No petrol/diesel car sales by 2035/ Reality or dream? - page 6.

DrBeer

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Quote from: 0t3p0t on December 20, 2023, 08:27:29 AM

For me this will surely be implemented by first world countries like EU because adoption in electric vehicles even reached the third world countries like mine. The demand of electric vehicles here in my country is quiet increasing and the government also started to adopt this kind of technology to modernize the aging jeepneys. Though EV still is in the early stage of development and business but in the future it will revolutionize transportation all over the world.

It goes without saying - progressive ideas are first implemented by the most progressive and most developed countries. At least for the reason that their technological level allows to realize it. Then these solutions will be replicated in countries less progressive and less ready to change, through adapted solutions. But this process may take a long time, I assume that for some countries, the penetration of electric cars may take tens of years....

idarasun

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Quote from: boyptc on February 17, 2023, 06:31:31 AM

Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.

But the actual cost of making one is going to create another shortage. Its battery will be the next problem that shall be made when most cars are already EVs.

At first I thought electric vehicles would not have such a negative impact. However, after you explained a little about battery problems, I think battery problems such as durability and environmental impacts in production also need to be considered. Is there a best way or solution to this problem?

ancafe

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Quote from: Falconer on December 19, 2023, 11:25:03 PM

Industrial development is indeed expected, but in my opinion this is also motivated by the idea of changing society's tendency to be less dependent on the use of oil (gasoline or diesel). The political and economic situation between western and Arab countries is increasingly heated and oil prices are never stable, so this idea may be part of the government's plan to no longer depend on its oil supply countries.

I don't know, I didn't think much about it, but maybe what I said was one of the reasons behind the idea. Additionally, the government will probably tell us indirectly that bitcoin mining saves more energy than the amount of electricity used by cars.

Some developed countries will continue to evolve because expecting oil imports from other countries is quite unstable for the country's economic process, especially if the oil producing country is experiencing high geopolitics so that the export process will be disrupted and can cause chaos. Low costs usually have an impact on the other side and whether electric cars can be a solution to the problem of oil or diesel fueled cars requires study because sometimes what is conveyed in the media does not happen as in reality.

Another fact is that bitcoin mining is much more energy efficient and does not cause global warming compared to the more energy that would be used in electric cars, whether renewable energy or not. However, the government is actually trying to pose a threat to bitcoin mining, which is actually much more environmentally friendly.

stompix

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Blackjack.fun

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 20, 2023, 08:43:54 AM

The irony is that biggest jump in EV adoption is happening in some of the developing countries such as India and China, where EVs are competitively priced against the gasoline and diesel run vehicles. In the developed nations, EVs are a lot more costlier and therefore the adoption is much slower.

What a load of crap:
https://www.autocarpro.in/analysis-sales/ev-sales-soar-to-139000-units-in-october-and-123-million-in-first-10-months-of-2023-117640

Quote

While electric two-wheelers (691,536 units) account for 56 % of the total EV sales in the January-October 2023 period, three-wheelers (471,153 units) have a 38.17% share of the India EV pie. A total of 67,151 electric cars and SUVs and also vans were also sold, which gives them a 5.44% share, with commercial vehicles comprising goods carriers and buses (1,579 units) getting a 0.12% share (see EV segment-wise retail sales data table above).

Norway alone beats India in terms of electric car registrations:
https://www.electromaps.com/en/blog/electric-car-sales-third-quarter-2023-europe

Quote

Of the 95,499 cars registered in the first nine months of 2023, 83,617 were electric or plug-in hybrids, representing 90.4% of the Norwegian market.

Also, in the normal world, a scooter is not a car!

Sithara007

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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform

Quote from: 0t3p0t on December 20, 2023, 08:27:29 AM

For me this will surely be implemented by first world countries like EU because adoption in electric vehicles even reached the third world countries like mine. The demand of electric vehicles here in my country is quiet increasing and the government also started to adopt this kind of technology to modernize the aging jeepneys. Though EV still is in the early stage of development and business but in the future it will revolutionize transportation all over the world.

The irony is that biggest jump in EV adoption is happening in some of the developing countries such as India and China, where EVs are competitively priced against the gasoline and diesel run vehicles. In the developed nations, EVs are a lot more costlier and therefore the adoption is much slower. And one additional factor that drives EV adoption is the fact that gasoline/diesel prices are much higher in countries such as India when compared to the United States. A lot of people prefer EVs as a countermeasure against rising fuel prices.

0t3p0t

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Peace be with you!

For me this will surely be implemented by first world countries like EU because adoption in electric vehicles even reached the third world countries like mine. The demand of electric vehicles here in my country is quiet increasing and the government also started to adopt this kind of technology to modernize the aging jeepneys. Though EV still is in the early stage of development and business but in the future it will revolutionize transportation all over the world.

DrBeer

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Quote from: bakasabo on December 20, 2023, 03:52:20 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on December 19, 2023, 04:45:32 PM

Electric motors have come a long way since the advent of streetcars, subways and trolleybuses (current supply through carrier channels), and today have reached a high level of quality, production and reliability. This means that today it is possible to use them instead of internal combustion engines.

Not quite sure if today is the proper word to use, but in nearest future sounds more realistic. We have discussed here several points, why buyer would choose petrol/diesel car over EV. People are unsure of battery resource, undeveloped (still in some regions and cities) charging point network and so on. Why it is gonna take 20+ years to go to EV? Because generation must update. While we have majority of those who says "back in my days", or "me and my old VW Passat" kind of stories, we wont be having much EV. An example, 20-30 years ago kids were spending most of time outside, now they are in gadgets. In 20+ years they will be those who choose to swipe, press button, order online, use app and etc (I'm speaking figuratively), over taking greasy fuel pistol in hand.

Just today - electric cars are actively bought by motorists, as the first cars, as well as a replacement for previous ones with internal combustion engine.
And there are problems in this segment:
- For example, countries with a low standard of living and infrastructure development. The internal combustion engine will be in demand there for many decades to come. It is cheap, primitive, easier to repair/replace. There are no special problems with fuel. Plus you can always get it in jerry cans

)
- battery capacity and charging time. This is a solution in the near future.
- And yes I agree - the mentality of consumers must change globally, and this is a matter of at least 1-2 generations.

bakasabo

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Quote from: DrBeer on December 19, 2023, 04:45:32 PM

Electric motors have come a long way since the advent of streetcars, subways and trolleybuses (current supply through carrier channels), and today have reached a high level of quality, production and reliability. This means that today it is possible to use them instead of internal combustion engines.

Not quite sure if today is the proper word to use, but in nearest future sounds more realistic. We have discussed here several points, why buyer would choose petrol/diesel car over EV. People are unsure of battery resource, undeveloped (still in some regions and cities) charging point network and so on. Why it is gonna take 20+ years to go to EV? Because generation must update. While we have majority of those who says "back in my days", or "me and my old VW Passat" kind of stories, we wont be having much EV. An example, 20-30 years ago kids were spending most of time outside, now they are in gadgets. In 20+ years they will be those who choose to swipe, press button, order online, use app and etc (I'm speaking figuratively), over taking greasy fuel pistol in hand.

Falconer

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Quote from: ancafe on December 19, 2023, 10:26:08 PM

Quote from: DrBeer on December 19, 2023, 03:11:56 AM

-snip-

There is some truth to that because we live amidst a tendency among people who want to live more practically and easily, so they don't really care about costs. The automotive industry continues to make strides in creating a new generation of environmentally friendly cars and we are even at a state of technological sophistication where people no longer need to drive because cars use sensor commands to run them. Even though the market is not big and not yet common, I am sure we will see the development of the automotive industry continue to develop with new ideas offered by its products.

In the next five or ten years we will see how the process of technological development in the automotive sector will continue to develop. When we return to this post there will probably be many other debates that we will discuss with each other. Losses and threats will continue to exist in any sector, including the process of developing electric cars, because there are levels of weaknesses and strengths that place them in certain problems.

Industrial development is indeed expected, but in my opinion this is also motivated by the idea of changing society's tendency to be less dependent on the use of oil (gasoline or diesel). The political and economic situation between western and Arab countries is increasingly heated and oil prices are never stable, so this idea may be part of the government's plan to no longer depend on its oil supply countries.

I don't know, I didn't think much about it, but maybe what I said was one of the reasons behind the idea. Additionally, the government will probably tell us indirectly that bitcoin mining saves more energy than the amount of electricity used by cars.

ancafe

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Quote from: DrBeer on December 19, 2023, 03:11:56 AM

Virtually any manufacturing leaves a "non environmentally friendly footprint". Including batteries, which I agree with. But I would add - today's batteries. But here progress and the situation does not stand still, and today there is active work on the search for new materials with new properties for the development of new generation batteries with better characteristics, including those that do not use the above-mentioned chemical elements. The second nuance - it is difficult to compare the harm and threat from global warming caused by the huge amount of emissions from internal combustion engines with the harm from the extraction and use of these metals. It is necessary to understand one thing - we live at the beginning of the era of electric energy in the automotive industry. I am sure that in 5-10 years, if we come back to this topic here, we will be very interested in discussing the changes in this short period of time

.

There is some truth to that because we live amidst a tendency among people who want to live more practically and easily, so they don't really care about costs. The automotive industry continues to make strides in creating a new generation of environmentally friendly cars and we are even at a state of technological sophistication where people no longer need to drive because cars use sensor commands to run them. Even though the market is not big and not yet common, I am sure we will see the development of the automotive industry continue to develop with new ideas offered by its products.

In the next five or ten years we will see how the process of technological development in the automotive sector will continue to develop. When we return to this post there will probably be many other debates that we will discuss with each other. Losses and threats will continue to exist in any sector, including the process of developing electric cars, because there are levels of weaknesses and strengths that place them in certain problems.

DrBeer

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Quote from: bakasabo on December 19, 2023, 05:22:29 AM

First steam engines were introduced somewhere in 16th century, first petrol engine in end of 19th century if we talk about car engines, but first electric motor was introduced in 18th century. The progress goes faster each year, so DrBeer could be correct, that in 10 years we will be smiling when we gonna read our replies here. Electric engines appeared more or less at the same age we got petrol engines. However they were low power and battery did not last long. However, is it already clear what resource modern electric engine has? We all hear about horse power, 0-100 acceleration and etc. What about the engine in general? Can it run for 200-500 thousands kilometers without major break?

Thanks for the encouragement

Yes, electric motors and even electric cars have been around for a long time. But they appeared "in the wrong place and at the wrong time". At that time, the development of technology, chemistry, and other areas of science and economics did not allow the electric car to be used effectively. The internal combustion engine as a device is not very complex, and the production and accumulation of fuel is a rather primitive process, which was already well practiced in the 19th and 20th centuries.
Nowadays the technologies and element base are quite different, both for electricity generation, its transmission and accumulation (batteries, super capacitors), as well as the quality and efficiency of electric motors. Electric motors have come a long way since the advent of streetcars, subways and trolleybuses (current supply through carrier channels), and today have reached a high level of quality, production and reliability. This means that today it is possible to use them instead of internal combustion engines.

Argoo

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Quote from: Hamphser on December 17, 2023, 12:12:49 PM

Quote from: STT on December 16, 2023, 06:25:48 PM

Battery technology will continue to develop, in over a decade the gains will be quite substantial especially if you consider the potential market unfolding. The whole growth sector is an attractive prospect to develop for.
The reality however will be even if new cars are not to be petrol or diesel we will still just reuse the older vehicles until decades have passed, the signal this will occur is possibly from trucks already starting to do this. Its far better to buy an older second hand truck then try to make the newer ones work perfectly for a higher cost.
Eventually the technology will overwhelm the older designs but I think we are talking decades for all sizes of motors from motorcycles to giant truck and trains, it is a long term transitional movement.

Nothing could be perfect in an instant on which development and further enhancement would really be definitely along the way on which it would really be just that normal that there would really be flaws about with this EV trend on which i dont see for it to be a bad thing if ever we do have that switch up but just like on what most people been saying on here is that i do really believe on the same thing on which
there would really be disadvantages too. When it comes to efficiency and no emission thing then hands down to that. People would really be that too mindful about when it comes to maintainance thing
on which it wont really come cheap for sure.

This is why i dont really believe that in 10+ years time on which these ICE cars would really that cease to exist. Why wont really be just saying that better have both with these things?
Fir sure petrol companies wont really be letting these things to happen.

The reality is that if humanity wants to survive the drastic ongoing climate change, then gasoline and diesel engines must be abandoned decisively and quickly. This must happen despite economic problems and losses. If this is not done, then there will be even more losses in the future. In some regions the planet will become unsuitable for human habitation. Natural disasters will intensify throughout the planet, which we can already observe. Therefore, where carbon dioxide emissions occur, the fight must be tough and uncompromising. For this reason, old cars with petrol and diesel engines should be disposed of as quickly as possible.

Latviand

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That's a difficult to follow timeframe because gentrification is expensive, it will replace thousands of industries that have been in operation for 100+ years so the change will definitely meet some resistance from those old industries that are going to be affected. I mean look at the whaling industry, when the demand for whale oil plummeted because of electricity, a lot of industry was affected then it's going to be the same for the current automotive industry. I wouldn't say that it's a dream though because progress is going to happen no matter what and I just believe that it's not going to be in the year 2035 that we're going to see that from ever happening.

Manny@11111

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It is achievable. This is called Planning, they have considered lots of factors and put in motions processes, structures and legislations to achieving this come 2035. Future of vehicles is obviously electrical as it's advantages in this climatic change era is enormous and prudent.

bakasabo

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First steam engines were introduced somewhere in 16th century, first petrol engine in end of 19th century if we talk about car engines, but first electric motor was introduced in 18th century. The progress goes faster each year, so DrBeer could be correct, that in 10 years we will be smiling when we gonna read our replies here. Electric engines appeared more or less at the same age we got petrol engines. However they were low power and battery did not last long. However, is it already clear what resource modern electric engine has? We all hear about horse power, 0-100 acceleration and etc. What about the engine in general? Can it run for 200-500 thousands kilometers without major break?

DrBeer

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Quote from: ancafe on December 18, 2023, 10:38:50 PM

Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Many governments are moving to push hard to reduce sales of diesel and petrol cars, the European Parliament has officially approved a law banning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in the EU from 2035

I don't know how things are going in your country regarding sales of fuel cars, both diesel and petrol. But how surprised you will be when you see that most people in my country are competing to buy cars with diesel fuel, especially among young people.

Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

Electric cars are also not yet a solution to the pollution caused by diesel or petrol cars. Electric cars can also cause environmental pollution because the battery manufactur buking process uses nickel, lithium and cobalt. So far both models are still considering their impact on the environment, but when it comes to efficiency perhaps electric cars will be far superior. Electric cars are also sold are still quite expensive and in my opinion the costs will be much more economical than normal cars.

Virtually any manufacturing leaves a "non environmentally friendly footprint". Including batteries, which I agree with. But I would add - today's batteries. But here progress and the situation does not stand still, and today there is active work on the search for new materials with new properties for the development of new generation batteries with better characteristics, including those that do not use the above-mentioned chemical elements. The second nuance - it is difficult to compare the harm and threat from global warming caused by the huge amount of emissions from internal combustion engines with the harm from the extraction and use of these metals. It is necessary to understand one thing - we live at the beginning of the era of electric energy in the automotive industry. I am sure that in 5-10 years, if we come back to this topic here, we will be very interested in discussing the changes in this short period of time

.

ancafe

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Many governments are moving to push hard to reduce sales of diesel and petrol cars, the European Parliament has officially approved a law banning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in the EU from 2035

I don't know how things are going in your country regarding sales of fuel cars, both diesel and petrol. But how surprised you will be when you see that most people in my country are competing to buy cars with diesel fuel, especially among young people.

Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

Electric cars are also not yet a solution to the pollution caused by diesel or petrol cars. Electric cars can also cause environmental pollution because the battery manufactur buking process uses nickel, lithium and cobalt. So far both models are still considering their impact on the environment, but when it comes to efficiency perhaps electric cars will be far superior. Electric cars are also sold are still quite expensive and in my opinion the costs will be much more economical than normal cars.

Fortify

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Quote from: hugeblack on February 17, 2023, 06:13:56 AM

Many governments are moving to push hard to reduce sales of diesel and petrol cars, the European Parliament has officially approved a law banning the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in the EU from 2035

Quote

The landmark law will require carmakers to cut down CO2 emissions by 100 percent.
The 100 percent cut in CO2 emissions from new cars sold would make it impossible to sell petrol or diesel-powered cars in the 27-country bloc. The law that comes into effect in phases that will require a 55 percent cut in CO2 emissions for new cars starting 2030, which is a much higher target in comparison to the current 37.5 percent.

Source ---> https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/auto/electric-cars/no-petrol/diesel-car-sales-by-2035-european-parliament-approves-ban/articleshow/97939363.cms

Some reports indicate that the costs of running an electric car are actually lower than the costs of running a car with an internal combustion engine.
So, will this goal be achieved by the year 2035? Will the cars be more efficient and at a good price compared to current prices, or is it a policy that may take decades?

It's starting to look more and more like wishful thinking, however the original target was set for 2030 which received a lot of backing. There has been a massive surge in uptake of electric cars, but they are still largely out of the price range of average earners. Until we see more trickle through into the second hand market, with cars that still have viable range on them, then it could even take another couple decades before they overtake diesel and petrol cars in being the majority on the road. Bans sound nice and may eventually become reality, but you'll find that governments often take these stances loudly while pushing them back again quietly, much closer to the target date.

DrBeer

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Quote from: WillyAp on December 18, 2023, 07:00:09 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on December 18, 2023, 03:25:20 AM

And one more news on the topic:
The German company e-Revolt offers a service for converting gasoline and diesel cars into electric vehicles. T

A fuel cell is better suited IMHO.
In Brazil there are shops doing that, unfortunately I don't have a link.

Hopefully a brazilian member could confirm that?

Quote from: darkangel11 on December 17, 2023, 01:26:11 PM

You paid $30k for a new car and it's scrap because you're not allowed to fix it. What about large machines and trucks? Most of them are diesel powered. Are we going to stop whole road transport now because they want to reduce emissions?

It'll be exported to a non EU country, then repaired and set to drive again.

This is already a matter of implementation. I will assume that a fuel cell engine, such as the Toyota Murai, is a difficult option for the DIY concept (do it yourself). Although it is possible that Toyota will produce such kits for “modification”. the solution with batteries and electric motors is much simpler, so it will “go to the masses” faster and more widely. And this is another additional “trump card” in the deck of cards for electric vehicles.

Now, if we take it globally, electric cars have 2 problems:
- high-capacity, fast-charging, affordable batteries
- a source of cheap, affordable electricity.

And they are all being resolved... For example, I am very pleased with the news about the Thermonuclear Reactor launched on December 1 in Japan. Yes - experimental, but already a fully implemented solution.

WillyAp

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Looking for guilt best look first into a mirror

Quote from: DrBeer on December 18, 2023, 03:25:20 AM

And one more news on the topic:
The German company e-Revolt offers a service for converting gasoline and diesel cars into electric vehicles. T

A fuel cell is better suited IMHO.
In Brazil there are shops doing that, unfortunately I don't have a link.

Hopefully a brazilian member could confirm that?

Quote from: darkangel11 on December 17, 2023, 01:26:11 PM

You paid $30k for a new car and it's scrap because you're not allowed to fix it. What about large machines and trucks? Most of them are diesel powered. Are we going to stop whole road transport now because they want to reduce emissions?

It'll be exported to a non EU country, then repaired and set to drive again.

Topic: No petrol/diesel car sales by 2035/ Reality or dream? - page 6. (Read 3573 times)