Topic: Recieved 50GH BFL Single Today! - page 8. (Read 51125 times)

Are you saying that they put BitPay funds in an escrow wallet and paypal funds in a separate escrow account?
Or are you saying that they put both in the same escrow account?
If they did the former then they shouldn't have volatility risks, but that doesn't change the fact that customers used BTC to satisfy the payment for products priced in USD.

So you're saying that it was wrong for BFL to only offer refunds priced in USD? How the hell is that worse than offering no refunds at all?
I really don't understand how you all can even argue this... BFL products are priced in USD on their pages. Bitcoin prices are calculated in a case-by-case basis based on the current USD exchange rate.

IF
BFL generated unique bitcoin addresses to accept bitcoin for products priced in bitcoin
AND
BFL used paypal to accept varying USD amounts to satisfy their listed Bitcoin prices.

You might have a point.

The US Dollar is "legal tender for all debts public and private" and you will either receive bitcoin to satisfy the USD price on the invoice
OR
You will receive USD to satisfy the USD price on the invoice.

If BFL fully intended to price their products in bitcoin then it would make sense for them to refund their customers in the bitcoin price, no matter which way the customers chose to satisfy the bitcoin price.
HOWEVER
   BFL fully intended to price their products in USD therefore it would make sense for them to refund their customers in the USD price, no matter which way the customers chose to satisfy the USD price.

The volatility shouldn't matter if they are putting pre-order funds into an escrow account like they claimed. If they can't deliver for 12 months, then yes they have 12 months of currency risk that they should hedge. This is only a bizarre circumstance because BFL took the full amount in pre-orders (which is not usual) and held it for 12 months, but supposedly did not spend it.

BFL should have taken non-refundable deposits instead. Then there is no currency risk they need to hedge.

Sorry, I used the word debt incorrectly. I was meaning to say that in the transaction you are satisfying an amount in USD with bitcoin. Not satisfying an amount in bitcoin with bitcoin.


see



You should do a lot of things. I haven't seen you do anything good or bring up any good points in this discussion.

No, sir. Everything is there. Maybe you can help and tell me what important parts were left out?

He has left important parts out of the invoice shot for trolling purposes. Just add him to your ignore list. I have.

Pardon me, but customers don't have any USD debt to BFL neither before they place their order nor after that. The limited validity of an invoice is something very common in commercial practice. Such a document is called Proforma Invoice. That means if a customer pays in time this Proforma Invoice AUTOMATICALLY becomes Invoice. You should really have more business experience if you decide to continue this discussion!

Not really. If I pay in time I have a completely valid commercial document the validity of which is "forever".

The bitcoin price changes depending on the current value of bitcoin. This is one of the reasons why the invoice is only valid for so long. If the price in USD at the time didn't matter, why would they price their units in USD?


see

It clearly states that you have prices both in BTC and USD. I have deliberately used arrows to help BFL sock puppets and fanboys that close their eyes if they don't want to see the truth. All the text in any official document is equally important irrespective of the different fonts and sizes used.

It clearly says "Pay this invoice. Send 97.9672 bitcoins to ..."

see

Let's fan this fire, yeah?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=239343.new#new

Paypal currency conversion policy:
https://www.paypal.com/helpcenter/main.jsp;jsessionid=rV0JKsnTq3Z197277Pg2sQ4mJ1HJWQ5xpxnJnzGxvW9J1FhW03yL!-1588418?t=solutionTab&ft=homeTab&ps&solutionId=163394&locale=en_GB&_dyncharset=UTF-8&countrycode=GB&cmd=_help&serverInstance=9012
Refunds are performed using the exchange rate which was current at the time of the original payment.

Bitpay lets you price in Bitcoin, they let you keep the bitcoins.
https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-payment-gateway-api
https://bitpay.com/faq

Most of this argument is a result of misinformation like:
Oh, BFL is just doing it the same as everyone else! False. See above link for how Paypal does things.
Oh, BFL had no choice but to convert into BTC! False. See above link from Bitpay.
Oh, BFL needed to spend the BTC to design the ASICS! False. BFL has stated repeatedly the pre-order funds were/are kept separate and not used for operations.

The claims that "BTC isn't ready for people to buy stuff with it" is extra irony appearing on these forums.

This is all way too much logic and sense.

I don't ignore anyone. I'm also making everyone who has you on ignore read your post.  

becoin should realize that when customers choose to pay in BTC, using BitPay, to satisfy the USD prices listed in both the invoice and on BFL's product page

THAT

The bitcoin price is calculated on the spot to satisfy an amount in USD on the invoice. You are choosing to send your bitcoins at the time to settle a USD debt. I don't think bitpay even let's people price things in BTC. (correct me if i'm wrong)


edit: also this

That invoice even shows the conversion rate is valid for a limited time...

Yeah, I don't see how this is a thing. If the sale price was in BTC, you'd have a case. It wasn't, and you don't. They just offered a service to convert your bitcoins for you.

Basically, you sold your bitcoins to pay (in dollars) for the BFL miner. You are totally shit out of luck.

Hey i just want to say......

FCK anyone that quoted becoin. Dont you idiots understand that ruined anyone that ignores him?

Keep feeding the troll idiots.

It clearly states that the price is in dollars, but that you can pay with BTC.

I don't waste arguments on you. Others have done that for months. I'll keep hanging on to my arguments and hoard them in case they become the worlds primary currency.

Have you talked to your lawyer yet, becoin? Can you give us a trip report?

Anyone here familiar with the saying; 'flogging a dead horse'...?

If not, then: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flogging_a_dead_horse