are transitioning from diesels to EVs because that's what they think is in demand.

I don’t think that someone with $3,000 monthly salary can easily afford a car (BTW, we are talking of an electric car). The average salary in the EU for example is just around 2 times (from what I researched) of what you mentioned, but does everyone own cars? And we need to look at what type of cars they have too. You said it takes about 5-10 years, right? And what if people could just afford something cheap but now the law is saying that in just about 11 years, you can’t use fuel-powered cars, that is a short time because people have other responsibilities and they can just start saving to buy a car when someone of them even with that average money are only able to afford what they need. 

Not mentality, but a real low standard of living. These are slightly different concepts.
And I'm not talking about rich countries, I'm talking about countries where a significant portion has an adequate income. To this I include approximately $3,000 in income per month for an adult member of the senya. Are these RICH people? These are people with NORMAL income, let's say middle class. And they can easily afford to buy a new car, for example, once every 5-10 years. This is fine. How normal it is to be able to buy your own apartment/house. We must evaluate opportunities not by the poorest example, but by average, good income. That is why I said - that in poor countries, with poor populations, innovations come very late

One good news for all the EV fans is that the price of Lithium Carbonate has collapsed. By the end of 2022, price per ton was around ¥600,000 but now it has declined to ¥96,500. More and more lithium mines are coming online and this will ensure stable prices for the next few years. However I am still concerned at the slow progress in new innovations in battery technology. Most of the EVs have a range of 200-400 km with a single charge and this is a major drawback for them over gasoline or diesel driven vehicles.

Is it from a poor people mentality? Be it as it may, how many percent of the world is rich? I know you may want to say the news/post isn’t about the world at large but Europe, but then, are all the countries in Europe rich? No. There are still countries that are struggling, there are still people who are trying so hard to eat daily. I’m not saying it isn’t possible that everyone will use electric cars, of course we’ll get there. But for that to happen by 2045? 11 years from now? that’s not something I think will happen.

There is room for improvement with internal combustion and E Vs yet. Car companies get turbo charging wrong. Old airplanes did it right with the turbo adding momentum to the flywheel instead of sending extra air pressure through the engine. Energy going to the flywheel or a generator (for hybrids, to charge a battery pack) from the turbo can be more efficient because the compression ratio of the engine can be the same as a NA engine, which is higher. Other areas for improvement would be converting waste heat into electricity or motive force. We've come this far with internal combustion engines. Why throw away all that effort?

Anyways, people are missing out on a true breakthrough for diesel engines. I estimate it would save the world over a hundred trillion dollars in fuel costs per year! I'm here if anyone needs help on building the device? Just ask nicely...      

Sorry to cut into your dialog, but the problem is that you are making an assessment from a "poor people" perspective. And for countries with low living standards and incomes of citizens - progress always comes with a huge delay, and they should not be taken into account when introducing new technologies. It sounds a bit frustrating, but that's the reality. We should look at developed countries, where people do not save up all their lives for a car, where there is a convenient and developed infrastructure. And it simply makes no sense to make a forecast for the consumption of high-tech products in frankly backward regions.

Haha. I do not see the difference between 90% and 100%. And even if you bring it down to 80% or 70%, it still may be unrealistic. Many people can’t even afford these normal petrol powered cars, and let’s say they save for years to get one and then you tell them to rather buy electric cars? Where will they get the complete money from? Unless the government wants to give a good discount (though some people will still not buy it because of maintenance). Like you said, battery changing will be expensive because unlike petrol powered cars, the battery of an electric car is like the soul of the car. Who even knows how many battery that is used by an electric car.