Topic: [prediction] Next spike $560,000 14 {<-oops!} months from now (2017 Update!) - page 24. (Read 71514 times)

That's right we aren't at the lowest price yet because EVERYDAY will be a new low... & considering how you're posting under everything I do, Im pretty sure you're trolling me. Im saving people massive amounts of money, my customers didn't lose out on this amazing 60% drop in price we had but Im sure you did. GLTA

We arent even at the lowest price of the year yet. Why would anyone in their right mind trust someone on an internet forum, especially an odious little troll like you? 

Done deal, We just broke 350... Trust me 340 will be broken before the weekends even done. Do you notice how many times you changed your price target??? You're promoting people to lose a lot of money. We need to keep selling until the mega miners close down! Stop denying it!!!

^ petty internet cash as Nagle called it.

Hey Chuckee, FWIW I think you're an "inadvertent troll" (not being trolly intentionally but still... end result).

So I hesitated to reply in this thread at first (not wanting to feed the troll) but then I reconsidered, because of what you said there: about bitcoin not being useful for average people.

I actually used to be concerned about this idea, because YES on it's FACE, at first glance & only superficially considered, it DOES appear that this MIGHT be true!

And THAT, yes, would possibly mean "disaster" and bitcoin's eventual total failure.

But I've come to believe it's not true, for several significant reasons.

You're right that nobody's "buying bitcoin so they can go shopping online" with it.

You're right, and YES "there's no point" because that is NOT THE POINT.

The thing about bitcoin that even "Bitcoin Believers" don't always really GET (including ME, at first) is that bitcoin will take it's place in global e-commerce, even slowly and gradually and step by step, just because of WHAT IT IS.

Case in point?  ME and my experience recently.

I own a lot of bitcoin: been buying more and more, as much as I can manage, even as the price has been falling since early this year.  My dollar cost average is in the $625 range so I'm quite a bit in the RED at the moment, which sucks, but even so I'm still looking to buy more.

Despite this fact that I am SITTING ON a lot of bitcoin, I don't actually USE it that much. 

So... yes, you're right that it seems like it might be not very useful to most normal people.  I've thought of that, as you said, already before and worried about it, and worried about what it might MEAN.

I use my bitcoin usually only to fool around online in some of the bitcoin casino sites, winning or losing a few dollars here and there playing a little blackjack in my spare time (which, in itself, is much easier and cheaper to do at home online versus going to the local casino a couple days a month... and even in THAT I am pretty sure bitcoin has saved me some money, since I'd rather win/lose $10 total playing fractions of a penny per hand, than $100 or more playing $5-$15 per hand on a real card game in a brick and mortar casino... LOL but, anyway, I digress).

So... then something happened, one day, just a little while ago... something happened that made a LIGHT BULB go off over my head.

I was reading an online story about how the legendary old-school hacker "Captain Crunch" (of Jobs & Wozniak's bluebox fame) has been having medical problems lately, and how someone had set up an anonymous donation page for him.  Going there to check it out I noticed the donation page INCLUDED A BITCOIN OPTION.

Without hardly even thinking about it, I immediately clicked over a couple bucks worth of BTC to help out Captain Crunch.

Honestly, I zapped it over directly from a bitcoin casino game wallet that I was fooling around with at that moment!

It was totally instant, totally anonymous, and there is NO WAY IN HELL that I ever would've given $2 bucks to help Captain Crunch if I'd needed to fill out any kind of bank or credit card processing form to do it. 

It JUST wouldn't have happened, never, nope, no way, "sorry".

But dropping a couple BITS in there, on a whim?  Hardly a second thought, and I was happy to do it!

SO... what's my point?  Long story short: people don't know they'll use bitcoin until they have some bitcoin.

Once they have some, however they get it at first (gift from a friend? just to check it out? whatever...!!!) THEN, after a while... after bitcoin has gotten "boring" and is just THERE, and it's no longer anything really "new" or "special"... it will find it's place, in a million little ways, permeating thru all of global commerce, in ways that we all here probably can't even guess at, bitcoin will just get USED by virtually everyone, with hardly a second thought.  Kinda like what happened with email.

Those millions of dollars of software development investment that Silicon Valley and Wall Street are backing BITCOIN businesses with, right now, are what's going to make this happen. 

And like in the WWW revolution there will be winners and losers along the way, and the final end result shape and appearance of what e-commerce will look like AFTER all that happens, in the future, is probably nearly impossible for anyone to imagine today...

But, IMHO there's a very good chance it'll happen and that BTC will still be there, largely the same as it is today, at the heart of it all.


Summary(?)
=========

ONLINE / CYBERSPACE E-Commerce is a reflection of the real world, and in the MEATSPACE normal commerce economy, both CASH and CREDIT CARDS are still both used.

Credit cards have chipped away at cash usage over the last several years, but cash still works better in a lot of ways.

Dropping a couple bucks into a street performers donation jar, or paying a friend for a coffee are never done with a credit card. But if you have a couple bucks in your pocket?  Sure.

The INTERNET has clearly always needed a CASH function. 

It has credit cards already, and they work mostly fine, sometimes very well, and that probably won't totally go away any time soon.

But BITCOIN is here now for the long-needed CASH function of online commerce to finally take it's place.

And it likely WILL happen, just as soon as "normal people" are only exposed to the idea long enough for it to "just happen"... without all the hype and freaking out about it, LOL

I have a different view.

medium of exchange; yes great.
store of value; volatile, but upwards (on a longer term view)
Unit of account; not at all excellent

So the only thing 'lacking' is more stability in price. That will come ....... at higher prices.

Yeah it is so pathetically transparent there are no words really (lol).

^ Such a humanitarian 

*sigh* Again, I'm here to warn you people and hopefully prevent any new potential "greater fools" from getting burned.

I could give two shits about manipulating the market down, as I won't ever be buying bitcoin again. I sold while we were still above $600, because I could see what was in store. I'm now trying to help others see the light.

Which begs the obvious question, "why are you here?".

The answer of course is you are a liar, promulgating bearish and negative opinions about bitcoin with the sole aim of manipulating others on this forum to sell. And why? So you can buy of course.

And that's where your understanding falls short

Bitcoin is potentially the best form of money this world has ever seen.

Of course there is additional friction in Bitcoin's network effect because unlike the Internet one need to contribute value to participate in it. Those who have higher risk tolerance and can envision the reward will get in earlier. Laggards will get the crumbs.

You error is believing the pool of money speculators in Bitcoin has been exhausted.

In fact, I will venture to say that the next wave of adoption will be again fueled by nothing more than speculation. I'm sorry to say this but we are not yet at a stage where the utility proposition is primary.

In fact, someone broke it down in such a perfect way on reddit today I will just copy/paste that here and let you address it.

Cliff Stoll was merely expressing his doubts about the feasibility of online shopping and education in the classroom. He was partially right about the classroom part... computers have not replaced teachers in public schools, it's still really just a supplement. He was wrong about the online shopping part, and he's admitted such.

But the fundamental problem that bitcoiners can't get over is... bitcoin is not the Internet.

Cliff played a significant role in developing security best practices during the first couple decades of the Internet's development. He would have told you back in 1995 that the Internet was a significant advancement in technology, even if he had doubts about how it would effect our everyday lives.

But bitcoin is only a de-centralized payment network... and we already have plenty of payment methods. Is the public hungering for decentralization? So far, it certainly doesn't seem like it. And why would they? Their government issued money is working perfectly fine.

The Internet was a suite of protocols connecting computers around the world via switches, routers, and packet switching technologies. Bitcoin is simply one protocol built on top of that. It's delusions of grandeur. Apples and oranges.

BTC solves the Byzantine Generals Problem. Take a look at what was said about the internet: http://www.newsweek.com/clifford-stoll-why-web-wont-be-nirvana-185306

The www was invented in what, 1993? 1994? Within a couple years, I was online with an Internet portal, and I was just a snot nosed kid who watched Nickelodeon all day. If I knew about it and was using it within such a short span of time, then obviously it had a significant impact on society. I could go online and find information about anything I wanted almost instantly via Yahoo or Alta Vista.

Bitcoin doesn't solve any problems for average people. If you tell people that it's more secure, then it's a lie, because nobody is backing the funds, and they can be lost or stolen with no course of action for the consumer. You can tell them it saves them on international transaction fees, but it doesn't matter, since anyone who actually cares about such a thing has a credit card that waives them anyway.

So what's left? Comparing bitcoin with the world wide web is a moot point.

The only thing that gets people's attention is when you tell them that it raised in price 10,000x over the past couple years. Money. That's all that anyone cares about, and until bitcoin actually provides real utility to users -- which it probably never will -- it's a flash in the frying pan of history. In 5 years, nobody will even remember any of this bullshit.

but the internet solved a problem of information availability that was not currently being solved.  BTC doesn't solve a problem, just makes certain monetary transactions slightly easier (once you know what your doing).  I really dont think the comparison between the early internet and btc right now are valid.  BTC is not doing something new and different like the internet was doing.  I mean heck even walmart allows walmart to walmart money transfers now!

variation over time obviously means *something*

ATMs, circle etc at least are a necessary part of infrastructure should anybody ever decide to use Bitcoin. A reduction in barriers to entry.

in the 1990s, the www did nothing for average people either.

I could list problems it solves and opportunities it creates, but it's boring doing that for the hundredth time. You would be correct in saying they do not all exist *yet*. But I'm betting with my wallet that they will within a few years.

Wallet creation means nothing, I've created hundreds of wallets, and I just played with bitcoin for a bit as a small time interest. People can make as many as they want, and routinely do for security principles.

ATMs, merchant adoption don't really matter either. These are just savvy people trying to make a quick buck off of the public.

The only true fundamental that matters is the fact that bitcoin does not solve any problems for average people. Nobody is discovering bitcoin and then buying some so that they can go shopping online. There is no point!

Some of you believe that speculation alone can keep driving it up, but without real utility, that will eventually fail. I think we have already reached that point, since there is nothing more to really look forward to. Merchant adoption has already happened, and all it has done is cause selling pressure. The ETF will probably be denied, but even it it does go live eventually, it doesn't matter. It's just one more method (one of many) to buy bitcoin. It's not an innovation, just another way to lure in "greater fools".

Bitcoin is not the stock market.

This troll argument is that Bitcoin's fundamentals don't cut it when in fact they are stronger than ever.

If you believe the price on a few exchanges is representative of Bitcoin's infrastructure and fundamentals, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

Yes, stock investors, for example, are totally trolls because all they care about is the price. You aren't serious, are you? Please tell me that you are spending somebody else's money so carelessly.