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Topic: [NR 1] Triplemining.com <> BIG jackpot every week <> - page 23. (Read 113618 times)

newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
I would like to get this pool's opinion on something.  There is a discussion between pool hoppers going on that instead of going to a PPS pool when there is nothing to hop that they should move over (at least at times) to those pools with an absurdly long block.  Right now, you should have discovered 4 blocks in the space of this last block, and I bet it would be appreciated if you had hoppers jump in and help you get past this epoch of bad luck.  Opinions?

This is one of those scenarios where I felt a rational pool operator would happily welcome hoppers Cheesy
An extra say 100GH/s could just end the round really quick, although I don't know if the hoppers would find it profitable to do so, since profitability is their primary objective.
donator
Activity: 1654
Merit: 1351
Creator of Litecoin. Cryptocurrency enthusiast.
I would like to get this pool's opinion on something.  There is a discussion between pool hoppers going on that instead of going to a PPS pool when there is nothing to hop that they should move over (at least at times) to those pools with an absurdly long block.  Right now, you should have discovered 4 blocks in the space of this last block, and I bet it would be appreciated if you had hoppers jump in and help you get past this epoch of bad luck.  Opinions?

Why would pool hoppers want to do this? The only reason why they hop is to maximize profit. If they do this, they will make less coins. So why hop in the first place?

What do you suggest ?

Switch to RSMPPS or PPLNS or a hybrid of the two.
member
Activity: 112
Merit: 10
I would like to get this pool's opinion on something.  There is a discussion between pool hoppers going on that instead of going to a PPS pool when there is nothing to hop that they should move over (at least at times) to those pools with an absurdly long block.  Right now, you should have discovered 4 blocks in the space of this last block, and I bet it would be appreciated if you had hoppers jump in and help you get past this epoch of bad luck.  Opinions?

Why would pool hoppers want to do this? The only reason why they hop is to maximize profit. If they do this, they will make less coins. So why hop in the first place?

What do you suggest ?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 102
Why would pool hoppers want to do this? The only reason why they hop is to maximize profit. If they do this, they will make less coins. So why hop in the first place?

Because maximizing profits isn't everything.  It would make hoppers look less like ferengi, and more like a swarm of a lot of hashpower to help solve blocks.  Good PR is worth more than a few btc Smiley

I'm not saying every hopper will do it, but if it is the default behavior in the proxy, then I think most would.  The problem is, right now there is such a disconnect between miners and hoppers, and I think it would be beneficial for us all to realize we are first and foremost members of the bitcoin network with the same goal.  Hopping isn't for everyone, you have to micromanage the software, and constantly make updates, but they are a big force and can be beneficial.

Would you do this even if triplemining is switching to PPLNS or SMPPS after this round? :p

heh, of course not, the point is for hoppers and prop pools to ally with each other instead of fight with each other.
donator
Activity: 1654
Merit: 1351
Creator of Litecoin. Cryptocurrency enthusiast.
Why would pool hoppers want to do this? The only reason why they hop is to maximize profit. If they do this, they will make less coins. So why hop in the first place?

Because maximizing profits isn't everything.  It would make hoppers look less like ferengi, and more like a swarm of a lot of hashpower to help solve blocks.  Good PR is worth more than a few btc Smiley

I'm not saying every hopper will do it, but if it is the default behavior in the proxy, then I think most would.  The problem is, right now there is such a disconnect between miners and hoppers, and I think it would be beneficial for us all to realize we are first and foremost members of the bitcoin network with the same goal.  Hopping isn't for everyone, you have to micromanage the software, and constantly make updates, but they are a big force and can be beneficial.

Would you do this even if triplemining is switching to PPLNS or SMPPS after this round? :p
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 102
Why would pool hoppers want to do this? The only reason why they hop is to maximize profit. If they do this, they will make less coins. So why hop in the first place?

Because maximizing profits isn't everything.  It would make hoppers look less like ferengi, and more like a swarm of a lot of hashpower to help solve blocks.  Good PR is worth more than a few btc Smiley

I'm not saying every hopper will do it, but if it is the default behavior in the proxy, then I think most would.  The problem is, right now there is such a disconnect between miners and hoppers, and I think it would be beneficial for us all to realize we are first and foremost members of the bitcoin network with the same goal.  Hopping isn't for everyone, you have to micromanage the software, and constantly make updates, but they are a big force and can be beneficial.
donator
Activity: 1654
Merit: 1351
Creator of Litecoin. Cryptocurrency enthusiast.
I would like to get this pool's opinion on something.  There is a discussion between pool hoppers going on that instead of going to a PPS pool when there is nothing to hop that they should move over (at least at times) to those pools with an absurdly long block.  Right now, you should have discovered 4 blocks in the space of this last block, and I bet it would be appreciated if you had hoppers jump in and help you get past this epoch of bad luck.  Opinions?

Why would pool hoppers want to do this? The only reason why they hop is to maximize profit. If they do this, they will make less coins. So why hop in the first place?
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 102
I would like to get this pool's opinion on something.  There is a discussion between pool hoppers going on that instead of going to a PPS pool when there is nothing to hop that they should move over (at least at times) to those pools with an absurdly long block.  Right now, you should have discovered 4 blocks in the space of this last block, and I bet it would be appreciated if you had hoppers jump in and help you get past this epoch of bad luck.  Opinions?
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
So we've been plagued with poolhoppers, that abuse our pool.  The only correct action we can take to these abusers, is to change our payment system, in such a way that it becomes less interesting for poolhoppers (and therefore more interesting for fair miners).  We are going to change our pool to a PPLNS pool.

What does this mean:

We will payout for all last N shares submitted, where N is defined as the current difficulty divided by 2.

In other words, when a block is found, we will look at the last 845450 shares, and we will divide the 50 BTC over the people that submitted those shares.  The number 845450 is half of the current difficulty and will be automatically adjusted if the difficulty rises.

- This is more fair for cpu/low power miners: you will have profit from very fast blocks, even if you could not submit a share for that block.
- This is fair for irregular miners: if you only mine at night, you will ofcourse have less chance on finding a block, and only when your pc is actually mining during the finding of a block will you receive BTC's, but you will earn much  more from a block when it falls, so in the end, statistically, you have more profits then with no poolhopping protection.  Note that your income may fluctuate even more...
- This is fair for normal 24/7 miners, as they will get more, as the poolhoppers cannot run away with any BTC's...
- This is not pleasant for poolhoppers: they will get 0 on long blocks, and a block after a long block will not gain any decent profit anymore.


So when are we going to implement this change?

Soon Smiley


Why not a geometric or normalized system? We're already into the 6 million shares and even for some of us who are not habitual hoppers, the cost of operation means that we have to divest some mhash power elsewhere. Not to be given any reward for those shares isn't very fair either.

While at the same deterring hopping is good, at our current pool speed, getting some hoppers with high hashrates in at the beginning every now and then is useful too. With the proposed scheme, no hopper will hop here and over time, it would prolong future rounds especially if new miners are not convinced to join or return after this such long rounds. Maybe when the pool speed gets up into the 300~400GH/s speeds, then we can adjust it to fully PPLNS.

Since tripleming has the unique feature of a jackpot, why not further tweak it by only picking miners who contributed for the last difficulty/3 shares?

Just my 380Mh/s worth of thoughts Cheesy
full member
Activity: 169
Merit: 100
So we've been plagued with poolhoppers, that abuse our pool.  The only correct action we can take to these abusers, is to change our payment system, in such a way that it becomes less interesting for poolhoppers (and therefore more interesting for fair miners).  We are going to change our pool to a PPLNS pool.

What does this mean:

We will payout for all last N shares submitted, where N is defined as the current difficulty divided by 2.

In other words, when a block is found, we will look at the last 845450 shares, and we will divide the 50 BTC over the people that submitted those shares.  The number 845450 is half of the current difficulty and will be automatically adjusted if the difficulty rises.

- This is more fair for cpu/low power miners: you will have profit from very fast blocks, even if you could not submit a share for that block.
- This is fair for irregular miners: if you only mine at night, you will ofcourse have less chance on finding a block, and only when your pc is actually mining during the finding of a block will you receive BTC's, but you will earn much  more from a block when it falls, so in the end, statistically, you have more profits then with no poolhopping protection.  Note that your income may fluctuate even more...
- This is fair for normal 24/7 miners, as they will get more, as the poolhoppers cannot run away with any BTC's...
- This is not pleasant for poolhoppers: they will get 0 on long blocks, and a block after a long block will not gain any decent profit anymore.


So when are we going to implement this change?

Soon Smiley


So I understand the reason for doing this.  But I don't think it will prevent people from leaving the pool on long blocks.  For example my estimated payout on the current block is about half a bitcoin.  I could have made about 1.7 over that same time mining on a large pool.  Now I understand that in the long run your daily payout should average out no matter where you are.  However, like someone said earlier the long run may be too long for some.  For example I had to switch a card to a different pool because I cannot afford to go 3.5 days with no payback.  With the new system the fallacy of sunk costs begins to apply.  Many people may be willing to forgo the payout for work they did a few days prior in order to follow a more reliable stream of income.  The only outcome I see is bitter miners who refuse to return, keeping the hash rate low and leading to more long rounds. 

So it would be wrong to critique without a suggestion.  What if the jackpot were made more frequent, like it was in the beginning?  After each block, payout the .5 bitcoin jackpot.  This may serve as a carrot for people to keep mining on the long blocks because of the chance of the additional payout.
sr. member
Activity: 263
Merit: 250
Pool operator of Triplemining.com
What did everyone leave or something? Down to 60 GHash/s and it's been that way for a bit Sad

If I'm not mistaken, it's due to pool hopping. As it is, the current reward system means that in a long round like the current one, it's just more profitable for people to go contribute shares at another pool. Only way to fix this is to change the pool reward system.


We are going to change this; but not this round.... we'll keep you posted!
newbie
Activity: 42
Merit: 0
What did everyone leave or something? Down to 60 GHash/s and it's been that way for a bit Sad

If I'm not mistaken, it's due to pool hopping. As it is, the current reward system means that in a long round like the current one, it's just more profitable for people to go contribute shares at another pool. Only way to fix this is to change the pool reward system.
member
Activity: 71
Merit: 10
thevapebook.com
What did everyone leave or something? Down to 60 GHash/s and it's been that way for a bit Sad
newbie
Activity: 24
Merit: 0
Still waiting on a payout transaction. Is there something wrong or do I just need to wait a bit more?

#6732    Jul 24 2011 16:12:34    15HKCeMxVWeNq8x2yZCRPPZ6CgAY9r8ecv       -0.32295795 BTC    todo
#6072    Jul 23 2011 16:12:29    15HKCeMxVWeNq8x2yZCRPPZ6CgAY9r8ecv    Jul 23 2011 16:22:39    -0.14526035 BTC    CONFIRMED

Never mind payment showed up in wallet finally.
newbie
Activity: 24
Merit: 0
Still waiting on a payout transaction. Is there something wrong or do I just need to wait a bit more?

#6732    Jul 24 2011 16:12:34    15HKCeMxVWeNq8x2yZCRPPZ6CgAY9r8ecv       -0.32295795 BTC    todo
#6072    Jul 23 2011 16:12:29    15HKCeMxVWeNq8x2yZCRPPZ6CgAY9r8ecv    Jul 23 2011 16:22:39    -0.14526035 BTC    CONFIRMED
sr. member
Activity: 263
Merit: 250
Pool operator of Triplemining.com
All this even out is mostly retarded maths.

With the timeframe it takes right now to solomine compared to poolmine(or massive poolmine) the math will only catch up if we had infinite time to live and mine.

There is a limited supply of coins, and we will all die oneday, both these factors completely destroy the whole discussion of "eventually" it will even out or "eventually" you will earn more.

Sure stats add up but only when you work within an infinite timespace, we dont. People want to earn now and not later, the bigger the pool the more they earn now.

You're spreading FUD.

It is indeed true that things only work out for an infinite timespace and that we don't have infinite time. 

But mining is a gambling system, so you have an equal possibility that everything goes better then the statistically base line.  Nobody knows what will happen.  So this is not retarded math, our pool is more then large enough to average close to that base line.   As we are not the size of the largest pools, you will indeed have more fluctuations in how much you will get,  it's only that in our pool luck plays a bit more then in a bigger pool.  But luck can go both ways.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 502
All this even out is mostly retarded maths.

With the timeframe it takes right now to solomine compared to poolmine(or massive poolmine) the math will only catch up if we had infinite time to live and mine.

There is a limited supply of coins, and we will all die oneday, both these factors completely destroy the whole discussion of "eventually" it will even out or "eventually" you will earn more.

Sure stats add up but only when you work within an infinite timespace, we dont. People want to earn now and not later, the bigger the pool the more they earn now.
sr. member
Activity: 263
Merit: 250
Pool operator of Triplemining.com
I don't know if I like this...I only mine at night :\
Some nights you will earn less, some nights you will earn more.  This will even out, only change for you is your variance

I mean with this system it starts turning more into a system of gambling and chance. I could go 5 times without a block at night, then 1 time with 1 at night and then another losing streak again.

But you can go 5 blocks in a night too... in the end you will win as less BTC's will be stolen by poolhoppers, and more will remain for you.

Statistics are a bitch, but if you calculate correctly, you will earn more this way.
full member
Activity: 213
Merit: 100
I don't know if I like this...I only mine at night :\
Some nights you will earn less, some nights you will earn more.  This will even out, only change for you is your variance

I mean with this system it starts turning more into a system of gambling and chance. I could go 5 times without a block at night, then 1 time with 1 at night and then another losing streak again.
sr. member
Activity: 263
Merit: 250
Pool operator of Triplemining.com
I don't know if I like this...I only mine at night :\
Some nights you will earn less, some nights you will earn more.  This will even out, only change for you is your variance
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