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Topic: Qora | POS | Assets | Names | Polls | Automated Transactions | Social Network - page 152. (Read 249434 times)

legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
I'll say it again, I don't care if Qora gets on Azure, I don't think it matters much either way, but the idea that if it does go up on Azure that Microsoft is going to somehow own or exercise control over future development of Qora is just unsupported by reality.

And I'll say this just once (as I don't need to repeat myself unlike you).

Why would MS bother to enforce you to make an agreement that just gives them ownership of a README file and an installation script?

And how do you think MS is going to profit from this?
(or do you think they are offering free cloud services from the good of their heart)

And again (this part I will repeat) you say you have virtually no Qora and you don't care - but here you are posting again in support of Azure - why?
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000
Reality is stranger than fiction
Bter still does not show my old deposit (5million - address http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QNweiL91zLU7v8yw2G3XGkR9pd6zokQTTL) . My balance was transferred yesterday (not by me!) to this address: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QXNz5kBknsgNYtRKit4jCDNVm7YYoXLZdB

Is bter working right to all of you?

BTER hasn't worked for me with Qora for months! I think you've lost those coins Tim Sad

I was informed from some members that their balances started to show right. Sad that's not the case for me..
legendary
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1116
You're willfully ignoring the fact that the only code you submit to them, and thus the only code that is covered by the two page license agreement, is modifying a json template and adding a readme. I added the template and a bitshares example above.

Again - just because Bitshares does something doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do.


I don't understand how you don't understand this, but I'll try one last time. Let's take the Bitshares Azure repo for example:
https://github.com/Azure/azure-quickstart-templates/tree/master/bitshares-ubuntu-vm

The only code that the Larimers or someone acting on their behalf submitted was a modified json template file, a readme, and a build_bitshares.sh script, which installs a bunch of dependencies, clones the Bitshares repo, and builds Bitshares from source. They never submitted any actual Bitshares code to get on Azure, it's just a script that clones their repo and builds it from source. The only "code" which the license agreement signatory is giving to Microsoft is the build script. I'm not sure how you can't see that by looking at a short two-page license agreement and an actual example repo. (Besides the fact that the Larimers run their blockchain like a corporation and they probably did run the whole process by a lawyer or a few.)

I'll say it again, I don't care if Qora gets on Azure, I don't think it matters much either way, but the idea that if it does go up on Azure that Microsoft is going to somehow own or exercise control over future development of Qora is just unsupported by reality.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
Bter still does not show my old deposit (5million - address http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QNweiL91zLU7v8yw2G3XGkR9pd6zokQTTL) . My balance was transferred yesterday (not by me!) to this address: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QXNz5kBknsgNYtRKit4jCDNVm7YYoXLZdB

Is bter working right to all of you?

BTER hasn't worked for me with Qora for months! I think you've lost those coins Tim Sad
sr. member
Activity: 422
Merit: 250
Bter still does not show my old deposit (5million - address http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QNweiL91zLU7v8yw2G3XGkR9pd6zokQTTL) . My balance was transferred yesterday (not by me!) to this address: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QXNz5kBknsgNYtRKit4jCDNVm7YYoXLZdB

Is bter working right to all of you?
It works well for me.
legendary
Activity: 1708
Merit: 1000
Reality is stranger than fiction
Bter still does not show my old deposit (5million - address http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QNweiL91zLU7v8yw2G3XGkR9pd6zokQTTL) . My balance was transferred yesterday (not by me!) to this address: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?addr=QXNz5kBknsgNYtRKit4jCDNVm7YYoXLZdB

Is bter working right to all of you?
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
I vote 'no' to Azure, there's no point, it's not worth the risk IMO
sr. member
Activity: 422
Merit: 250
You're willfully ignoring the fact that the only code you submit to them, and thus the only code that is covered by the two page license agreement, is modifying a json template and adding a readme. I added the template and a bitshares example above.

Again - just because Bitshares does something doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do.

BTW - if you have hardly any Qora and you don't give a fuck - why are you still posting?

Yes, I agree. If the qora community keep support add qora to MS, I will stop support the qora-wallet. I am the author of https://github.com/soliury/qora-wallet
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
You're willfully ignoring the fact that the only code you submit to them, and thus the only code that is covered by the two page license agreement, is modifying a json template and adding a readme. I added the template and a bitshares example above.

Again - just because Bitshares does something doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do.

BTW - if you have hardly any Qora and you don't give a fuck - why are you still posting?

(odd behaviour to say the least)
legendary
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1116
I think you should watch the documentary about what Microsoft did to Netscape before you post anything else (maybe that was before you were born?).

Microsoft have always been anti-open source and have always used copyright and patents as their main "weapon" of choice (as do other such corporations).

To call that "insane ramblings" just shows your incredible amount of ignorance and/or naivety.


You're willfully ignoring the fact that the only code you submit to them, and thus the only code that is covered by the two page license agreement, is modifying a json template and adding a readme. I added the template and a bitshares example above.
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
I think you should watch the documentary about what Microsoft did to Netscape before you post anything else (maybe that was before you were born?).

Microsoft have always been anti-open source and have always used copyright and patents as their main "weapon" of choice (as do other such corporations).

To call that "insane ramblings" just shows your incredible amount of ignorance and/or naivety.

Bitshares is a get rich quick scheme (as are most of the other projects in this area unfortunately) so that doesn't make a good example at all.

If you're not trying to "get rich quick" then why on earth are you so supportive of signing up with Microsoft?
legendary
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1116
Please feel free to continue with your insane ramblings at this time...

If Qora was not rescued by @Vrontis and the CIYAM Developers we wouldn't even be having this discussion (the coin would have already died).

So if you want to start calling me names then don't be surprised if I simply decide to no longer care about the project (insulting the people that made you money is not generally considered a wise move).

As soon as the public realise that the AT support has gone then Qora will die - so better do your pump and dump quickly.

If you didn't realise it I own *zero* QORA and so I simply would not be affected if its value went to zero.


I didn't call you names. I only added the insane ramblings bit because you were subtly accusing me of working for Microsoft, which is, frankly, insane. I don't care what you've done for Qora, I don't care if you continue, and I also don't hold very much Qora, it just bugs me to see people continually regurgitating outlandish theories in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Edit:
Here's the template you fill out and submit to them:
https://github.com/Azure/azure-blockchain-projects/tree/master/baas-template
This is all the code that you send, plus a readme file.

Here's the bitshares repo:
https://github.com/Azure/azure-quickstart-templates/tree/master/bitshares-ubuntu-vm
I'm sure Dan and Stan were happy to sign away all their rights to bitshares, right?
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
Please feel free to continue with your insane ramblings at this time...

If Qora was not rescued by @Vrontis and the CIYAM Developers we wouldn't even be having this discussion (the coin would have already died).

So if you want to start calling me names then don't be surprised if I simply decide to no longer care about the project (insulting the people that made you money is not generally considered a wise move).

As soon as the public realise that the AT support has gone then Qora will die - so better do your pump and dump quickly.

If you didn't realise it I own *zero* QORA and so I simply would not be affected if its value went to zero.
legendary
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1116
There is a legal document that talks about IP rights is there not (a license)?

Yet you don't seem to want any lawyer to look at it to determine if there could be any problem (that is rather suspicious in my mind). Instead you'd rather just go ahead and sign the agreement because you read some non-lawyer on IRC say "it'll be fine".

Microsoft are not a charity so why do you think they are doing this?

If you worked for Netscape then I think you'd have a very different opinion about Microsoft (and for that shit alone I would never, ever co-operate with such a despicable company).

Decentralisation is not helped at all by such cloud services as they can be shut down (every single node) with a single phone call.

This is about control and keeping it out of the hands of greedy corporations.


I posted the document that the submitter has to sign ( http://windowsazure.github.io/docs/Contribution%20License%20Agreement.pdf ). It's only two pages. Here are some relevant excerpts:

Quote
1. Definitions.
“Code” means the computer software code, whether in human-readable or machine-executable form, that is delivered by You to Microsoft under this Agreement.

...

4. Licenses.
a. Copyright License. You grant Microsoft, and those who receive the Code directly or indirectly from Microsoft, a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, irrevocable license in the Submission to reproduce, prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, and distribute the Submission and such derivative works, and to sublicense any or all of the foregoing rights to third parties.
b. Patent License. You grant Microsoft, and those who receive the Code directly or indirectly from Microsoft, a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, irrevocable license under your patent claims that directly read on the Code to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell and import or otherwise dispose of the Code.

That sounds scary, I guess, but as I also wrote several times (after speaking with people who have gone through this process), you don't submit any code to them that is in the actual github repo (even though there is nothing they could do to change the MIT license, but this is beside the point); all you submit is an install script that calls wget or git clone. That is the the code "that is delivered by You to Microsoft under this Agreement", you don't submit the entire repo, just an install script, so the only code Microsoft is saying they have copyright and patent licensing over is the install script. Please feel free to continue with your insane ramblings at this time...
legendary
Activity: 1890
Merit: 1086
Ian Knowles - CIYAM Lead Developer
There is a legal document that talks about IP rights is there not (a license)?

Yet you don't seem to want any lawyer to look at it to determine if there could be any problem (that is rather suspicious in my mind). Instead you'd rather just go ahead and sign the agreement because you read some non-lawyer on IRC say "it'll be fine".

Microsoft are not a charity so why do you think they are doing this?

If you worked for Netscape then I think you'd have a very different opinion about Microsoft (and for that shit alone I would never, ever co-operate with such a despicable company).

Decentralisation is not helped at all by such cloud services as they can be shut down (every single node) with a single phone call.

This is about control and keeping it out of the hands of greedy corporations.
legendary
Activity: 3136
Merit: 1116
I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, and I don't care one way or another whether Qora gets added to the Azure BaaS system, but can you guys with the crazy conspiracy theories provide a little bit of evidence as to what the fuck you're actually concerned about?

I'm concerned Azure is a tactic of MS to centralize the diverse crypto infrastructure we have now into a mega server farm platform they control, similar to what large shopping Malls and giant retailers have done to independent store owners. I see people like Blythe Masters and the big banks trying to do the same basic thing to the whole 'blockchain' concept itself - they want to control things, own things, things that should be open, because openness threatens their monopoly power & profits. They don't care about anything but profits, but what we have with decentralization can make a big difference in the world. These are the type of people who want to patent everything they can get their hands on, so they can 'own' basic knowledge and make $$. I hate that!

Look, I'm not trying to troll the thread, and as I said before I don't care if Qora is added or not, but you didn't provide any evidence that MS will have or want any control over Qora, not even a little bit. Just more speculation, that in my mind sounds like some tinfoil hat type of speculation. People already run nodes on Azure, Amazon, Google, etc. The only thing this does is add an install script so you can start up an instance with Qora already installed and syncing the blockchain immediately.
hero member
Activity: 573
Merit: 500
Bitcore BTX
Really !! Cheesy You are very lucky...

yubsep you're lucky indeed to have bought at 11 sat but I am luckier than you to have bought at 3 sat... Tongue

Holy moly
hero member
Activity: 655
Merit: 500
I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, and I don't care one way or another whether Qora gets added to the Azure BaaS system, but can you guys with the crazy conspiracy theories provide a little bit of evidence as to what the fuck you're actually concerned about?

I'm concerned Azure is a tactic of MS to centralize the diverse crypto infrastructure we have now into a mega server farm platform they control, similar to what large shopping Malls and giant retailers have done to independent store owners. I see people like Blythe Masters and the big banks trying to do the same basic thing to the whole 'blockchain' concept itself - they want to control things, own things, things that should be open, because openness threatens their monopoly power & profits. They don't care about anything but profits, but what we have with decentralization can make a big difference in the world. These are the type of people who want to patent everything they can get their hands on, so they can 'own' basic knowledge and make $$. I hate that!
hero member
Activity: 655
Merit: 500

As I mentioned in my post, we will be able to reach major corporations, banks, and other institutional players by getting on Azure. Also, by getting on Azure, we will have a lot more chance to get picked up by major news outlets like CNBC and get the press time and recognition we deserve.

Having said that, I recognize this is a decision that must be made by the entire community because this move will affect the value of all your investment. Therefore, I'd like to take this opportunity and urge everyone to withdraw your Qora from the exchanges and participate in the vote.

You can participate in the poll by casting your vote via the decentralized voting system in Qora client (Voting tab), and you can monitor the progress of the poll here: http://qora.co.in:9090/index/blockexplorer.html?poll=%20do%20you%20want%20qora%20to%20join%20microsoft%20azure%20baas%3F

As mentioned previously, the poll will run for 2 weeks and close on 15th of April. You, as a Qora holder, now have a chance to direct the destiny of Qora, so please vote confidently. Smiley Happy voting, everyone!

It's so great the Qora coin holders have the chance to vote on this MAJOR issue. Ask yourself this, if Qora gets into 'bed' with MS & Azure, do you think Microsoft will let us 'vote' on other important issues? NO, of course not, they will want to control things their way, and in any disputes they'll bully Qora community into getting whatever they want.

Microsoft does not care about decentralisation, so vote NO, and keep Qora independent!

What the everloving fuck are you talking about? What's with all the fear-mongering and tinfoil hat talk about M$ taking over Qora and controlling future development? First off, Microsoft doesn't give one or two shits about Qora. Second, there is absolutely no control handed over to Microsoft for getting Qora added as a BaaS; they get rights over what you put on their github repo and servers, i.e. a script that sets up Qora and starts syncing the blockchain. Third, if you're going to make outrageous claims, at least provide some evidence; all the people on this thread shouting about turning control over to Microsoft have supplied exactly zero relevant links backing up their (outrageous) claims of Microsoft pursuing control or adversarial legal action against Qora.

I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, and I don't care one way or another whether Qora gets added to the Azure BaaS system, but can you guys with the crazy conspiracy theories provide a little bit of evidence as to what the fuck you're actually concerned about?

Sorry you think my doubts about Microsoft's intentions towards Azure and crypto currencies is fear-mongering. I'll plead guilt to 'doubt-mongering' though, and those doubts make me vote NO. I can see the attraction of being on Azure, but if every other coin is doing it, isn't the fact that Qora isn't a good marketing tactic? Qora is the 'independent' coin, beholden to nobody but the coin holders and users.

I also believe CIYAM's  development of AT has kept this project on life support long enough for us to be even having this discussion at all. Without CIYAM's involvement I think we'll likely be heading back to crypto obscurity, just at the moment we're finally getting some momentum. If CIYAM was for for Azure then maybe I would think otherwise, but he obviously thinks something similar to myself.

So ... make the case why Qora without CIYAM on Azure is better than what we have now? We're doing OK now, so why the rush? What are the alternatives to Azure we can consider? Is there an option for another independent provider to provide similar services? MS did start in a garage after all, are young turks with big dreams still working in garages in 2016? I'd prefer to be working with Bill Gates circa mid 70's to what he became in later years.
sr. member
Activity: 658
Merit: 251
Really !! Cheesy You are very lucky...

yubsep you're lucky indeed to have bought at 11 sat but I am luckier than you to have bought at 3 sat... Tongue
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