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Topic: [POLL] Should Butterfly Labs (BFL) get a Scammer tag? - page 7. (Read 28063 times)

hero member
Activity: 546
Merit: 500
Maybe I have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone actually state any contractual obligations that were ignored by BFL.  I think this may greatly help your case.

If there are none, it is possible that they are abusing the loose obligations placed upon them.  Even if they are not specifically violating their agreement, at some point the line has to be drawn.  I think that is what this poll is asking.

Claiming they would deliver a product by the end of October in early October was fraud, plain and simple. There is no way they could have actually delivered anything at that point and they knew it. They would never be able to convince a court that they were that clueless about the time it takes to design an ASIC and get it up and running, test it, manufacture it, and ship it.

The funny thing is that they probably actually were pretty fast in designing their product when compared to others who have done so. It was just all the lies that made it look like they were so late.

There needs to be a class action lawsuit, or investigation by the attorney general to see what they were really intending when they announce a late October shipping date. My guess is that it was done to spur on more pre-orders and scare away their competitors. That is illegal. I bet a subpoena of their e-mails and internal memos would should that is exactly what they were doing.

Thus, I believe they deserve the scammer tag.
full member
Activity: 182
Merit: 100
Swiss Money all around me!
Quote
4. When will the BitForce SC be available, and how fast are they?
Our ASIC based products ranging from 3.5 GH/s to 1,000 GH/s are currently scheduled for availability in October, 2012.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1000
Crackpot Idealist
Regardless of scam accusations, they need to ship soon or they will collapse under their own weight now that ASICMINER is taking open orders even though it's at 10x the amount.  Even though I don't have the money, I would rather spend 10x the amount instead of waiting an unspecified amount of time.

Agreed!
member
Activity: 85
Merit: 10
Regardless of scam accusations, they need to ship soon or they will collapse under their own weight now that ASICMINER is taking open orders even though it's at 10x the amount.  Even though I don't have the money, I would rather spend 10x the amount instead of waiting an unspecified amount of time.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
... at some point the line has to be drawn. 

The line will draw itself. Once difficulty is so high that BFL devices won't make any money people will stop pre-ordering. And start requesting refunds in masses.

Until then: Greed will fuel BFLs order queue.

I think a season of winter in bitcoin is coming...

Not sure how long it will be but that cant be good for BFL customers.
hero member
Activity: 1162
Merit: 500
... at some point the line has to be drawn. 

The line will draw itself. Once difficulty is so high that BFL devices won't make any money people will stop pre-ordering. And start requesting refunds in masses.

Until then: Greed will fuel BFLs order queue.
sr. member
Activity: 308
Merit: 250
decentralizedhashing.com
Maybe I have missed it, but I haven't seen anyone actually state any contractual obligations that were ignored by BFL.  I think this may greatly help your case.

If there are none, it is possible that they are abusing the loose obligations placed upon them.  Even if they are not specifically violating their agreement, at some point the line has to be drawn.  I think that is what this poll is asking.
vip
Activity: 756
Merit: 503
BFL might deliver but the unbelievable amount of lies deserve a scammer tag.
newbie
Activity: 35
Merit: 0
Did you actually pay in BTC, or just pay through BitPay? Cause if you actually paid with BTC, then yeah, you got fucked.

They're one in the same.

How buying a product from Butterfly Labs works:

Method #1: Paypal
Log on to Paypal >> Pay for the preorder through debit or credit >> BFL gets your cash

Method #2: Wire Transfer
Get bank info from BFL >> Contact your bank and send money to the account >> Wait a week or two >> BFL gets your cash

Method #3: Bitcoins
BFL sends you to BitPay >> BitPay calculates the cost in BTC >> Send BTC to BitPay >> BitPay instantly converts those coins to cash >> BFL gets your cash

The common theme here is that Butterfly labs doesn't deal in Bitcoins...

Yeah, that's what the website said, but I didn't know if they had changed it in the time since he bought the ASIC. I thought maybe at one time you could send straight BTC to BFL w/o BitPay as the middle-man.

I assume your response means that they have not.
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
Did you actually pay in BTC, or just pay through BitPay? Cause if you actually paid with BTC, then yeah, you got fucked.

They're one in the same.

How buying a product from Butterfly Labs works:

Method #1: Paypal
Log on to Paypal >> Pay for the preorder through debit or credit >> BFL gets your cash

Method #2: Wire Transfer
Get bank info from BFL >> Contact your bank and send money to the account >> Wait a week or two >> BFL gets your cash

Method #3: Bitcoins
BFL sends you to BitPay >> BitPay calculates the cost in BTC >> Send BTC to BitPay >> BitPay instantly converts those coins to cash >> BFL gets your cash

The common theme here is that Butterfly labs doesn't deal in Bitcoins...
newbie
Activity: 35
Merit: 0
I voted yes after receiving a refund of about 6BTC when I wrote them a mail asking back the 70BTC i paid back in September based on their lies at that time (I was stupid enough to provide a btc address in this mail).

So, I missed the opportunity to sell my 70BTC with good profit during the bubble and I dont have an order anymore. They refuse to reinstate the order now as well.

Soooo...let me get this straight...you paid BTC70 in September (valued at, what, $700-840 or so..assuming $10-12 a coin)...and you hate BFL because they didn't give you $17,000+ back during the bubble?

Are you retarded?

Did you actually pay in BTC, or just pay through BitPay? Cause if you actually paid with BTC, then yeah, you got fucked.
legendary
Activity: 1610
Merit: 1000
Crackpot Idealist
despite public poll showing that BFL should get a scammer tag, Theymos and mods have not done anything to coerce BFL into doing what they say they will do.

1. Pay charity bet.

2. Deliver devices to all customers

shit, i would settle for just a percentage of customers. It's a good thing I am a practicing drunk or I might be upset about waiting seven @#&&*!^% months and counting for a coffee warmer...
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
despite public poll showing that BFL should get a scammer tag, Theymos and mods have not done anything to coerce BFL into doing what they say they will do.

1. Pay charity bet.

2. Deliver devices to all customers
legendary
Activity: 1190
Merit: 1000
I voted yes after receiving a refund of about 6BTC when I wrote them a mail asking back the 70BTC i paid back in September based on their lies at that time (I was stupid enough to provide a btc address in this mail).

So, I missed the opportunity to sell my 70BTC with good profit during the bubble and I dont have an order anymore. They refuse to reinstate the order now as well.

Soooo...let me get this straight...you paid BTC70 in September (valued at, what, $700-840 or so..assuming $10-12 a coin)...and you hate BFL because they didn't give you $17,000+ back during the bubble?

Are you retarded?

He already said he ordered from BFL. Tongue
legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
I voted yes after receiving a refund of about 6BTC when I wrote them a mail asking back the 70BTC i paid back in September based on their lies at that time (I was stupid enough to provide a btc address in this mail).

So, I missed the opportunity to sell my 70BTC with good profit during the bubble and I dont have an order anymore. They refuse to reinstate the order now as well.

Soooo...let me get this straight...you paid BTC70 in September (valued at, what, $700-840 or so..assuming $10-12 a coin)...and you hate BFL because they didn't give you $17,000+ back during the bubble?

Are you retarded?
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
I voted yes after receiving a refund of about 6BTC when I wrote them a mail asking back the 70BTC i paid back in September based on their lies at that time (I was stupid enough to provide a btc address in this mail).

So, I missed the opportunity to sell my 70BTC with good profit during the bubble and I dont have an order anymore. They refuse to reinstate the order now as well.

I hate BFL and will tell everybody not to buy anything from them. They suck at everything and I hope for higher justice now.

 
member
Activity: 72
Merit: 10
Hey Josh,
 
Who killed the FPGA market with bullshit like 1w/GH/s and dumping prices and failed to deliver?
Who promised 1000 BTC to charity if fails to achieve the power goal?
Shut the fuck up and DELIVER or REFUND or go to RESIGN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (you and your bosses)
member
Activity: 287
Merit: 10
They promise customers that they can make USD 25,000 in three months by buying one of their 50GHs units.

They fail to point out the simple truth that difficulty levels will increase each two weeks, and that customers ordering today may receive any time from August onwards by which time by which time this profit expectation will have vanished into thin air, and that they are unlikely to even recoup the costs of the unit.

This is unethical and will damage their reputation, that is even further than the considerable delay has already caused.

Watch the number of people caught out in their Ponzi scheme cancelling orders just before the 45 day deadline for PayPal buyer protection!
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
They have delivered FGPAs in the past, with ongoing support for those products.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
Def the scammer tag.
Room mate purchased a jalapeno to hook up to a solar panel setup. But with new power requirements it likely won't work with the solar panel. They have been making promises over and over... they keep advertising as if the product is actually for sale... that is just bait and switch.

Even if they ship the product, at last, they should have a scammer tag in my opinion. You scam some one, you are a scammer, even if you come clean.
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