There is no higher authority in this case.
Luke would disagree, of course. 
Topic: [OLD] Eligius: ASIC, no registration, no fee CPPSRB BTC + 105% PPS NMC, 877 # - page 162. (Read 458255 times)
January 06, 2012, 01:06:34 PM
January 06, 2012, 01:06:00 PM
I propose forming a clearly named "attack pool". Why not simply do things above board? I'm sure such a thing will be popular with the kiddies and cause everybody lots of problems.
January 06, 2012, 01:04:56 PM
When you sign up for Eligius, the terms state you will be paid X BTC per share and Y NMC per valid share you submit. NO WHERE does it say that the shares will be used for the exclusive purpose of advancing the bitcoin and/or namecoin blockchains.
I hope you unknowingly sign up at a pool that uses YOUR hashing power to crack Government site passwords as well as re-encode Child Pornography videos for web publishing.... and your IP is logged as being part of the 'hashing power'.........but hey, as long as you get paid in BTC and NMC for each share, who cares what else is done with your hashing power, right ? January 06, 2012, 01:03:57 PM
It seems to me that joining a mining pool is kinda like having a verbal contract with the operator. It's clearly stated that it's a mining pool and nowhere is it identified as an "attack pool". Has he broken laws? No. Has he abused the trust of the people mining in that pool? Yes.
What implications does this have for the community as a whole?
Basically if it's ok to do this then it's ok for a pool operator to do anything with the hashes. It could be construed to support any type of attack. So for an example, lets say there's a pool operator who starts a DDoS attack on the largest pools while simultaneously starting a 51% attack. Is this person within his/her rights? Is that ok? I think my example is similar to what Luke did.
I think he broke what is essentially a verbal contract and has displayed some of the worst behavior possible from a pool operator.
It's important that we differentiate between what is acceptable and what is not. Starting a war between pools and coins is counter productive. The larger hash power always wins? If that's the case it would make adopting a better (imaginary) coin impossible. There is no higher authority in this case. So the burden rests with the individuals. Do the right thing.
What implications does this have for the community as a whole?
Basically if it's ok to do this then it's ok for a pool operator to do anything with the hashes. It could be construed to support any type of attack. So for an example, lets say there's a pool operator who starts a DDoS attack on the largest pools while simultaneously starting a 51% attack. Is this person within his/her rights? Is that ok? I think my example is similar to what Luke did.
I think he broke what is essentially a verbal contract and has displayed some of the worst behavior possible from a pool operator.
It's important that we differentiate between what is acceptable and what is not. Starting a war between pools and coins is counter productive. The larger hash power always wins? If that's the case it would make adopting a better (imaginary) coin impossible. There is no higher authority in this case. So the burden rests with the individuals. Do the right thing.
January 06, 2012, 01:03:08 PM
What YOU are basically saying is that, it's nobody's business what the hashing power is used for, as long as it is partially used for BTC......
The Pool Op can do whatever he/she chooses to do with it....WITHOUT the miner's consent.
The Pool Op can do whatever he/she chooses to do with it....WITHOUT the miner's consent.
You almost got it..
What I'm saying is that for all PPS pools, you are being paid for shares. Those shares can be used however the pool wants. Hell, some pools pay you for stale shares just because they want to. You do work (make shares) and get paid for it. How the work is then used is up to whomever bought it in the first place. If you don't like those terms, find somewhere that has more agreeable terms to you.
January 06, 2012, 01:00:52 PM
Where on the pool site does it support what you just said?
Are you an idiot ? ....as an example: WOULD YOU DONATE SUPPORT, TIME OR MONEY TO A CHILDREN'S CHARITY IF THE MONEY/PROCEEDS WERE BEING SENT TO WAGE WAR IN IRAQ INSTEAD OF HELPING CHILDREN ?
When I donate to a charity, I make sure they guarantee/describe what the money will be used for. If I later find out they broke that guarantee, I could take action, either demanding a refund, suing in court, etc.
WELL THEN, it looks like Luke's miners have a grievance to file, in regards to THEIR hashing power being used in a malicious fashion, for Cyber Vandalism MERGED with Bitcoin and Namecoin mining, RIGHT?
Their hashing power is directed to the pool and managed as a TRUST.
I honestly can't wait for a smart pool op to further merge password cracking for his own means, using his pool's hashing power without their knowledge. Now THAT will stir up a huge shit storm.
When you sign up for Eligius, the terms state you will be paid X BTC per share and Y NMC per valid share you submit. NO WHERE does it say that the shares will be used for the exclusive purpose of advancing the bitcoin and/or namecoin blockchains.
January 06, 2012, 01:00:32 PM
I don't know, bitlane, why don't ask Google to invest, support your chain?
If it's so good, i guess luke can't beat Google, and you'll win!
In coinworld, hashing power is the real power, and needs(money) define hashing power.
Spitting here is nonsense.
If it's so good, i guess luke can't beat Google, and you'll win!
In coinworld, hashing power is the real power, and needs(money) define hashing power.
Spitting here is nonsense.
January 06, 2012, 12:57:06 PM
Where on the pool site does it support what you just said?
Are you an idiot ? ....as an example: WOULD YOU DONATE SUPPORT, TIME OR MONEY TO A CHILDREN'S CHARITY IF THE MONEY/PROCEEDS WERE BEING SENT TO WAGE WAR IN IRAQ INSTEAD OF HELPING CHILDREN ?
When I donate to a charity, I make sure they guarantee/describe what the money will be used for. If I later find out they broke that guarantee, I could take action, either demanding a refund, suing in court, etc.
WELL THEN, it looks like Luke's miners have a grievance to file, in regards to THEIR hashing power being used in a malicious fashion, for Cyber Vandalism MERGED with Bitcoin and Namecoin mining, RIGHT?
Their hashing power is directed to the pool and managed as a TRUST.....to be used as described, for what the miners officially 'signed up for'...
I honestly can't wait for a smart pool op to further merge password cracking for his own means, using his pool's hashing power without their knowledge. Now THAT will stir up a huge shit storm.
What YOU are basically saying is that, it's nobody's business what the hashing power is used for, as long as it is partially used for BTC......
The Pool Op can do whatever he/she chooses to do with it....WITHOUT the miner's consent.
January 06, 2012, 12:54:04 PM
Where on the pool site does it support what you just said?
Are you an idiot ? ....as an example: WOULD YOU DONATE SUPPORT, TIME OR MONEY TO A CHILDREN'S CHARITY IF THE MONEY/PROCEEDS WERE BEING SENT TO WAGE WAR IN IRAQ INSTEAD OF HELPING CHILDREN ?
When I donate to a charity, I make sure they guarantee/describe what the money will be used for. If I later find out they broke that guarantee, I could take action, either demanding a refund, suing in court, etc.
January 06, 2012, 12:52:13 PM
In addition to helping children. Merged, remember.
-MarkM-
-MarkM-
January 06, 2012, 12:49:42 PM
Where on the pool site does it support what you just said?
Are you an idiot ? ....as an example: WOULD YOU DONATE SUPPORT, TIME OR MONEY TO A CHILDREN'S CHARITY IF THE MONEY/PROCEEDS WERE BEING SENT TO WAGE WAR IN IRAQ INSTEAD OF HELPING CHILDREN ?
January 06, 2012, 12:46:56 PM
Miners that got abused by Luke have all the right to leave him if he stole some hours of their mining profit but they should look into their contract. I doubt there is any guarantee to get actual bitcoins for mining at Eligius.
Merged mining. No wasted hashes.
It does say that for every share you provide, you get paid a certain amount of BTC. It doesn't say he has to use it for Bitcoin or anything else. He could pay you in bitcoins and use the hashes for solidcoin if he wanted.
Where on the pool site does it support what you just said? He makes no guarantees as to what the hashes were used for.
When namecoin merged mining first came around and it was enabled on Eligius, the miners demanded a share of the namecoins because they had mined it. I'm surprised that they haven't demanded a share of the coiledcoins. Paying those coins out would effectively kill part of luke's kill effort.
January 06, 2012, 12:46:03 PM
Miners that got abused by Luke have all the right to leave him if he stole some hours of their mining profit but they should look into their contract. I doubt there is any guarantee to get actual bitcoins for mining at Eligius.
Merged mining. No wasted hashes.
It does say that for every share you provide, you get paid a certain amount of BTC. It doesn't say he has to use it for Bitcoin or anything else. He could pay you in bitcoins and use the hashes for solidcoin if he wanted.
January 06, 2012, 12:42:32 PM
Miners that got abused by Luke have all the right to leave him if he stole some hours of their mining profit but they should look into their contract. I doubt there is any guarantee to get actual bitcoins for mining at Eligius.
Merged mining. No wasted hashes.
It does say that for every share you provide, you get paid a certain amount of BTC. It doesn't say he has to use it for Bitcoin or anything else. He could pay you in bitcoins and use the hashes for solidcoin if he wanted.
January 06, 2012, 12:41:08 PM
Yeah I would like to hear the reasoning as to why it was deleted. Seems to be an abuse of mod power to me. I still have a copy of the first page in my browser window.
Could you please PM me my first post, if you don't mind ?PM it to me too
January 06, 2012, 12:39:59 PM
Yeah I would like to hear the reasoning as to why it was deleted. Seems to be an abuse of mod power to me. I still have a copy of the first page in my browser window.
Could you please PM me my first post, if you don't mind ? January 06, 2012, 12:39:37 PM
me too.
EDIT:
I mean, i would lend my hashing power too, if you provide more BTC or NMC.
EDIT:
I mean, i would lend my hashing power too, if you provide more BTC or NMC.
January 06, 2012, 12:38:42 PM
Yeah I would like to hear the reasoning as to why it was deleted. Seems to be an abuse of mod power to me. I still have a copy of the first page in my browser window.
January 06, 2012, 12:36:35 PM
It is not up to you, me or anyone else to decide which is legit, if people want to mine and trade them they can. Or that was the case until this asshole took it upon himself to decide for everyone else... And as to your just posted comment for someone who disagrees with him on most things you sure have your nose stuck firmly up his ass on this one.
It IS up to each of us to decide which is legit and which to use. Anyone that mines with a pool inherently gives the pool operator permission to use his/her hashes as the pool op wants. Each miner has to trust that the pool op is doing what he/she has announced and nothing more/less. If a miner feels the pool operator has abused that position of trust/acted in bad faith, the miner is free to mine somewhere else.
Just because I disagree with you, does not mean I am a "brown noser."
January 06, 2012, 12:36:18 PM
My thread in regards to "Pool Ops being the new Alt Coin Police" has been DELETED from the Pools Forum.
Censorship at it's finest.
I feel as though I am about to be banned....and I guess that makes sense, considering this forum allows scammers of all sorts to thrive in the Marketplace without consequence, yet a LEGITIMATE POST in regards to a malicious act of vandalism is deleted from view.
Par for the course, as it seems.
Just in case this is my last post, thanks for the memories.
Censorship at it's finest.
I feel as though I am about to be banned....and I guess that makes sense, considering this forum allows scammers of all sorts to thrive in the Marketplace without consequence, yet a LEGITIMATE POST in regards to a malicious act of vandalism is deleted from view.
Par for the course, as it seems.
Just in case this is my last post, thanks for the memories.
I'm not sure why your post was deleted, I wasn't the mod to do it. If anything it should have just been moved. It may be undeleted in the future, but only an admin can do that.
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