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Topic: Police State? - page 22. (Read 25908 times)

legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
April 20, 2013, 05:44:49 PM
oh hey it looks like james sourced the cell phone bit

Yea, he had a satellite phone.  I do not disagree. But I don't see evidence he used that phone to "call in the attack" as you seem to suggest.

rofl i would never suggest such a thing. Surely you understand by this point that i do not subscribe to the official conspiracy theory?
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 501
April 20, 2013, 05:41:59 PM
oh hey it looks like james sourced the cell phone bit

Yea, he had a satellite phone.  I do not disagree. But I don't see evidence he used that phone to "call in the attack" as you seem to suggest.  I think I can make this easier...

Your use of the word "directed" is the problem for me, not the fact that UBL was "behind the attack". Change the word to "approved" and do not say he "called it in on cellphone" and I will agree.  *Maybe* I can move onto the second sentence.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
April 20, 2013, 05:33:10 PM
Well, as an American I disagree that the vast majority of Americans thing UBL was on a cell phone directing the operation and would challenge you to provide a source for that information.  Most think, correctly, that he was 'behind it' but that is different from actually directing the operation.  I think it's pretty well understood that he gave a blessing from a cave somewhere and a couple years later the plan was enacted. 

I'm certain that a small number of Americans continue to believe Saddam Hussein was behind 911, though I do not have the statistics to back up that claim. 

oh hey it looks like james sourced the cell phone bit

http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=a96ladensatellite#a96ladensatellite
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
April 20, 2013, 05:09:52 PM
Well, as an American I disagree that the vast majority of Americans thing UBL was on a cell phone directing the operation and would challenge you to provide a source for that information.  Most think, correctly, that he was 'behind it' but that is different from actually directing the operation.  I think it's pretty well understood that he gave a blessing from a cave somewhere and a couple years later the plan was enacted.  

I'm certain that a small number of Americans continue to believe Saddam Hussein was behind 911, though I do not have the statistics to back up that claim.  

I dont need statistics i live here. I could ask 10 people if they believe osama bin laden directed the attacks on 911 and 10 of them would say yes. If i further asked how they believe he was in communication with the plain jackers (which is implied in the origial question) they would say "idk cell phone or something?" If you dont believe me try it. If you come back here and say you tried it and some significant number said no than i will know you are lying because i know the sorts of people who live here.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 501
April 20, 2013, 05:06:20 PM
Well, as an American I disagree that the vast majority of Americans thing UBL was on a cell phone directing the operation and would challenge you to provide a source for that information.  Most think, correctly, that he was 'behind it' but that is different from actually directing the operation.  I think it's pretty well understood that he gave a blessing from a cave somewhere and a couple years later the plan was enacted. 

I'm certain that a small number of Americans continue to believe Saddam Hussein was behind 911, though I do not have the statistics to back up that claim. 
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
April 20, 2013, 05:00:46 PM
The point is atleast 95% of americas believe UBL did infact direct this operation because that is what they have been told by the media.

95% number is pure Speculation.

Quote
I asked you to question this narrative and you do, so good for you. What else do you want from me?

Nothing.  I am happy to consider any and all facts in either case.  I honestly did not read past the first sentence of the quoted text because it is not at all how I see the events of that day.

its not pure speculation ill tell you right now as a point of fact that it almost certainly isnt exactly 95% of Americans. My point was to say the vast majority. if it helps ill go back and edit 95% out of my post and replace it with "the vast majority"
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 501
April 20, 2013, 04:49:57 PM
The point is atleast 95% of americas believe UBL did infact direct this operation because that is what they have been told by the media.

95% number is pure Speculation.

Quote
I asked you to question this narrative and you do, so good for you. What else do you want from me?

Nothing.  I am happy to consider any and all facts in either case.  I honestly did not read past the first sentence of the quoted text because it is not at all how I see the events of that day.
legendary
Activity: 2324
Merit: 1125
April 20, 2013, 04:49:24 PM
Fox news!



A misnomer if there ever was one!
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
April 20, 2013, 04:46:53 PM
"I find this to be a fairly accurate representation of the official narrative."

I find the first sentence so far from the official narrative that it screams conspiracy theory.  There is no indication anywhere that UBL DIRECTED this operation.  So let's just start with the first sentence if you'd like to have an actual discussion.

The point is atleast the vast majority of americas believe UBL did infact direct this operation because that is what they have been told by the media. I asked you to question this narrative and you do, so good for you. What else do you want from me?
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 501
April 20, 2013, 04:45:04 PM
"I find this to be a fairly accurate representation of the official narrative."

I find the first sentence so far from the official narrative that it screams conspiracy theory.  There is no indication anywhere that UBL DIRECTED this operation.  So let's just start with the first sentence if you'd like to have an actual discussion.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
April 20, 2013, 04:43:26 PM
reread my above, I've edited for clarity then ask again.

all i can gather from it is that you do infact question the official narrative. good for you.
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
April 20, 2013, 04:41:23 PM
Quote from: James Corbett

On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters directed by a man on dialysis in a cave fortress halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop

Sorry, but I asked to stick to facts.  I can't get past the first sentence of this non-sense.  There is not now nor was there ever ANY indication that UBL "directed" this operation.  Unless you mean he listened to a plan some idiots brought him and he gave the plan his blessing while in a cave.

Facts or it didn't happen.




I find this to be a fairly accurate representation of the official narrative. If you are trying to argue against me by saying that the official narative is false than you are not arguing against me at all, you are on my side. Or are you trying to say that this is not the narrative that has been told by the mainstream media to the vast majority of Americans?
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 501
April 20, 2013, 04:36:21 PM
myrkul - This user is currently ignored.



USA is still a police state, so what are you blabbering about?

You are entitled to your opinion.  As I said we in America like to say opinions are like assholes, everybody has one.  The USA is not a police state, though.  If it were the DEA would be smashing the doors down of all 500 state regulated marijuana dispensaries.  They are not because Colorado is experimenting with Democracy and the Fed will not interfere. (Evidenced by four years of non-intervention by the DEA in our heavily regulated state industry which is federally and internationally illegal).


Onto more silliness:

Quote from: James Corbett

On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters directed by a man on dialysis in a cave fortress halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop

Sorry, but I asked to stick to facts.  I can't get past the first sentence of this non-sense.  There is not now nor was there ever ANY indication that UBL "directed" this operation.  Unless you mean he listened to a plan some idiots brought him and he gave the plan his blessing while in a cave.

Facts or it didn't happen.


Quote
sophisticated penetration of the most heavily-defended airspace in the world

Yea, sure that's what happened... uh huh.  This description remains with Perl Harbor NOT 911.  Hijacking a plane is NOT "penetration" of the airspace.  ("cookoo, cookoo")
legendary
Activity: 1722
Merit: 1217
April 20, 2013, 04:32:20 PM
Stick to the facts, let's not speculate.

I dont suppose you are willing to apply this same rigor and skepticism to the official 911 conspiracy theory are you?

Sure am.  Seen all the conspiracy stuff and I believe the buildings fell due to the planes hitting them.  I saw that horrific event on live TV too, for what it's worth.


Fox news!

Listen to him everybody, he wants to be heard and he acts as if he has something to say.  From this amazing post we learn that he must think I watch Fox news.  "and The Associated Press contributed to this report".   And hilarity ensued.

No one said anything about the buildings not being brought down by the planes that clearly hit them. What i asked was whether you had applied the same rigor to this story

Quote from: James Corbett

On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters directed by a man on dialysis in a cave fortress halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop directed the most sophisticated penetration of the most heavily-defended airspace in the world, overpowering the passengers and the military combat-trained pilots on 4 commercial aircraft before flying those planes wildly off course for over an hour without being molested by a single fighter interceptor.

These 19 hijackers, devout religious fundamentalists who liked to drink alcohol, snort cocaine, and live with pink-haired strippers, managed to knock down 3 buildings with 2 planes in New York, while in Washington a pilot who couldn’t handle a single engine Cessna was able to fly a 757 in an 8,000 foot descending 270 degree corskscrew turn to come exactly level with the ground, hitting the Pentagon in the budget analyst office where DoD staffers were working on the mystery of the 2.3 trillion dollars that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had announced “missing” from the Pentagon’s coffers in a press conference the day before, on September 10, 2001.

Luckily, the news anchors knew who did it within minutes, the pundits knew within hours, the Administration knew within the day, and the evidence literally fell into the FBI’s lap. But for some reason a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists demanded an investigation into the greatest attack on American soil in history.

The investigation was delayed, underfunded, set up to fail, a conflict of interest and a cover up from start to finish. It was based on testimony extracted through torture, the records of which were destroyed. It failed to mention the existence of WTC7, Able Danger, Ptech, Sibel Edmonds, OBL and the CIA, and the drills of hijacked aircraft being flown into buildings that were being simulated at the precise same time that those events were actually happening. It was lied to by the Pentagon, the CIA, the Bush Administration and as for Bush and Cheney…well, no one knows what they told it because they testified in secret, off the record, not under oath and behind closed doors. It didn’t bother to look at who funded the attacks because that question is of “little practical significance“. Still, the 9/11 Commission did brilliantly, answering all of the questions the public had (except most of the victims’ family members’ questions) and pinned blame on all the people responsible (although no one so much as lost their job), determining the attacks were “a failure of imagination” because “I don’t think anyone could envision flying airplanes into buildings ” except the Pentagon and FEMA and NORAD and the NRO.

The DIA destroyed 2.5 TB of data on Able Danger, but that’s OK because it probably wasn’t important.

The SEC destroyed their records on the investigation into the insider trading before the attacks, but that’s OK because destroying the records of the largest investigation in SEC history is just part of routine record keeping.

NIST has classified the data that they used for their model of WTC7′s collapse, but that’s OK because knowing how they made their model of that collapse would “jeopardize public safety“.

The FBI has argued that all material related to their investigation of 9/11 should be kept secret from the public, but that’s OK because the FBI probably has nothing to hide.

This man never existed, nor is anything he had to say worthy of your attention, and if you say otherwise you are a paranoid conspiracy theorist and deserve to be shunned by all of humanity. Likewise him, him, him, and her. (and her and her and him).

Osama Bin Laden lived in a cave fortress in the hills of Afghanistan, but somehow got away. Then he was hiding out in Tora Bora but somehow got away. Then he lived in Abottabad for years, taunting the most comprehensive intelligence dragnet employing the most sophisticated technology in the history of the world for 10 years, releasing video after video with complete impunity (and getting younger and younger as he did so), before finally being found in a daring SEAL team raid which wasn’t recorded on video, in which he didn’t resist or use his wife as a human shield, and in which these crack special forces operatives panicked and killed this unarmed man, supposedly the best source of intelligence about those dastardly terrorists on the planet. Then they dumped his body in the ocean before telling anyone about it. Then a couple dozen of that team’s members died in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.


as you had some of the equally wacky stories proposed by the non main stream conspiracy theorists
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
April 20, 2013, 04:27:57 PM
Yes, I see that, but still no mention of pip-bombs, nor have you yet told me what they are.

And... Ignored. 


I see. So you claim that they were dropping these "pip-bombs," which warranted tanks, then you refuse to tell me what they are to back up your claim, instead blathering on about pipe bombs, which is all the news story you quoted mentioned, either. And now, you're ignoring me because I expect you to back up, or at least explain, your claims?

Good idea. If you can't see the fnords, they can't hurt you.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 502
April 20, 2013, 04:24:19 PM

Did what?

USA is still a police state, so what are you blabbering about?
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 501
April 20, 2013, 04:23:27 PM
Then, how the fuck would you know?

How would I know what?


You tell me.

I did. 

How would I know what?  What witnesses and the press wrote?  Because I read it.  In the absence of anything else I tend to gravitate toward that which exists rather than that which people might imagine.

Not sure what country you live in but here in America the press is a powerful tool that fairly disseminates information to the masses, though it can show bias.

hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 502
April 20, 2013, 04:23:12 PM
Yes, I see that, but still no mention of pip-bombs, nor have you yet told me what they are.

And... Ignored.   



Quoted Cheesy.
hero member
Activity: 770
Merit: 502
April 20, 2013, 04:22:27 PM
Then, how the fuck would you know?

How would I know what?


You tell me.
hero member
Activity: 924
Merit: 501
April 20, 2013, 04:22:24 PM
Yes, I see that, but still no mention of pip-bombs, nor have you yet told me what they are.

And... Ignored.   

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