ODI cricket and general cricketing discussion [self - mod] - page 1015.

galambo

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Quote from: doomloop on December 12, 2021, 03:50:40 PM

Agree here with you in this case because not even we have in cricket, we have many examples in other sports as well because I was reading in few blogs there are few coaches those never play these games but now doing great skills and having outstanding results as it need some good and different level mind and here in subcontinent have nothing like this in coaches mostly are just copying western points and giving their duties.

There are very few names of coaches that have outstanding international cricket record. I never saw Ravi Shastari taking portfolio of Coach at any level, don't know what makes BCCI to give him this job. BCCI normally appoints foreigner coach and same holds true for PCB. Lets see how far Rahual Dravi goes.

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Recently few cricketers are now starting coaching which is good for this game as they have very bright ideas and skills with this all surely cricket is going to be better as we require some innovative things for having some different results and interesting games for fans as well.

Also there are few international cricketers in umpiring as well Kumar Dharmasena an SL all-rounder and Paul Reiffel an Aus fast bowler.

JSRAW

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^^ Greg Chappell's era was indeed very controversial, not much during Duncan Fletcher's tenure, although our national team performances went down the gutter that time, if my memory serves me well.

But you can't add Gary Kirsten name in this list, he did hit a few road bumps at start but slowly he became sacred cow for the Indian team and everyone supported the dashing proteas cricketer.

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Quote from: mm2543363580 on December 12, 2021, 02:12:53 PM

See the profile of Australia coach in 1999, 2003 and 2007 WC John buchanan. He hasn't played a single international game. In fact he hasn't played much of cricket but still turned out to be an excellent coach. Coaching is entirely different thing then being a player. I don't know what John is doing these days but he is an outstanding coach.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/player/john-buchanan-4233

Australia has produced some excellent coaches. Apart from John Buchanan, there are others like Dav Whatmore, Greg Chappell, Geoff Marsh and Darren Lehmann. They are very professional and hard working, and not always afraid to voice their opinions. But the issue is that the sub-continent players doesn't always get going with them. Greg Chappell had some issues while working with the senior Indian players. Same happened with Gary Kirsten and Duncan Fletcher as well. Chappell had a stormy relationship with Ganguly, and also with some of the other seniors such as Sehwag, Harbhajan and Zaheer.

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Quote from: mm2543363580 on December 12, 2021, 02:12:53 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on December 12, 2021, 05:48:46 AM

Well.. I don't have in depth information about this issue. So what you are saying right now may be true. I am disappointed because I have always held Waqar in high regard. He is one of the bowling legends, not just in Pakistan, but also around the world. In the art of reverse swing, he is the absolute master. But good players not always need to be good coaches. And this is what happened to him perhaps. Maybe the PCB can find him another role in some other domain, such as administration or grass-roots development.

See the profile of Australia coach in 1999, 2003 and 2007 WC John buchanan. He hasn't played a single international game. In fact he hasn't played much of cricket but still turned out to be an excellent coach. Coaching is entirely different thing then being a player. I don't know what John is doing these days but he is an outstanding coach.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/player/john-buchanan-4233

Agree here with you in this case because not even we have in cricket, we have many examples in other sports as well because I was reading in few blogs there are few coaches those never play these games but now doing great skills and having outstanding results as it need some good and different level mind and here in subcontinent have nothing like this in coaches mostly are just copying western points and giving their duties.

Recently few cricketers are now starting coaching which is good for this game as they have very bright ideas and skills with this all surely cricket is going to be better as we require some innovative things for having some different results and interesting games for fans as well.

mm2543363580

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 12, 2021, 05:48:46 AM

Well.. I don't have in depth information about this issue. So what you are saying right now may be true. I am disappointed because I have always held Waqar in high regard. He is one of the bowling legends, not just in Pakistan, but also around the world. In the art of reverse swing, he is the absolute master. But good players not always need to be good coaches. And this is what happened to him perhaps. Maybe the PCB can find him another role in some other domain, such as administration or grass-roots development.

See the profile of Australia coach in 1999, 2003 and 2007 WC John buchanan. He hasn't played a single international game. In fact he hasn't played much of cricket but still turned out to be an excellent coach. Coaching is entirely different thing then being a player. I don't know what John is doing these days but he is an outstanding coach.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/player/john-buchanan-4233

Sithara007

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Quote from: galambo on December 12, 2021, 01:11:07 AM

Waqar has been appointed coach of Pakistan cricket for 2 to 3 times. Aqib Javed says whenever he is out from coaching he do commentary not spend time polishing his coaching skills. If being good bowler or batsman is criteria for being a coach then nobody is most suitable for this job other then Sachin n ponting.

Well.. I don't have in depth information about this issue. So what you are saying right now may be true. I am disappointed because I have always held Waqar in high regard. He is one of the bowling legends, not just in Pakistan, but also around the world. In the art of reverse swing, he is the absolute master. But good players not always need to be good coaches. And this is what happened to him perhaps. Maybe the PCB can find him another role in some other domain, such as administration or grass-roots development.

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Quote from: CDC AP on December 12, 2021, 02:46:56 AM

I always loved Ravi shastri as a commentator and since he started coaching I have been missing him in commentary.
I never liked him as a coach of indian team. He might be good but I think his attitude was much better in commentary. And now dravid as the coach of the team is a very good choise and I am sure india will do well under him. I really hope we see shastri in commentary soon.

There is no role offered to Shastri by BCCI so far , most probably he will be seen in commentary box very soon. Can someone show stats of how many new players he introduced in Indian team and is there any improvement in performance of existing players ? Just curious how was his role as coach.

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Quote from: Theones on December 12, 2021, 02:28:47 AM

Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 11, 2021, 11:52:24 PM

What happened has been forgotten by BCCI because there were members who always supported these two. Now, things have changed Kohli is out of captainship and Shastri is out of coaching. There is nothing good these two did for the team and the country that is why criticism is coming out for both of them. Such criticism were not shown for previous captains and coach of the Indian team.

Shastri was good commentator never knew he has coaching skills also. I am sure he has used his influence to get the appointment of Coach. BCCI is biggest board and its strange that how these two boards controlled everything there. Let's see whether Rohit n Dravid make any difference or they follow same path.

I always loved Ravi shastri as a commentator and since he started coaching I have been missing him in commentary.
I never liked him as a coach of indian team. He might be good but I think his attitude was much better in commentary. And now dravid as the coach of the team is a very good choise and I am sure india will do well under him. I really hope we see shastri in commentary soon.

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Quote from: pakhitheboss on December 11, 2021, 11:52:24 PM

What happened has been forgotten by BCCI because there were members who always supported these two. Now, things have changed Kohli is out of captainship and Shastri is out of coaching. There is nothing good these two did for the team and the country that is why criticism is coming out for both of them. Such criticism were not shown for previous captains and coach of the Indian team.

Shastri was good commentator never knew he has coaching skills also. I am sure he has used his influence to get the appointment of Coach. BCCI is biggest board and its strange that how these two boards controlled everything there. Let's see whether Rohit n Dravid make any difference or they follow same path.

galambo

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 11, 2021, 09:41:16 PM

OK.. so it is the senior players who ganged up against him. Waqar may have made some mistakes, due to his lack of experience as a coach. So what happened here is that his detractors and some of the senior players used it against him. I am afraid that the Pakistan team is going in the same direction as India, where the role of coach is largely "ceremonial". It is the senior players who decide on everything and this in turn leads to nepotism and bias. The PCB should make sure that this never happens.

Waqar has been appointed coach of Pakistan cricket for 2 to 3 times. Aqib Javed says whenever he is out from coaching he do commentary not spend time polishing his coaching skills. If being good bowler or batsman is criteria for being a coach then nobody is most suitable for this job other then Sachin n ponting.

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Quote from: Theones on December 11, 2021, 03:30:04 AM

Quote from: JSRAW on December 11, 2021, 02:31:54 AM

One should criticize Shastri all day long but no one should deny the fact that under his tenure India occupied the of number 1 spot in test ranking for 3-4 years, this includes retaining Test mace back to back years. How many other coaches in recent time brag this sort of achievement, ZERO.

I also never liked Shastri as a coach because of his cheer leading behavior and fucked up selection in South Africa and England (2018-19). Indian team was supposed to win both series but he and Kohli messed up the team combination royally.

In limited overs it was collective failure (Selectors +Captain+Coach) but only in ICC tournaments.

Shastri days are numbered and its time for Rahul to take on the seat. Its BCCI who must look over the affairs of the team and must not give extreme powers to Captain not to Coach. Why BCCI and other authorities were silent when Kohli and Shastri were crossing there limits? Its natural when you leave a seat, criticism follows you.

What happened has been forgotten by BCCI because there were members who always supported these two. Now, things have changed Kohli is out of captainship and Shastri is out of coaching. There is nothing good these two did for the team and the country that is why criticism is coming out for both of them. Such criticism were not shown for previous captains and coach of the Indian team.

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Quote from: perfect999 on December 11, 2021, 12:35:27 PM

No one has any doubt about Waqar was great bowler but as coach he lost his respect because he has done few decisions which were biased because of some grouping into team and this hurt Pakistan team very badly. Amir and few other players were openly pointing out things against him because of his very poor management and having issues with some senior players, but due to his personal links into PCB, no one was going against him. But good thing now PCB is working under some professional peoples those have respect for players and good skills to handle things neutrally.

Hopefully now as commentator he will start his work again because it's much better than coaching.

OK.. so it is the senior players who ganged up against him. Waqar may have made some mistakes, due to his lack of experience as a coach. So what happened here is that his detractors and some of the senior players used it against him. I am afraid that the Pakistan team is going in the same direction as India, where the role of coach is largely "ceremonial". It is the senior players who decide on everything and this in turn leads to nepotism and bias. The PCB should make sure that this never happens.

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Quote from: og kush420 on December 11, 2021, 01:13:17 AM

Waqar was no doubt a great bowler but he turned out to be poor coach. During his tenure as head and bowling coach he was surrounded by controversial decisions, as he include players of his choice in team. He was biggest obstacle for Sarfraz in team inclusion. As a coach you have to do some courses as well to get skills of coaching.
Was shastri competent enough to coach india?

No one has any doubt about Waqar was great bowler but as coach he lost his respect because he has done few decisions which were biased because of some grouping into team and this hurt Pakistan team very badly. Amir and few other players were openly pointing out things against him because of his very poor management and having issues with some senior players, but due to his personal links into PCB, no one was going against him. But good thing now PCB is working under some professional peoples those have respect for players and good skills to handle things neutrally.

Hopefully now as commentator he will start his work again because it's much better than coaching.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 11, 2021, 02:31:54 AM

One should criticize Shastri all day long but no one should deny the fact that under his tenure India occupied the of number 1 spot in test ranking for 3-4 years, this includes retaining Test mace back to back years. How many other coaches in recent time brag this sort of achievement, ZERO.

I also never liked Shastri as a coach because of his cheer leading behavior and fucked up selection in South Africa and England (2018-19). Indian team was supposed to win both series but he and Kohli messed up the team combination royally.

In limited overs it was collective failure (Selectors +Captain+Coach) but only in ICC tournaments.

Shastri days are numbered and its time for Rahul to take on the seat. Its BCCI who must look over the affairs of the team and must not give extreme powers to Captain not to Coach. Why BCCI and other authorities were silent when Kohli and Shastri were crossing there limits? Its natural when you leave a seat, criticism follows you.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 11, 2021, 01:07:43 AM

~snip~ I sill don't understand what Shastri actually did during all these years while he was coaching the Indian team.

One should criticize Shastri all day long but no one should deny the fact that under his tenure India occupied the number 1 spot in test ranking for 3-4 years, this includes retaining Test mace back to back years. How many other coaches in recent time brag this sort of achievement, ZERO.

I also never liked Shastri as a coach because of his cheer leading behavior and fucked up selection in South Africa and England (2018-19). Indian team was supposed to win both series but he and Kohli messed up the team combination royally.

In limited overs it was collective failure (Selectors +Captain+Coach) but only in ICC tournaments.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on December 11, 2021, 01:07:43 AM

I have to disagree with you on Waqar. He is regarded as one of the foremost experts in the art of banana swing. It is hard to imagine a bowling coach who is more skilled than Waqar. And his experience as a commentator should not be viewed in negative light. The case with Shastri is different. Coach has mostly a nominal role within the Indian cricket team. It is the captain who makes all the decisions and prepare the training regimen. I sill don't understand what Shastri actually did during all these years while he was coaching the Indian team.

Waqar was no doubt a great bowler but he turned out to be poor coach. During his tenure as head and bowling coach he was surrounded by controversial decisions, as he include players of his choice in team. He was biggest obstacle for Sarfraz in team inclusion. As a coach you have to do some courses as well to get skills of coaching.
Was shastri competent enough to coach india?

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Quote from: og kush420 on December 11, 2021, 12:36:48 AM

Shastri was doing commentary for more then two decades. I never saw him in coaching side. It was surprising why bcci appoints a commentator as head coach. Does he has some experience of coaching? PAKISTAN also did the same mistake of appointing waqar younis as bowling coach, he was good bowler but his focus was commentary not coaching.

I have to disagree with you on Waqar. He is regarded as one of the foremost experts in the art of banana swing. It is hard to imagine a bowling coach who is more skilled than Waqar. And his experience as a commentator should not be viewed in negative light. The case with Shastri is different. Coach has mostly a nominal role within the Indian cricket team. It is the captain who makes all the decisions and prepare the training regimen. I sill don't understand what Shastri actually did during all these years while he was coaching the Indian team.

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Quote from: JSRAW on December 10, 2021, 11:03:54 PM

BCCI didn't sacked Ravi Shastri, his contract was about to over along with bowling coach (Batting coach was new, he's still with the team) and that's why they started headhunting their replacement even during WTC finals. As of now one new IPL franchise already in touch with him for head coach gig, let's see.

Shastri was doing commentary for more then two decades. I never saw him in coaching side. It was surprising why bcci appoints a commentator as head coach. Does he has some experience of coaching? PAKISTAN also did the same mistake of appointing waqar younis as bowling coach, he was good bowler but his focus was commentary not coaching.

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Quote from: mm2543363580 on December 10, 2021, 01:22:17 PM

Quote from: savetheFORUM on December 09, 2021, 02:15:52 PM

This was in plan, but they were waiting for something, so it's happen in this T20 WC, and they have done these changes which are very good because now Kohli can play without any pressure and his performance can help Indian cricket team for having some better results. Rohit is also having some good experience in these both short formats, so hopefully now he will also be having good time as captain in coming T20 and ODI world cup.

With all new management and having coach like Dravid it is very good new era for Indian cricket which is going to start at very bad time when we have new wave of corona in South Africa, and they are travelling lest see what's happened for them here.

So it means now Rohit will play under the pressure of Captaincy? Any info about Ravi Shastri, is he completely fired from BCCI or still has some portfolio there? Man he is too good in commentary. I love to see him back on the commentary box. He and Late Tony Craig are my all time favorite. Cant wait to listen his commentary.

BCCI didn't sacked Ravi Shastri, his contract was about to over along with bowling coach (Batting coach was new, he's still with the team) and that's why they started headhunting their replacement even during WTC finals. As of now one new IPL franchise already in touch with him for head coach gig, let's see.

There are also some BS reports coming that BCCI sacked Virat Kohli from the ODI captaincy. This sounds ridiculous to me, as no cricketing nation allow 2 full time captain in white ball cricket(T-20 and ODI) So when Virat stepped down from the T-20 captaincy, it was obvious that Rohit will lead the national team in the white ball cricket, may be for next 2-3 years only because he's also getting old.

All these changes indicates that Indian team is about to enter into transitional period in next 3-4 years. New crop will take the charge soon.

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Quote from: onecall123 on December 08, 2021, 10:16:10 AM

Finally, BCCI announced the India ODI captain. India have named Rohit Sharma as their new ODI captain, replacing Virat Kohli. I think that was a logical decision. There is no doubt that Virat Kohli is one of the best cricketers in the world, but speaking of his captaincy, there is something missing and expectations aren't met. This is not to say that Kohli did not deserve that role. It was always believed somewhere that Rohit had a slight advantage over him when it came to limited overs.

As a player, others are miles behind Virat Kohli. There was a time when the team used to be overdependent on Kohli, during the SENA tours. But then I guess power got in to his head. He started interfering in team selection and got the perfect sidekick in the form of damaadji (Ravi Shastri). Dhoni is also accused of having bias and favoritism, but his choices were never as useless as the ones Kohli had. Kohli just persisted with substandard players, only because they were loyal to him. I don't know how different is Rohit. Let's wait and watch.

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