Topic: Official Thread: AMT - page 257. (Read 678353 times)

Grumpysbeargirl: What was their response to you on the phone?

Please share details with us, the more the better.

I'm sure everyone wants to see you get your moneyback and how AMT resolves this situation.

Thanks

Dirty lie dude it is same chip. If you wanna efficient miner go for bitfury miner or under lock coincraft. If they do something at all it will be a trade of between power and hashing rate.
The math is very simple dude
1. Chip supplier gives you a figure of power at one volt or whatever chip power is
2. The above figure is taken from simulations not real chips and differs with let say 10 % from reality. When chip is Overclocked the difference is quite big
3. Add at least 10% for cd/cd 12v to 1 and on top 15at least psu loss
There is one slight chance for them to meet their figures if they putt wise as much chips as planned and under clock them. It is too late to do the math right know but they will roughly loose 60 chips costing 100 used each to make it happen and so on and on
Again it will be not their fault the chip needs power that is all
And they are aware of the fact they speak nonces unless instead of 220/120 v in your plugs you happen to have ONE VOLT dc 

And pulling around 3W/GH I believe, albeit overclocked, but without even accounting for the PSU inefficiency.
Based on the same chip, AMT are still claiming 0.5-0.75 W/GH at the wall, and thats up from their previous ludicrous claim of 0.25-0.5W/GH.

To quote AMTs favorite shill:

Thank you. THIS exactly.

Thanks RickJameBTC and sirminesalot for the posts. Rick, it was a wire transfer so there is no chargeback...that's why it's even more concerning at this point.

I realize we're not the only customer who may want a refund but I feel like we've been polite enough (and I know many others have probably not been so polite) that the least you could do is honor us the refund.

We would like our money back for Order #1196, as I've said many times before and through countless emails and phone calls.

Biomech,

I agree with most of what you've posted and I applaud your effort to document your Miner to your best abilities: especially during the course of having a baby.

I understand the industry and hurdles of getting pre sales, compiling/sourcing bleeding edge technology, and delivering to your investors - all I am asking for is clear updates on the status of things. You are completely right about letting us know about delays, these updates should come directly from AMT first so people aren't left questioning what the deal is. This forum is an ASSET to AMT and other mining operations to let their customers know what is going on before worry sets in.

Like what RickJames said, if you treat your customers with respect - you get respect in return (regardless of bad things happening). We all know that shit happens, JUST LET US KNOW!

I find it more suspicious when you have to find out in a round about way that the chips are delayed from the manufacturer, versus the company that is building your rig and has your money.

All early investors should be treated equal, regardless of their opinions or cynicism. All of our money is the same color after all, and it's unrealistic to expect people that have shelled out thousands of dollars to 'hope for the best' when the receive little to no information about what's going on.

No offense taken. They were pretty awful. I'm working on doing a better one. Truth is, the whole thing caught me off guard and with terrible timing. Not their fault, but I got the miner a few days before my child was born, and there have been multiple medical issues to deal with. In the next few days I will make a far better video, with cgminer screenshots as well as the setup of the miner.

For what it's worth, I will say that I am not in cahoots with AMT. I got on well with Jim on the phone and by email, but the closest I've ever been to Philly was Pittsburgh. Which is a place I hope to never set foot in again.

I too am still skeptical of their ability to deliver, and I think they need to savagely overhaul their customer service. I am grateful for the miner, and PERSONALLY very happy with it. It's a solid machine. You can see most of it's history on my eligius page http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Eu1iqrQW2P6fSPLpGXLXiZ4828BnXpRJi. It jumps around 80 GH/s on a second to second basis, but it averages just about 80 over the course of a day. Oddly, turning down the voltage made it hash a bit faster, though the moment to moment jumps and dips are wilder.

I've used it on two pools, BTCguild and Eligius. I was going to try Ghash.io, but I couldn't get it to connect for some reason. Pissed me off so I never went back.

All of the above being said, it's essentially a toy by comparison to the Bitmine.ch based miners that are soon to be in production. The two guys I've interacted with seem to be very tech savvy dudes, so I don't actually have much worries on the production end, other than supplier issues. Giorgio at Bitmine.ch has confirmed as recently as yesterday that AMT are indeed their American business partners. Their CS has not been stellar either. In fact, the only ASIC company I can say has been totally upfront is Bitmain, and they are doing very well because of it. But the Antminer is not really much better than the HEX16B's in my AMT Steadfast 80, and at least so far, Bitmain has not announced or indicated that they are moving to a lower process node. I do believe that AMT is legit. I think they are rank amateurs in the world of business, and they have done some things in this thread that made them look rather bad, such as offering discounts for positive posts, etc.

Giving me the miner may have been a bad move for them as well, though having somebody review a machine is not uncommon. I hope it's helped them, and I will deliver a much more comprehensive report. I am somewhat biased. I wasn't going into it, but I like these guys. They do very much need to resolve their front of the house issues. We all knew the machines were going to be delayed, since we new they were based on the Coincraft A1, which was delayed. They should have announced this the minute they knew. It's a hard thing to do, since you want to be positive in all things about your business, but it would have allayed a lot of suspicion.

Fortunately, the thread has calmed down a lot. This community treated them poorly, and they responded poorly. I have a thick skin, but I do understand how awful it feels to be blasted before you've even had a chance to perform, and I can understand the desire to hide. But business is not a discipline that allows an emotional response from vendors.

Jim, if you're reading this, I highly suggest you invest in a heavy punching bag and a good CS rep

100 miners should be ready for UPS/FedEX pickup?

Scammers bank on the fact that most people won't fight it : because the ones that don't always outweigh the ones that do.

Unless you prefer eu based company technobit I can assure all of you that I am having eight chip coincraft board in hand hashing like I beast 240-250 gh

Yes, people should have paid with credit cards and paypal. However, if they did pay with bitcoin, their recourse is through the courts, not whining on a forum. Nobody ever bothers filing the lawsuit, they just sit around waiting for the magic mining machines to someday appear. Look at all the BFL customers who waited a YEAR for shipment! It doesn't cost much to file in small claims court, you don't need a lawyer, and while it can be difficult, it is not impossible to collect on a judgement.

I read it, but your solution isn't a determinate way to get your money back. Filing a lawsuit takes time and additional money and still you aren't guaranteed of getting anything back. Anyone who has paid with a Wire Transfer is equal to having walked up to AMT and giving them a stack of cash. Good luck involving the system over Bitcoins BTC.

My point is that Credit Cards / Paypal / Escrow - should be a given for these kinds of purchases. Especially since we're talking thousands of dollars and buyers need some kind of protection.

A company should have start up capital to build the preliminary product and go from there. I completely agree with you on that.

I just want to see the credit card payment system fixed. I tried to make several purchases and was told each time by Alyssa that you cant accept my payment due to your processor. (was supposed to be fixed in late December to early January)

I said what to do if you paid with something other than a credit card, or did you skip right over that?

AMT you haven't earned any trust, you started things out by being insulting and nasty, deleting your posts, and having to apologize for it. You have a few people who stick up for you because they are afraid if they don't, you will run away with their preorder funds. Instead of asking more people to make preorders, with no chance of refund as you just said, why don't you focus on running a proper business, getting a product shipping, and treating your customers with respect and honesty.

How are you going to get a charge back issued if you paid AMT with a bank wire transfer or Bitcoins BTC? You won't and you'll be up a creek.

This alone like it or not, is shady.

Whenever someone on Ebay or Craigslist requests Wire Transfers or Checks in the Mail ONLY right away 99% of the time everyone assumes it's a scam - but in this case we shouldn't. Come on!

We've already gained our client's and the trust from several members of this community. Now all we have to do is deliver a stable scalable machine. Why don't you purchase one. End of March delivery is still available and there will be upgrade options to combat difficulty.

I agree, the alternatives for bit coin mining suck : but that doesn't mean they set the bar for the industry in terms of communication to prospective buyers / commited pre-orders.

Details about who I am or how old I am is irrelevant to what we are talking about. A valid question or statement is just that, a valid one.

Comparing your company to APPLE is like, yes, comparing APPLES to ORANGES.  A company the size of APPLE won't dissolve itself over $50,000 to $100,000 of unfulfilled orders (be it defective hardware, poor design, a winter storm, whatever the case may be).  I mean, can you even tell me about the last pre-order ANYTHING APPLE has sold recently? Point me to these terms of service in regards to APPLE's Pre-order devices and I'll gladly read it.

I hope you succeed and deliver, that's all I want. I think it would be great to have an American company producing these rigs as there is an obvious demand for them. The less that goes to China or a scammer in Croatia, the better.

All I am after is clear updates and offering the advice to better serve yourself and your customers. Consumer confidence is important and just because the industry is flawed in all of these different ways (scammers, under performing/oversold equipemnt, overheating, poor design, etc) doesn't mean that is an excuse to say "ABC Mining Company just screwed 500 people out of money, so Hey, take it or leave it!"

How about stepping up to the plate and earning our trust?

Time will tell. Thanks for the response, I will continue checking for updates and hoping for the best for everyone waiting on the new Miners.

Mr. Piklo,

Let me go ahead and answer your questions as best as possible.

1. Thanks for not calling and speaking to one of our representatives that can further assist you. I apologize but we dont give all of our specific information to random people off the street that we dont know on some forum. For all we know, you could be 12 years old.

2. I'm sorry that you cannot travel to Pennsylvania, we have the intention to expand our operation in the future but for now our humble office outside Philadelphia is the best we can do.

3. The reason there are no updates is because what we do is make a product as fast as possible, and the usual 1-2 year period to bring a product to market doesn't really apply in this situation. We know what works and what doesnt, plans are made in this industry and situations like heat control are no joke. Sometimes things need to be reworked before getting it right because no one has gotten it 100% right thus far and no one gets it right on the first/second or even third try. We also need to meet ISO and UL standards.

If you'd like to chance your money with some of the other companies which claim to have a working Terrahash miner, or are based out of Pakistan or Russia, Ukraine or one of those countries please do. I'm sure they will give lots of technical information and specifications of machines that don't really exist and never will.

AMT you HAVE to give a customer a refund if they ask on the preorder. Don't worry about what other companies do, most of them are shit. If you don't have the money to refund a few customers who aren't patient, you shouldn't be running this business. There are laws about this, call the FTC and ask them if you can indefinitely keep customer funds for preordered product that you are using to finance your startup business when they ask for refunds...  Don't be another scammer, when a customer wants a refund you give it to them and sell their "spot" to someone else. Anything less makes you suspect. You should not have entered this business without enough financing to secure the product before sales.


Also, people. If you don't get a refund on a product like this, initiate chargeback proceedings with your credit card immediately. If you paid in bitcoin, go to your local courthouse and file a lawsuit in small claims court for the amount you paid. Don't be stupid and wait for someone else to do it for you. Make noise, get noticed, and watch how quickly the company sends you that refund.

Sirminesalot has given no indication he placed an order with AMT and clearly doesn't plan to.
Sirminesalot made an account here specifically to talk about AMT after lurking for months.  His stated goal is to come to the defense of everybody who has ordered from AMT.
Sirminesalot has no history with members on this board since he just signed up, less than 12 hours since this post.

You're asking AMT to disclose their intellectual property on a product that has not been released as of yet and using that as bait to spread FUD.

Sirminesalot, do you even have an order with AMT?  If not, why the sudden altruism towards customers of AMT and only AMT?  If you check the forums its clear there are others in need of your encouragement.

MBlackout: Sorry bud but I'm not going to become an AMT Fanboy because you simply ask me to. I can assure you there are more people out there that would prefer clear concise updates from AMT along with pictures of what they will be getting and accurate timelines.

AMT_Miners: I am not going to waste your time on the phone so you can update me with details. What I am after are the FACTS from you posted HERE, so everyone that has pre-ordered and has their mortgage payments on the line, can read them as well.

Doesn't that make sense? Update the community here with timely DETAILED posts, so you don't have a few dozen people calling your team so you can answer the same questions over and over?

Not everyone has access to travel to Pennsylvania and visit your office. I'm sure you have money from people all over the country.

You would think that since you:

1. Sell the product via your Website ONLINE
2. Take money ONLINE (wire transfers & bitcoins BTC ONLY)
3. Give updates to the investing community ONLINE
4. Deal in BITCOIN MINING (which is based ONLINE)

You would be able to recognize that all of this information should be ONLINE and accessible by the user base.

It's 2014 and having to call in to talk to someone over the phone about hashing details and power consumption shouldn't be necessary.

All I am asking for is clear concise updates in a timely manner with SUBSTANCE. This means better photos and more details about what to expect in terms of parts/etc. The time spent to update the community will save your team loads of lost time explaining these details to customers over the phone.

I look forward to new detailed photos this week of the first few units assembled (this includes the internal and external parts along with mining screenshots).

Thanks for the response.