Topic: Received BFL Jalapeño Today! - page 7. (Read 40241 times)

There are facts in what you say, but there are also conclusions presented as facts that seem fueled by frustration.

Fact: They missed deadlines.  But the word "lie" implies intent.  How can you be absolutely sure their project plans didn't reflect the ship dates that they stated at that time?  It's absolutely fair to say that they were wrong about the dates, but the conclusion of intent is unsupported by any facts I'm aware of.  They've been quite transparent about the problems they've been having (tho I do feel that they're somewhat overdue for an update atm.)  Unsupported conclusions are not "facts."

Fact: They've been marketing and doing press at the same time they've been working on product and missing deadlines.  But to imply that they're spending 'all of their energy' on these things to the exclusion of working on shipping products is (at best) hyperbole.

I too am disappointed that it's taken this long for them to ship, but I don't feel that disappointment and frustration give a person license to present, as fact, conclusions based on two-thirds fact and one-third anger.

congrats, happy for you

+1

In fact they have delivery dates, which has been proved A LIE for +6 months. Delays and more delays. It's outrageous to see how they send a few units to PR guys and WIRED magazine just to keep the money flowing in their preorder backlog. Man, how could you not feel that? They should be working their asses off in order to explain to their customers when they will be able to manufacture en ship en masse, but they seem to spend all their energy trolling in these forums and in PR stunts + aggressive advertising.

It's a shame.

I don't understand, is there some kind of mind control going on that I don't know about?

People will read Rampions message and take heed. That is their choice. The rest of the "hostages" will have to wait to see what happens or bail.

I think it is fair to warn everybody about past performance, but it is not fair to tell them what to do.  If people want to place preorders, it's no business of yours.  Warn them that BFL has only delivered a handful of units since taking preorders back in 2011.  Warn them that BFL has no precise delivery date.  But who are you to decide whether it is a good or bad investment for them?  That is a decision for them to make.

I think it's fair to warn everybody reading here that NO MORE PREORDERS should be placed until they really prove they can give PRECISE delivery dates for both past and new orders.

I do it because I don't like people to be wrong on the internet.  If something needs to be corrected, I correct it.  BFL didn't purposefully do anything malicious, so I defend them.  They don't deserve to have various non-customers on the Bitcointalk forum slander them.

I don't understand why people bother trolling for no reason/gain.  Seems a waste of time to me.  But I assume they have a different value system than mine, and therefore different motivations.

In this thread, there are a lot of people trying to claim that I (as a customer of BFL) should think or feel or act a certain way, but I don't.  I find such implications somewhere between silly and offensive, and said as much.

Seems legit Mr. Mahatma

I've made one mistake in that post though, "I just can't undestand" should be replaced with "There's no chance in hell"

Ah, that makes sense.  I might suggest that some here go well beyond skepticism.

Edit: does "being registered two weeks before me" really give you "old timer" status relative to me?

Different value system than yours.

Us old timers lived through the Mybitcoin.com debacle. We lived through the Bitcoin Savings and Trust implosion. We were here for the Bitcoinica apocalypse. We saw Mooncoin run off with everyone's money.  We saw exchanges get hacked and coins get stolen. We have seen fraud after scam after con appear on these forums. Noobies show up with dollar signs in their eyes, get fleeced of their cash and dumped in the gutter.

It is not healthy to let this sort of thing continue. A bit of skepticism is healthy.
Trying to shout down skeptics only adds fuel to the fire, and is usually an indication that the shouters have something to hide.

I just can't understand how anyone could defend BFL unless he/she has an incentive to do it (promised early machine or something) or hopes he might get one by placing himself in their backs.

I paid 13btc when I ordered mine.   

Wow    PuertoLibre,I think that is the best post you have ever written!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I have to give you a trollfactor of 0 on that one 

Keep talking like that & I may have to friend you on FB 

Well, I'm a BFL customer, and here's my story:

I ordered the 60GHash version back in early March.  I had been watching closely and figured that while their R&D process was being dogged by Murphy's Law, there was at least an 80% chance they'd ship before they got strung out too far and imploded (taking my money with 'em.)

I paid using the BitPay BTC to USD option, because at the time I'd spent zero direct dollars on BTC (mined every coin I had), and figured I'd just pay for the Bitcoin stuff with BTC.  (Seemed only natural.)

So, I knew at the time of payment that it was a gamble, and I'll bet most of the other people did too.  I'm following with great interest, but I'm not losing any sleep over it.

1.  I'm not worried about the fact they haven't meaningfully shipped yet.  The possibility I might never see any hardware existed then, and still exists today.  It's a little bit of a gamble just like everything else associated with Bitcoin right now.

2.  I'm not upset that the value of BTC climbed and there's a loss in opportunity cost while I wait.  I factored this in at the time.

3.  I personally find it refreshing that Josh is voicing a real, human presence in the forums, even if he does get sucked in by the trolls once in a while.  There was a book in the business section back in the 90s called "The Cluetrain Manifesto" that advocated communicating with your customers as a human being, not a corporate robot.  Because marketing is about relationship building, and people have relationships with people, not companies.  And there's no disputing that Josh is engaging us as a human being, here.  For better or for worse.

Overall, my concern level about this is about 3 on a 10 scale, and if I do wind up losing my money altogether (which may still happen), my disappointment will be maybe 5 on a 10 scale, because I knew it was a possibility at the outset.  Everyone that pre-ordered with BFL knew there was a risk of delay or failure, or it wouldn't be a pre-order.

So here's what fascinates me:

Why are people who aren't even customers so much more upset about this stuff than actual customers?  It's seriously a lot of time and (apparent) emotional investment into a game in which you have no skin.  Pure troll factor?

Makes me wish I had ordered Jala's instead of Singles, given that I was an FPGA upgrader as well!   

wooooow, wait - you trying to nail down bfl on statements they made?! big mistake!