Would they even be legally allowed to use customers' deposits for their own legal defence? Or would they break a law? If this was the case there'd be no reason to withold refunds at this point. They shouldn't be allowed to spend our money on lawyers since this would be theft. Obviously, it isn't their money.
There have been no refunds and no more communication. Therefore, it can be concluded they must have declared insolvency and let an insolvency administrator handle the refunds. In this case, I'm afraid proudhon is right. It may be months before anything gets resolved and esp. those with minor claims must fear to be at the end of a long list and end up getting nothing.
I personally trusted my money to Zhoutong, and now I have to deal with consultancies, bureaucracy, and the police? Why isn't Zhou taking responsibility?
Least one could do is to demand the scammer tag for all of them asap, in order to warn and protect future customers from being screwed over.
Nothing left to do than letting the big dogs out.
Topic: [Payout Updates] Bitcoinica site is taken offline for security investigation - page 61. (Read 156711 times)
June 09, 2012, 09:22:19 AM
June 09, 2012, 08:56:58 AM
You're not going to be able to please everybody, let alone everybody all at once, that much is absolutely clear. So, why not start with what you're most certain of now and then work your way down to the ones that seem fishy. The way things are going, everybody is going to lose because eventually somebody will start legal action, and then a bunch more will join in, all the money will get spent on legal fees, and nobody will get any money back. That will be an absolute blight to the reputation of everyone involved in bitcoinica's management.
Give those who made verifiable claims and are willing to take what they can get as much money as you can so that, at the very least, we don't get taken down with the sinking ship bitcoinica. That's as close to a win as any of you are going to get in this situation as you'll have at least saved a bit of your reputation (when I say "you" I don't mean "Zhoutong", I mean everyone managing bitcoinica).
Give those who made verifiable claims and are willing to take what they can get as much money as you can so that, at the very least, we don't get taken down with the sinking ship bitcoinica. That's as close to a win as any of you are going to get in this situation as you'll have at least saved a bit of your reputation (when I say "you" I don't mean "Zhoutong", I mean everyone managing bitcoinica).
I wouldn't worry too much about them spending money that we placed on deposit and using it for legal fees. First off, the moment an official charges them with a crime of this nature the normal course of action for the prosecutor is to have all of their assets frozen. Secondly any money they managed to hide from the the legal process would be taken the minute it surfaced. Finally I'm recommending that we take actions which by their very nature pierce the corporate veil. This is not good faith on their part and so the veil would not protect them. It never has been a defense anywhere in the world that "Yeah I committed a crime, but I was acting as an agent of my business and therefore I'm free and clear". Sorry the law doesn't work that way.
June 09, 2012, 08:52:35 AM
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I sincerely hope you will take the time and effort to file a criminal complaint against them. The more of us that do this, the faster we will see action on it.
I hate to say it, but I don't care whether they're convicted of a crime. I care about getting bitcoins back.
June 09, 2012, 08:43:28 AM
the way Bitcoinica Consultancy has been handling this debacle from start it shouldn't come as a surprise if they're being served as well by the investors, hence their silence and the delay with claims/refunds process. of course it's just a wild speculation.
June 09, 2012, 08:36:41 AM
To my fellow Bitcoinica users.
Thus far repeated attempts to contact Bitcoinica regarding a refund from them have met with nothing more than structured silence.
I promised in a previous comment on this thread that I would explain the process to begin legal proceedings against Bitcoinica and this post is my attempt to fulfill my promise.
Be aware that this is not intended as legal advice.
What I am about to explain is primarily applicable to United States citizens, however the legal logic, reasoning and process is somewhat universal, because what they are doing now is theft, breach of trust and malfeasance, which most countries in the world do have laws against.
First you must by now be aware that due to the way Bitcoinica was structured, civil proceedings are going to be difficult.
However this does not mean that all is lost. The behavior shown thus far by Bitcoinica, and Bitcoin Consultancy does in fact appear to rise to the level of a criminal enterprise. Therefore an active criminal investigation is warranted. Once there has been action on a criminal complaint most of the evidence uncovered becomes a matter of public record and then can be used in civil litigation as well.
In the United States the primary charge to seek is one of Wire Fraud, 18 USC : 1343
"Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both."
Which leads us to a question of jurisdiction. You should go down to your local police station and file an official complaint. The local police are unlikely to be able to do much more than take your complaint. However that complaint is your key to the rest of this. Before you file your complaint though make sure to have all of your ducks in a row. First gather any supporting evidence you have. This includes checking your bank if you deposited funds via wire, mtgox for mtgox codes etc. Deposits made by Bitcoin are easy enough to verify via BlockChain explorer.
A criminal complaint should answer the questions of who, what, where, when and how.
For the "who" you would be best served by naming the individuals involved thus far, especially those with a more public profile such as
Christopher HEASLIP (Owner of record according to http://www.business.govt.nz)
Flat 3, 10 Dorchester Street, Meadowbank, Auckland, 1072 , New Zealand
Also make sure to put in the complaint "D.B.A. Bitcoinica LP, DBA Bitcoinica Consultancy, DBA Core Credit Limited, DBA PushPay".
The rest is your specific allegation. This is a snippet from mine, but you should really make your own. "Prior to May 11th 2012, I placed x funds on deposit at Bitcoinica via y means. On May 11th 2012, Zhou Tong, the founder and to the best of my knowledge owner of the company, alleged in a public forum that his institution "Bitcoinica" had suffered a break in by an unknown attacker who stole deposits of BTC 18,547 and that he would be taking the website offline temporarily to address the situation. This break-in and theft while widely reported in the media was never reported to police or any other authority to the best of my knowledge and therefore appears to be nothing more than a ruse. This is supported by the fact that since that time no communication from any official channel has occurred. However through unofficial channels, i.e. the forum where the original posting occurred, they announced a refund process and subsequent claims page. Filling out the claims page resulted in an email (see attached) that was completely devoid of relevant information. They have also posted 2 updates on their home page at www.bitcoinica.com, which go into greater detail about the alleged break in (see attached). Nevertheless, they currently state in unofficial channels that my funds valued at $x are no longer available to me, because they have purportedly lost all records. This is theft as I can easily document all deposits and withdrawals to them (see attached) and have done so via the methods that they themselves have proscribed."
The important thing to remember is to not make any allegation you cannot support with documentation. The more prepared you are ahead of time, the more likely the complaint is to be taken seriously. Also avoid using emotion and emotionally charged words, these carry no weight in investigative work and if you come off as too emotional, you probably won't get the results you expected.
When you file your complaint, make sure that the detective who takes it, understands that the fraud and theft span multiple agencies & jurisdictions and that you would like a copy sent to the Auckland police department since they have direct jurisdiction over the owner. Also be sure to get a copy to your State Attorney Generals office, division of consumer protection or it's equivalent in your area and the local FBI office. Since it is a financial crime, the allegation can prevent them from obtaining work in the financial services sector and defrauding others in the future.
Once you have filed your complaint you will get a case number. Make a copy of your full complaint and your case number and submit them to http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
This will get the FBI & FTC involved on a broader perspective than just your local office. If ic3 receives enough complaints they can take broader criminal action and co-operate internationally to make life very uncomfortable for them. While it may seem strange to involve the FBI, there is a reason for it. Just having your name attached to an open "Federal" case in the USA can make travel very difficult anywhere in the world. Furthermore mutual co-operation treaties mean that all bank accounts owned by these criminals can be frozen while the matter is under investigation, pretty much no matter where they are in the world, but again that's federal action.
At this point, you need to make sure you gathered business cards from everyone you spoke to as you were filing these. Call them at least once a week to check on the status of the case. Let them know any new information that comes to light and generally speaking let them know you aren't going to go away but you'll be glad to testify against these guys.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I sincerely hope you will take the time and effort to file a criminal complaint against them. The more of us that do this, the faster we will see action on it.
Thus far repeated attempts to contact Bitcoinica regarding a refund from them have met with nothing more than structured silence.
I promised in a previous comment on this thread that I would explain the process to begin legal proceedings against Bitcoinica and this post is my attempt to fulfill my promise.
Be aware that this is not intended as legal advice.
What I am about to explain is primarily applicable to United States citizens, however the legal logic, reasoning and process is somewhat universal, because what they are doing now is theft, breach of trust and malfeasance, which most countries in the world do have laws against.
First you must by now be aware that due to the way Bitcoinica was structured, civil proceedings are going to be difficult.
However this does not mean that all is lost. The behavior shown thus far by Bitcoinica, and Bitcoin Consultancy does in fact appear to rise to the level of a criminal enterprise. Therefore an active criminal investigation is warranted. Once there has been action on a criminal complaint most of the evidence uncovered becomes a matter of public record and then can be used in civil litigation as well.
In the United States the primary charge to seek is one of Wire Fraud, 18 USC : 1343
"Whoever, having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, transmits or causes to be transmitted by means of wire, radio, or television communication in interstate or foreign commerce, any writings, signs, signals, pictures, or sounds for the purpose of executing such scheme or artifice, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. If the violation affects a financial institution, such person shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both."
Which leads us to a question of jurisdiction. You should go down to your local police station and file an official complaint. The local police are unlikely to be able to do much more than take your complaint. However that complaint is your key to the rest of this. Before you file your complaint though make sure to have all of your ducks in a row. First gather any supporting evidence you have. This includes checking your bank if you deposited funds via wire, mtgox for mtgox codes etc. Deposits made by Bitcoin are easy enough to verify via BlockChain explorer.
A criminal complaint should answer the questions of who, what, where, when and how.
For the "who" you would be best served by naming the individuals involved thus far, especially those with a more public profile such as
Christopher HEASLIP (Owner of record according to http://www.business.govt.nz)
Flat 3, 10 Dorchester Street, Meadowbank, Auckland, 1072 , New Zealand
Also make sure to put in the complaint "D.B.A. Bitcoinica LP, DBA Bitcoinica Consultancy, DBA Core Credit Limited, DBA PushPay".
The rest is your specific allegation. This is a snippet from mine, but you should really make your own. "Prior to May 11th 2012, I placed x funds on deposit at Bitcoinica via y means. On May 11th 2012, Zhou Tong, the founder and to the best of my knowledge owner of the company, alleged in a public forum that his institution "Bitcoinica" had suffered a break in by an unknown attacker who stole deposits of BTC 18,547 and that he would be taking the website offline temporarily to address the situation. This break-in and theft while widely reported in the media was never reported to police or any other authority to the best of my knowledge and therefore appears to be nothing more than a ruse. This is supported by the fact that since that time no communication from any official channel has occurred. However through unofficial channels, i.e. the forum where the original posting occurred, they announced a refund process and subsequent claims page. Filling out the claims page resulted in an email (see attached) that was completely devoid of relevant information. They have also posted 2 updates on their home page at www.bitcoinica.com, which go into greater detail about the alleged break in (see attached). Nevertheless, they currently state in unofficial channels that my funds valued at $x are no longer available to me, because they have purportedly lost all records. This is theft as I can easily document all deposits and withdrawals to them (see attached) and have done so via the methods that they themselves have proscribed."
The important thing to remember is to not make any allegation you cannot support with documentation. The more prepared you are ahead of time, the more likely the complaint is to be taken seriously. Also avoid using emotion and emotionally charged words, these carry no weight in investigative work and if you come off as too emotional, you probably won't get the results you expected.
When you file your complaint, make sure that the detective who takes it, understands that the fraud and theft span multiple agencies & jurisdictions and that you would like a copy sent to the Auckland police department since they have direct jurisdiction over the owner. Also be sure to get a copy to your State Attorney Generals office, division of consumer protection or it's equivalent in your area and the local FBI office. Since it is a financial crime, the allegation can prevent them from obtaining work in the financial services sector and defrauding others in the future.
Once you have filed your complaint you will get a case number. Make a copy of your full complaint and your case number and submit them to http://www.ic3.gov/default.aspx
This will get the FBI & FTC involved on a broader perspective than just your local office. If ic3 receives enough complaints they can take broader criminal action and co-operate internationally to make life very uncomfortable for them. While it may seem strange to involve the FBI, there is a reason for it. Just having your name attached to an open "Federal" case in the USA can make travel very difficult anywhere in the world. Furthermore mutual co-operation treaties mean that all bank accounts owned by these criminals can be frozen while the matter is under investigation, pretty much no matter where they are in the world, but again that's federal action.
At this point, you need to make sure you gathered business cards from everyone you spoke to as you were filing these. Call them at least once a week to check on the status of the case. Let them know any new information that comes to light and generally speaking let them know you aren't going to go away but you'll be glad to testify against these guys.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I sincerely hope you will take the time and effort to file a criminal complaint against them. The more of us that do this, the faster we will see action on it.
June 09, 2012, 08:23:36 AM
You're not going to be able to please everybody, let alone everybody all at once, that much is absolutely clear. So, why not start with what you're most certain of now and then work your way down to the ones that seem fishy. The way things are going, everybody is going to lose because eventually somebody will start legal action, and then a bunch more will join in, all the money will get spent on legal fees, and nobody will get any money back. That will be an absolute blight to the reputation of everyone involved in bitcoinica's management.
Give those who made verifiable claims and are willing to take what they can get as much money as you can so that, at the very least, we don't get taken down with the sinking ship bitcoinica. That's as close to a win as any of you are going to get in this situation as you'll have at least saved a bit of your reputation (when I say "you" I don't mean "Zhoutong", I mean everyone managing bitcoinica).
Give those who made verifiable claims and are willing to take what they can get as much money as you can so that, at the very least, we don't get taken down with the sinking ship bitcoinica. That's as close to a win as any of you are going to get in this situation as you'll have at least saved a bit of your reputation (when I say "you" I don't mean "Zhoutong", I mean everyone managing bitcoinica).
June 09, 2012, 08:16:06 AM
If you trust me personally, I can confirm that at the time of this post, at least 75% of total claimed value (even including the identified fake ones) is present in Bitcoinica's accounts.
Zhou, although I trust you personally (and appreciate the support you continue to provide to the best of your abilities) it is beside the point since it is unclear if you are even an official Bitcoinica representative or employee at this point. What I am afraid of is that Bitcoinica will use customer deposits to cover legal expenses.
There have been too many mistakes made by too many people and too many questions left unanswered. My goodwill towards Bitcoinica has pretty much reached rock bottom. So unless they will guarantee not to use customer deposits for anything other than customer refunds, I'd rather deal with a trusted 3rd party escrow agent.
June 09, 2012, 08:12:36 AM
If direct refunds are still not an option, can you guys at least send the customer deposits into escrow until this mess is sorted out?
If you trust me personally, I can confirm that at the time of this post, at least 75% of total claimed value (even including the identified fake ones) is present in Bitcoinica's accounts.
The team has considered to use a legal settlor to resolve this issue, but some of us believe that the cost is too high for everyone and the settlor may not have the insight to identify fake claims accurately.
I guess what's unclear to me is why clearly not fake claims aren't being processed. I filed a claim, then I sent an email with transaction dates and transaction IDs for the bitcoins I deposited into Bitcoinica from MtGox. Additionally, those transaction happened several months ago and the bitcoins I had in bitcoinica were not in any positions. I believe I was also verified on bitcoinica. I can't imagine it being difficult to verify those details. Not only that, I even fudged a bit on my claim in bitcoinica's favor.
I'm sure there are others with even more detailed information, and I simply don't understand why those claims haven't been acted upon, even if it's only to return %75 of the verified claim.
June 09, 2012, 08:12:01 AM
If you have submitted valid claims on Bitcoinica website, you should expect your refunds directly from Bitcoinica.
That's the thing, Zhou, we don't expect refunds from Bitcoinica anymore.
And what makes you think THAT
Don't lose faith !
The mugu is not supposed to lose faith. He still waits for this millions ...
June 09, 2012, 08:06:18 AM
If you have submitted valid claims on Bitcoinica website, you should expect your refunds directly from Bitcoinica.
That's the thing, Zhou, we don't expect refunds from Bitcoinica anymore.
June 09, 2012, 08:05:17 AM
If direct refunds are still not an option, can you guys at least send the customer deposits into escrow until this mess is sorted out?
If you trust me personally, I can confirm that at the time of this post, at least 75% of total claimed value (even including the identified fake ones) is present in Bitcoinica's accounts.
The team has considered to use a legal settlor to resolve this issue, but some of us believe that the cost is too high for everyone and the settlor may not have the insight to identify fake claims accurately.
June 09, 2012, 08:02:25 AM
Zhou, I believe I have posted sufficient information publicly in this thread about who I am to allow you to confirm my claim.
Do you dispute any of the facts I have posted? Are the facts I have posted in any way insufficient to allow immediate processing of my claim.
If yes, what ones?
If not, then send the refund as per the information contained in my claim and the confirmation I have posted publicly in this forum, or explain why you are refusing to do so.
Please be sure to consider your reply carefully. Your response or lack thereof to this posting and all of your previous communication regarding this matter is being used as supporting evidence in a criminal complaint I am filing against you as an individual.
I am required at this point to state that "Any refund you provide will not prevent a criminal investigation from going forward, but may reflect favorably upon you. Your co-operation is appreciated."
To the others at Bitcoinica LP, you may believe that the corporate veil will protect you from civil liability. Registration in New Zealand as a Financial Services Provider, may make enjoining a class difficult. I do not dispute either of these facts at this time. However none of this protects you when you act in a criminal matter, act in bad faith or with malfeasance.
In line with my previous post on the topic; At this point I am putting you on notice that I am actively filing complaints and will continue to pursue criminal charges against your entire organization. The charges I am alleging are theft, wire fraud, identity fraud, investment fraud, misrepresentation of material facts, failure to return deposited or entrusted funds and racketeering.
My next post will be to inform the rest of the forum how they can begin the process of filing criminal complaints against Bitcoinica as well.
Do you dispute any of the facts I have posted? Are the facts I have posted in any way insufficient to allow immediate processing of my claim.
If yes, what ones?
If not, then send the refund as per the information contained in my claim and the confirmation I have posted publicly in this forum, or explain why you are refusing to do so.
Please be sure to consider your reply carefully. Your response or lack thereof to this posting and all of your previous communication regarding this matter is being used as supporting evidence in a criminal complaint I am filing against you as an individual.
I am required at this point to state that "Any refund you provide will not prevent a criminal investigation from going forward, but may reflect favorably upon you. Your co-operation is appreciated."
To the others at Bitcoinica LP, you may believe that the corporate veil will protect you from civil liability. Registration in New Zealand as a Financial Services Provider, may make enjoining a class difficult. I do not dispute either of these facts at this time. However none of this protects you when you act in a criminal matter, act in bad faith or with malfeasance.
In line with my previous post on the topic; At this point I am putting you on notice that I am actively filing complaints and will continue to pursue criminal charges against your entire organization. The charges I am alleging are theft, wire fraud, identity fraud, investment fraud, misrepresentation of material facts, failure to return deposited or entrusted funds and racketeering.
My next post will be to inform the rest of the forum how they can begin the process of filing criminal complaints against Bitcoinica as well.
I have no authority or ability to handle the refund for you. I was no longer the operator of Bitcoinica since April and I no longer own any financial interest of Bitcoinica since November last year. (I assume all operational responsibility until the take-over has happened. But after that, everyone knows that I'm not the sole operator of Bitcoinica.)
Also, keep in mind that Bitcoinica has always been held under a limited entity. It was held by xWaylab Inc., and then Bitcoinica LP (with a limited company as general partner). If your loss happened before January 2012, the responsible party would be xWaylab Inc., after that it would be Bitcoinica LP.
If you have submitted valid claims on Bitcoinica website, you should expect your refunds directly from Bitcoinica.
June 09, 2012, 07:47:44 AM
If direct refunds are still not an option, can you guys at least send the customer deposits into escrow until this mess is sorted out?
June 09, 2012, 07:09:18 AM
Cool story bro,
So where are the refunds?
So where are the refunds?
Hopefully they get done soon I think. One of the points outlined today by Tihan was:
"This is what I need from each of you today:
1) A sign of life that the claims processing has begun -- an announcement to that effect and/or actually paying people back
..."
So things are moving forwards now after the hiatus. Most people involved are in agreement on what needs to be done.
So? Can we have an update on what happened? Tihan said he wanted there to be an announcement or to see people start getting paid back. I'm seeing neither.
It's unbelievable how little we hear from you guys. Communication is mandatory! And for the 1000th time:
How are open positions going to get settled?
We can't even hedge our own freaking positions due to a lack of communication from you guys.
I'm glad we still have Zhoutong giving us information. He's handling this a whole lot better than you guys. Too bad he's no longer in charge, or this mess would have been solved already.
June 09, 2012, 07:02:53 AM
I foresee this happening on a large scale. They will have to deal with 20 plus different attacks. This will not end well. At least they have a good fund for legal defense.
Well that settles it, then. Nobody will get any money back. Ok, everyone who intends to file legal claims on that side of the room. Everyone else, move along, it's over.
Yes, I agree. Or it will at least be significantly less due to money being spend on legal fights. And this all could have been prevented by
assigning someone to provide proper communication between the company and its customers.
The incompetence they have shown so far baffles me.
June 09, 2012, 07:00:28 AM
Legal battles are to be expected with the way they are handling this.
I'm beginning to become so angry with the lack of communication.
This is just ridiculous. I've never been treated so badly by a company. A company that made good money
off of my trades. I'm seriously at a loss of words about this entire situation. Sigh
I'm beginning to become so angry with the lack of communication.
This is just ridiculous. I've never been treated so badly by a company. A company that made good money
off of my trades. I'm seriously at a loss of words about this entire situation. Sigh
June 09, 2012, 06:59:56 AM
I foresee this happening on a large scale. They will have to deal with 20 plus different attacks. This will not end well. At least they have a good fund for legal defense.
Well that settles it, then. Nobody will get any money back. Ok, everyone who intends to file legal claims on that side of the room. Everyone else, move along, it's over.
June 09, 2012, 06:50:01 AM
I believe I have posted sufficient information publicly in this thread about who I am to allow you to confirm my claim.
Do you dispute any of the facts I have posted? Are the facts I have posted in any way insufficient to allow immediate processing of my claim.
If yes, what ones?
If not, then send the refund as per the information contained in my claim and the confirmation I have posted publicly in this forum, or explain why you are refusing to do so.
Please be sure to consider your reply carefully. Your response or lack thereof to this posting and all of your previous communication regarding this matter is being used as supporting evidence in a criminal complaint I am filing against you as an individual.
I am required at this point to state that "Any refund you provide will not prevent a criminal investigation from going forward, but may reflect favorably upon you. Your co-operation is appreciated."
To the others at Bitcoinica, you may believe that the corporate veil will protect you from civil liability. Registration in New Zealand as a Financial Services Provider, may make enjoining a class difficult. I do not dispute either of these facts at this time. However none of this protects you when you act in a criminal matter, act in bad faith or with malfeasance.
In line with my previous post on the topic; At this point I am putting you on notice that I am actively filing complaints and will continue to pursue criminal charges against your entire organization. The charges I am alleging are theft, wire fraud, identity fraud, investment fraud, misrepresentation of material facts, failure to return deposited or entrusted funds and racketeering.
My next post will be to inform the rest of the forum how they can begin the process of filing criminal complaints against Bitcoinica as well.
***
I have edited this post to remove accusations against Zhou, after further research I determined that I was incorrect and he appears to just be caught up in something bigger than himself. I apologize. See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.952523 for specifics.
***
Do you dispute any of the facts I have posted? Are the facts I have posted in any way insufficient to allow immediate processing of my claim.
If yes, what ones?
If not, then send the refund as per the information contained in my claim and the confirmation I have posted publicly in this forum, or explain why you are refusing to do so.
Please be sure to consider your reply carefully. Your response or lack thereof to this posting and all of your previous communication regarding this matter is being used as supporting evidence in a criminal complaint I am filing against you as an individual.
I am required at this point to state that "Any refund you provide will not prevent a criminal investigation from going forward, but may reflect favorably upon you. Your co-operation is appreciated."
To the others at Bitcoinica, you may believe that the corporate veil will protect you from civil liability. Registration in New Zealand as a Financial Services Provider, may make enjoining a class difficult. I do not dispute either of these facts at this time. However none of this protects you when you act in a criminal matter, act in bad faith or with malfeasance.
In line with my previous post on the topic; At this point I am putting you on notice that I am actively filing complaints and will continue to pursue criminal charges against your entire organization. The charges I am alleging are theft, wire fraud, identity fraud, investment fraud, misrepresentation of material facts, failure to return deposited or entrusted funds and racketeering.
My next post will be to inform the rest of the forum how they can begin the process of filing criminal complaints against Bitcoinica as well.
***
I have edited this post to remove accusations against Zhou, after further research I determined that I was incorrect and he appears to just be caught up in something bigger than himself. I apologize. See https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.952523 for specifics.
***
June 09, 2012, 04:59:55 AM
From www.bitcoinica.com:
Seems to me there should be nothing holding you back:
Or is there anything else that Bitcoinica customers need to be aware of? If so please clarify.
Yeah, Hopefully... Who is Bitcoinica's legal representation anyway?
Other questions:
3 June 23:20: We're adding extra fields to the claims database (should be finished soon), we have received the funds from Tihan to make the initial payouts. Then once that's done, the first round of payments can be finished.
Seems to me there should be nothing holding you back:
- June 3: funds received.
- June 5: database done.
- June 7: authorization done.
Or is there anything else that Bitcoinica customers need to be aware of? If so please clarify.
Hopefully someone acting on proper legal representation can respond.
Yeah, Hopefully... Who is Bitcoinica's legal representation anyway?
Other questions:
- Is Zhou an Bitcoinica LP employee or not? Since the has access to claims, funds, AML and financial records he'd better be.
- Where is Donald in all of this? I assume he is acting CEO.
- Why is Bitcoinica not responding to user inquiries over email?
- Why was help.bitcoinica.com taken down? (as it was separate from the app)
- Why are updates not posted on the Bitcoinica website?
- When will the claims process close?
- How is Bitcoinica dealing with open positions?
- Why the secrecy?
June 09, 2012, 04:22:00 AM
What about the original topic, the payout: when will it start?
The continued silence on this question is especially annoying when the profiles of the general partners show them as having been online (phantomcircuit's last activity was only a couple of hours ago) recently. It's pretty galling for Bitcoinica customers to see Patrick posting in the Intersango thread but ignoring this one.
Should we ask him over there?
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