Yes I agree we have to change random block reawrd i'ts fucking disaster.
Topic: [RESURRECTION] Taking Beecoin to the Hive Flying!MANDATORY Client Update! - page 8. (Read 24495 times)
April 20, 2014, 10:01:13 AM
April 20, 2014, 09:40:00 AM
Members were suggesting small tax with 24bn BEES - I was suggesting a larger block tax with 30bn BEES.
WE NEED SLIGHTLY MORE BEES, because we are already at 14bn+.
Even with 30bn, we may not see 22bn this year, because 30bn is to be achieved AFTER MANY YEARS OF COMPOUNDED POS.
So, even if we have 30bn, we need to make all our progress within the 14 - 22bn BEE range. We need to market BEECOIN aggressively within this range.
Soopy will soon be around, he is working hard behind the scenes.
I don't want to be rude, but please stop pushing ideas without critical proof. To plan a successful coin require a lot of understanding of game theory. Be careful trying something that may eventually back fire on ourselves.WE NEED SLIGHTLY MORE BEES, because we are already at 14bn+.
Even with 30bn, we may not see 22bn this year, because 30bn is to be achieved AFTER MANY YEARS OF COMPOUNDED POS.
So, even if we have 30bn, we need to make all our progress within the 14 - 22bn BEE range. We need to market BEECOIN aggressively within this range.
Soopy will soon be around, he is working hard behind the scenes.
As we all know, we currently have some issues with beecoin:
1. Most of the bees are left including the original dev.
2. The Beecoin net hash rate is very low and under frequent attack by multipools. So currently most of the coins are mined by the multipools. There are huge coins waiting to be dumped.
3. Beecoin price is very low.
4. Over 60% of beecoin have been mined.
What we need to act immediately is:
1. Change the algorithm. We need a hard fork, changing the algo from scrypt to X11 or blade256. So that we can keep the multi pools away, and avoid the incoming scrypt ASICs.
2. Change the random block rewords.
3. Adding POS.
4. Adding block tax. The tax rate is just some constant variables the bees need to decide at the last moment. But the work on the new wallet should be start right away.
As the the games or something else, these are the things that can be wait. We don't want to build the Rome city in a day.
Soopy is performing changes in 3 stages, in this order:
- Algorithm (x11 plus POS)
- Block tax
- Games
I AGREE THAT WE NEED TO CHANGE THE RANDOM BLOCK REWARDS
April 20, 2014, 09:11:59 AM
Members were suggesting small tax with 24bn BEES - I was suggesting a larger block tax with 30bn BEES.
WE NEED SLIGHTLY MORE BEES, because we are already at 14bn+.
Even with 30bn, we may not see 22bn this year, because 30bn is to be achieved AFTER MANY YEARS OF COMPOUNDED POS.
So, even if we have 30bn, we need to make all our progress within the 14 - 22bn BEE range. We need to market BEECOIN aggressively within this range.
Soopy will soon be around, he is working hard behind the scenes.
I don't want to be rude, but please stop pushing ideas without critical proof. To plan a successful coin require a lot of understanding of game theory. Be careful trying something that may eventually back fire on ourselves.WE NEED SLIGHTLY MORE BEES, because we are already at 14bn+.
Even with 30bn, we may not see 22bn this year, because 30bn is to be achieved AFTER MANY YEARS OF COMPOUNDED POS.
So, even if we have 30bn, we need to make all our progress within the 14 - 22bn BEE range. We need to market BEECOIN aggressively within this range.
Soopy will soon be around, he is working hard behind the scenes.
As we all know, we currently have some issues with beecoin:
1. Most of the bees are left including the original dev.
2. The Beecoin net hash rate is very low and under frequent attack by multipools. So currently most of the coins are mined by the multipools. There are huge coins waiting to be dumped.
3. Beecoin price is very low.
4. Over 60% of beecoin have been mined.
What we need to act immediately is:
1. Change the algorithm. We need a hard fork, changing the algo from scrypt to X11 or blade256. So that we can keep the multi pools away, and avoid the incoming scrypt ASICs.
2. Change the random block rewords.
3. Adding POS.
4. Adding block tax. The tax rate is just some constant variables the bees need to decide at the last moment. But the work on the new wallet should be start right away.
As the the games or something else, these are the things that can be wait. We don't want to build the Rome city in a day.
April 20, 2014, 08:44:41 AM
OK, LETS AGREE 6% TOTAL BLOCK TAX, AND 30BN COINAGE.
BLOCK TAX:
2% soopy
2% bee
2% games gambling projects
With 30bn coinage, we may not even see 20bn this year, if block rewards are tapered and POS kicks in. Remember that we need features to make beecoin shine, or we will just be a typical $100,000 coin.
THE GAMES SHOULD BE VERY SIMPLE GAMES. THEY REALLY ARE GIVEAWAY FAUCETS INCORPORATED INTO THE QT CLIENT, but where members must play a simple game, then see if they have won very few coins or not.
Rewards or losses should be made only once per day per game per wallet.
BLOCK TAX:
2% soopy
2% bee
2% games gambling projects
With 30bn coinage, we may not even see 20bn this year, if block rewards are tapered and POS kicks in. Remember that we need features to make beecoin shine, or we will just be a typical $100,000 coin.
THE GAMES SHOULD BE VERY SIMPLE GAMES. THEY REALLY ARE GIVEAWAY FAUCETS INCORPORATED INTO THE QT CLIENT, but where members must play a simple game, then see if they have won very few coins or not.
Rewards or losses should be made only once per day per game per wallet.
April 20, 2014, 07:53:49 AM
Members were suggesting small tax with 24bn BEES - I was suggesting a larger block tax with 30bn BEES.
WE NEED SLIGHTLY MORE BEES, because we are already at 14bn+.
Even with 30bn, we may not see 22bn this year, because 30bn is to be achieved AFTER MANY YEARS OF COMPOUNDED POS.
So, even if we have 30bn, we need to make all our progress within the 14 - 22bn BEE range. We need to market BEECOIN aggressively within this range.
Soopy will soon be around, he is working hard behind the scenes.
WE NEED SLIGHTLY MORE BEES, because we are already at 14bn+.
Even with 30bn, we may not see 22bn this year, because 30bn is to be achieved AFTER MANY YEARS OF COMPOUNDED POS.
So, even if we have 30bn, we need to make all our progress within the 14 - 22bn BEE range. We need to market BEECOIN aggressively within this range.
Soopy will soon be around, he is working hard behind the scenes.
April 20, 2014, 07:39:39 AM
We will soon have 15bn coins minted.
we really do need 30bn coinage.
I was advocating 12% block tax on the remaining 15bn coinage (assuming we do increase coinage). Block tax should be taken from mined and POS coins:
TAX: 2% DEV, 2% BEES, 2% PROJECTS, 6% GAMBLING GAMES.
GAMBLING GAMES are just a giveaway faucet incorporated into the wallet, but as gambling game. We want to attract non-miners to use the wallet.
These figures are really 1%, 1%, 1% and 3% respectively, of the total coinage - these figures will never really be attained, because 30bn coinage is like theoretical INFINITY.
THIS IS STILL SUBJECT TO DISCUSSION.
we really do need 30bn coinage.
I was advocating 12% block tax on the remaining 15bn coinage (assuming we do increase coinage). Block tax should be taken from mined and POS coins:
TAX: 2% DEV, 2% BEES, 2% PROJECTS, 6% GAMBLING GAMES.
GAMBLING GAMES are just a giveaway faucet incorporated into the wallet, but as gambling game. We want to attract non-miners to use the wallet.
These figures are really 1%, 1%, 1% and 3% respectively, of the total coinage - these figures will never really be attained, because 30bn coinage is like theoretical INFINITY.
THIS IS STILL SUBJECT TO DISCUSSION.
You have heard people say they only want 3-4% block tax how will you convince them for 12%.... 8% is in the middle , let's meet them in the middle and start going with this.
Let's get it decided today every day longer is just pushing beecoin further down the ranks.
1 are we acclerating the minting to get to POS quicker and save ourselves the hassle of algo change? and make the coin more like black coin
2. are we having 12% block tax, 8% block tax or 4% block tax.
need a poll and leave it open for one more day. No point everyone writing different things in the thread going round and round.
When the community has make up the decision, just go in action.
Time is not on our side.
April 20, 2014, 07:31:07 AM
We will soon have 15bn coins minted.
we really do need 30bn coinage.
I was advocating 12% block tax on the remaining 15bn coinage (assuming we do increase coinage). Block tax should be taken from mined and POS coins:
TAX: 2% DEV, 2% BEES, 2% PROJECTS, 6% GAMBLING GAMES.
GAMBLING GAMES are just a giveaway faucet incorporated into the wallet, but as gambling game. We want to attract non-miners to use the wallet.
These figures are really 1%, 1%, 1% and 3% respectively, of the total coinage - these figures will never really be attained, because 30bn coinage is like theoretical INFINITY.
THIS IS STILL SUBJECT TO DISCUSSION.
we really do need 30bn coinage.
I was advocating 12% block tax on the remaining 15bn coinage (assuming we do increase coinage). Block tax should be taken from mined and POS coins:
TAX: 2% DEV, 2% BEES, 2% PROJECTS, 6% GAMBLING GAMES.
GAMBLING GAMES are just a giveaway faucet incorporated into the wallet, but as gambling game. We want to attract non-miners to use the wallet.
These figures are really 1%, 1%, 1% and 3% respectively, of the total coinage - these figures will never really be attained, because 30bn coinage is like theoretical INFINITY.
THIS IS STILL SUBJECT TO DISCUSSION.
You have heard people say they only want 3-4% block tax how will you convince them for 12%.... 8% is in the middle , let's meet them in the middle and start going with this.
Let's get it decided today every day longer is just pushing beecoin further down the ranks.
1 are we acclerating the minting to get to POS quicker and save ourselves the hassle of algo change? and make the coin more like black coin
2. are we having 12% block tax, 8% block tax or 4% block tax.
need a poll and leave it open for one more day. No point everyone writing different things in the thread going round and round.
April 20, 2014, 03:45:41 AM
We will soon have 15bn coins minted.
we really do need 30bn coinage.
I was advocating 12% block tax on the remaining 15bn coinage (assuming we do increase coinage). Block tax should be taken from mined and POS coins:
TAX: 2% DEV, 2% BEES, 2% PROJECTS, 6% GAMBLING GAMES.
GAMBLING GAMES are just a giveaway faucet incorporated into the wallet, but as gambling game. We want to attract non-miners to use the wallet.
These figures are really 1%, 1%, 1% and 3% respectively, of the total coinage - these figures will never really be attained, because 30bn coinage is like theoretical INFINITY.
THIS IS STILL SUBJECT TO DISCUSSION.
we really do need 30bn coinage.
I was advocating 12% block tax on the remaining 15bn coinage (assuming we do increase coinage). Block tax should be taken from mined and POS coins:
TAX: 2% DEV, 2% BEES, 2% PROJECTS, 6% GAMBLING GAMES.
GAMBLING GAMES are just a giveaway faucet incorporated into the wallet, but as gambling game. We want to attract non-miners to use the wallet.
These figures are really 1%, 1%, 1% and 3% respectively, of the total coinage - these figures will never really be attained, because 30bn coinage is like theoretical INFINITY.
THIS IS STILL SUBJECT TO DISCUSSION.
April 20, 2014, 03:05:11 AM
BEECOIN needs features to make it an expensive high demand coin - people must really want beecoin - this is where the gambling game concept becomes useful.
A teenager on a train, or an office worker will be attracted to beecoin, if they discover that they can earn a few bees by merely downloading the wallet and playing games.
I wanted a game reservoir to be funded from the block tax, that will in turn work as a large faucet to reward gamers, instead of giving them coins for free.
Jealous miners can also play games to earn the coins back, while their rigs are also mining coins.
People on this forum do not understand - My reason for advocating for slightly increased coinage is to fund games that will create a magnetic attraction of the masses to beecoin.
We do not want beecoin to be stuck at $20,000 or $200,000 market cap, rather we should aim to reach $5,000,000 to $20,000,000, even to exceed blackcoin and whitecoin.
I feel that mere x11 plus POS will not take us far beyond $200,000, unless we are lucky.
WE NEED SPECIAL FEATURES TO SUCCEED.
A teenager on a train, or an office worker will be attracted to beecoin, if they discover that they can earn a few bees by merely downloading the wallet and playing games.
I wanted a game reservoir to be funded from the block tax, that will in turn work as a large faucet to reward gamers, instead of giving them coins for free.
Jealous miners can also play games to earn the coins back, while their rigs are also mining coins.
People on this forum do not understand - My reason for advocating for slightly increased coinage is to fund games that will create a magnetic attraction of the masses to beecoin.
We do not want beecoin to be stuck at $20,000 or $200,000 market cap, rather we should aim to reach $5,000,000 to $20,000,000, even to exceed blackcoin and whitecoin.
I feel that mere x11 plus POS will not take us far beyond $200,000, unless we are lucky.
WE NEED SPECIAL FEATURES TO SUCCEED.
April 20, 2014, 02:27:37 AM
Even if we increase coinage to 30bn, we are already half way there. We need to get algo sorted, then next we need SERIOUS MARKETING, so that we hit a major exchange.
April 20, 2014, 02:09:53 AM
My bad on the multipool...I see what you mean now. It can't be POW mined anymore after it goes purely POS.
My idea of games is just to make beecoin wanted and popular - also to help spread some bees to non miners.
You see, we are already at 14bn. Even if we eventually increase coinage to 30bn, we may be at 22bn mark by the end of the year, the other 8bn coins should be POS coins.
I would love to incorporate a very simple game to the wallet, to make beecoin appealing to the masses.
Games are really a large giveaway faucet, but with some gambling characteristics - miners and non miners would be encouraged to compete for bees.
SO IN THE END, BEECOIN WILL HAVE SOME SELLING POINTS
- a real "save the bees campaign"
- an honest POS coin
- an interactive gaming coin.
April 20, 2014, 12:34:00 AM
My bad on the multipool...I see what you mean now. It can't be POW mined anymore after it goes purely POS.
April 20, 2014, 12:25:18 AM
April 20, 2014, 12:16:22 AM
I really like what cryptohunter has proposed. I never thought about this scenario for Beecoin.
Would an algo change make any difference at all? There would be a multipool set up to continue mining to help maintain and secure the blockchain, though the reward would only be a couple of coins per block. Would it benefit from a change to X11 or Blake256...if even to differentiate from BC and WC just a little?
Some thoughts:
There are 10 billion coins left out of the original 24 billion.
1. A block tax could be implemented on the remaining 5 billion coins to be mined of...let's say 4-6%. This would strictly be used to pay the dev. This leaves 4.4 to 4.6 billion coins to attract miners with large 200k reward blocks.
2. This leaves 5 billion coins from the original 24 billion for POS.
3. If we are going to add to the total minting, then we need to do it now...while Beecoin is basically an unknown to most traders and miners.
The additional minted coins (3-6 billion) would be used for all bee related projects, games and gambling. I'm not a fan of adding to the total but if it's actually needed to fund Beecoin going forward, then so be it. I would try to stay closer to the lower side of the estimate (3 billion additional coins). A lot can be done with that amount if we end up adding to the total. This would increase the total minting to 27 billion.
Whatever we do, we need to get started soon. Soopy is ready to get to work...we just need to come to some final decisions. I think a specific time frame or deadline needs to be set for implementing any changes to Beecoin. We've been talking about this for over a week. If we don't set one, we'll just keep talking about it.
I'm with the new idea. I really like it and it sets Beecoin apart from most other coins. This should help Beecoin get some attention.
These are just ideas and everyone needs to chime in and have their say.
Would an algo change make any difference at all? There would be a multipool set up to continue mining to help maintain and secure the blockchain, though the reward would only be a couple of coins per block. Would it benefit from a change to X11 or Blake256...if even to differentiate from BC and WC just a little?
Some thoughts:
There are 10 billion coins left out of the original 24 billion.
1. A block tax could be implemented on the remaining 5 billion coins to be mined of...let's say 4-6%. This would strictly be used to pay the dev. This leaves 4.4 to 4.6 billion coins to attract miners with large 200k reward blocks.
2. This leaves 5 billion coins from the original 24 billion for POS.
3. If we are going to add to the total minting, then we need to do it now...while Beecoin is basically an unknown to most traders and miners.
The additional minted coins (3-6 billion) would be used for all bee related projects, games and gambling. I'm not a fan of adding to the total but if it's actually needed to fund Beecoin going forward, then so be it. I would try to stay closer to the lower side of the estimate (3 billion additional coins). A lot can be done with that amount if we end up adding to the total. This would increase the total minting to 27 billion.
Whatever we do, we need to get started soon. Soopy is ready to get to work...we just need to come to some final decisions. I think a specific time frame or deadline needs to be set for implementing any changes to Beecoin. We've been talking about this for over a week. If we don't set one, we'll just keep talking about it.
I'm with the new idea. I really like it and it sets Beecoin apart from most other coins. This should help Beecoin get some attention.
These are just ideas and everyone needs to chime in and have their say.
April 20, 2014, 12:04:05 AM
Intriguing...Blackcoin has turned out highly successful after POW phase is over and now strictly in POS and Whitecoin is trying to model the same and is doing ok trading at 1500+ satoshis. If we did this and cut off mining after 5 billion more coins, then we'd have to double the block tax to 4% - 4% - 4% to keep the amounts funded to each wallet the same.
that is true, i don't think that is an issue. Could be done.
1. new interest since blocks would now be double what they were even at the start.
2. quickly on to POS , no need to change algo
By then end of the POW for beecoin have the multipool ready so we can put miners straight on to that keep momentum going.
Of course this is a radical change and everyone needs to absorb this idea... if not we just go ahead with the x11 pos idea as before.
If coinage is increased to 30bn, we will really only see about 20bn. Block tax needs to be implemented fast, block tax is the real issue.
We need 2% DEV, 6% games faucet, 2% BEES, 2% PROJECTS.
This is what I want, if possible. I even want much more to go to gambling games faucet - this could be a large faucet, where members have to play a particular game (a very simple game), to earn very few bees, once every day.
Yeah but i see people saying they only want 4% total tax.... so i guess we have to meet in the middle somewhere. Hence why i mentioned 6% or 8% tax.
game/casino/give away - this all can come under projects really from the same pot. We will keep a ledger.
April 19, 2014, 11:56:42 PM
Intriguing...Blackcoin has turned out highly successful after POW phase is over and now strictly in POS and Whitecoin is trying to model the same and is doing ok trading at 1500+ satoshis. If we did this and cut off mining after 5 billion more coins, then we'd have to double the block tax to 4% - 4% - 4% to keep the amounts funded to each wallet the same.
that is true, i don't think that is an issue. Could be done.
1. new interest since blocks would now be double what they were even at the start.
2. quickly on to POS , no need to change algo
By then end of the POW for beecoin have the multipool ready so we can put miners straight on to that keep momentum going.
Of course this is a radical change and everyone needs to absorb this idea... if not we just go ahead with the x11 pos idea as before.
If coinage is increased to 30bn, we will really only see about 20bn. Block tax needs to be implemented fast, block tax is the real issue.
We need 2% DEV, 6% games faucet, 2% BEES, 2% PROJECTS.
This is what I want, if possible. I even want much more to go to gambling games faucet - this could be a large faucet, where members have to play a particular game (a very simple game), to earn very few bees, once every day.
April 19, 2014, 11:32:07 PM
Intriguing...Blackcoin has turned out highly successful after POW phase is over and now strictly in POS and Whitecoin is trying to model the same and is doing ok trading at 1500+ satoshis. If we did this and cut off mining after 5 billion more coins, then we'd have to double the block tax to 4% - 4% - 4% to keep the amounts funded to each wallet the same.
that is true, i don't think that is an issue. Could be done.
1. new interest since blocks would now be double what they were even at the start.
2. quickly on to POS , no need to change algo
By then end of the POW for beecoin have the multipool ready so we can put miners straight on to that keep momentum going.
Of course this is a radical change and everyone needs to absorb this idea... if not we just go ahead with the x11 pos idea as before.
April 19, 2014, 11:22:12 PM
i for one am getting tired of a lot of coins using hard forks, that means constantly downloading full blockchains all the time, why cant the updated programs contain block data or why cant new versions just over write with the latest version and leave everything else alone?
maybe some body needs to rewrite the whole qt. just think what is going to happen in years to come, nobody will join a coin as it will take forever to update, many current members will leave due to constantly having to reload everything, only a few people will be left and the coin will be worth nothing!
forget about adding new things or spreading the word etc make a qt so it works and updates without having to go through a load of waiting and starting from scratch every month or two!
having the best qt will get more people using the coin than having the prettiest picture or fastest block or advertising etc, word of mouth is cheaper and more powerful than wasting time on advertising!
maybe some body needs to rewrite the whole qt. just think what is going to happen in years to come, nobody will join a coin as it will take forever to update, many current members will leave due to constantly having to reload everything, only a few people will be left and the coin will be worth nothing!
forget about adding new things or spreading the word etc make a qt so it works and updates without having to go through a load of waiting and starting from scratch every month or two!
having the best qt will get more people using the coin than having the prettiest picture or fastest block or advertising etc, word of mouth is cheaper and more powerful than wasting time on advertising!
April 19, 2014, 11:12:33 PM
If we finally have a total mintage of 30bn, do you know that we may not even physically get to the 20bn point this year! Do you know that POS compound interest and final block rewards will consume more than 6bn coins? This amount will never really be seen.
Just like bitcoin that has total coinage of 21m, but is still stuck at 12 - 13m, may not get to 14m this year.
Realistically, with 30bn max coinage, we need to do all the work before approaching 20bn coinage, because the other 10bn will be a battle.
This is where games and gambling become useful - as miners, gamers and investors begin to scramble for the GAMBLING RESERVIOR, that typically pays out 1 BEE per wallet per day (just an imaginary figure to emphasise fierce competition and future scarcity of beecoin)
Just like bitcoin that has total coinage of 21m, but is still stuck at 12 - 13m, may not get to 14m this year.
Realistically, with 30bn max coinage, we need to do all the work before approaching 20bn coinage, because the other 10bn will be a battle.
This is where games and gambling become useful - as miners, gamers and investors begin to scramble for the GAMBLING RESERVIOR, that typically pays out 1 BEE per wallet per day (just an imaginary figure to emphasise fierce competition and future scarcity of beecoin)
April 19, 2014, 10:53:28 PM
Intriguing...Blackcoin has turned out highly successful after POW phase is over and now strictly in POS and Whitecoin is trying to model the same and is doing ok trading at 1500+ satoshis. If we did this and cut off mining after 5 billion more coins, then we'd have to double the block tax to 4% - 4% - 4% to keep the amounts funded to each wallet the same.
We could have already minted 14bn, so stretching this coin to 27 -30bn in an attempt to fund projects and games is a very good idea.
People will not physically see this amount, but rather the useful amount of coins will be around 20bn, the other 7 -10bn (if my idea works) will be for POS, SCARCE MINTING, GAMBLING - this is the point of fierce competition between gamblers and miners to keep beecoin alive.
We need to keep beecoin alive after POS, or it could become a forgotten coin, please remember that many coins are still springing up.
POPULARITY and MARKETING are the issues here, not coin dilution or devaluation
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