Topic: Russian Gas ban - A problem for Europe or suicide for Russia? - page 11. (Read 14504 times)

"No matter how much you say baklava, it won't be sweet in your mouth"
Or
How many do not deny the facts - fantasies will not become reality (c) I

FACTS again:
1. India is the largest buyer of the oil of the terrorist country, Urals brand.

2. Yes, China has recently increased its purchases a little, but India, as it has been, has remained the most important buyer of oil from the country of the terrorist.

3. India trades with Russia (as part of the world show "de-dollarization"  ) in Indian rupees, which is not the first time the "fraternal people of Russia" squeals You can deny the reality, but done between Russia and India go in Indian rupees, between Russia and China - in Chinese yuan. Without Russia's right to exchange them for the dollars she critically needs!

4. Yes, the Indian government buys oil for a penny and sells it to its people at the market price, "I was talking about this

^^^ Not sure about the 70% figure. That was true two months back, but now the share seems to have reduced. China, Pakistan and Turkey are also purchasing large amounts of crude oil (especially Urals) from Russia. And now coming to earning profits - Yes. Indian government is earning profits by refining Russian crude to diesel and gasoline, and then selling them at market prices to Indian citizens. Product exports to Europe are from OPEC crude. And finally, we no longer use rupees to trade with Russia. Most of the trade now is being conducted using AED (United Arab Emirates Dirham).

I have an assumption that you either did not understand the fact I cited, or you are trying to "turn the information" in a direction convenient for you. I will think about the first option. And I repeat once again, and anyone can check this FACT: Of the total volume of Urals produced by Russia, approximately 70% is bought by INDIA. This information is available in open sources of information.

Your second statement is the one you like. But the reality is different.
Buying oil from Russia for next to nothing, India is pursuing quite pragmatic goals - to EARN money.
And for this, 2 schemes are used:
- Manipulation with prices in order to keep a high price for oil products on the LOCAL market and earn money from their citizens
- Manipulations with sanctions oil. Here the scheme is not complicated. The second "friend of Russia" - China - works according to this scheme. Urals oil is bought, then mixed with other grades, and sold on the foreign market under the guise of non-sanctioned oil. There is a lot of information about this scheme, whether you like it or not.

Regarding transactions with Russia - do you have any complaints about the fact that India buys oil not for DOLLARS, but for Rupees, without Russia's right to convert them into DOLLARS?

Only partially true.

India gets almost 50% of it's oil from OPEC nations. There is a long-term contract with take-or-pay clause so we are forced to purchase their crap at elevated prices. Indian petrochemical facilities are refining this crude to diesel and fuel oil, and then exporting it to the EU and other oil consuming nations. Russian crude accounts for less than 50% of the Indian basket. We don't re-export this crude to other nations. The refined products derived from Russian crude is solely to be used within India (I guess this is one of the guarantees that was given to G7 by the Indian finance minister).

And one important thing. India doesn't re-export crude oil. We only export refined products. So your claim of India mixing different grades of crude and then selling it is false.

You are a great example of a resident of Russia

I remember the USSR. Where everyone was proud of fictional achievements:
- Victory over Nazi Germany
- the strongest army in the world
- the best education / medicine / the most reading nation.
Everyone is jealous of us and everyone is afraid of us!
...and other nonsense

What ended? That's right - sanctions, and the population, brought to the state of livestock, refused to continue to exist and chose the path of independence and DEVELOPMENT. And no ideology and PROPAGANDA about a "happy life" in the USSR helped! At the same time, the USSR also shamefully fled from Afghanistan, losing to this small country ...

Modern Russia. Values have changed and now the inhabitants of Russia are "proud" of the fact that:
- we are the best at stealing
- we will destroy everyone
- we are a great empire
- The USA is nobody, the dollar is worth nothing
- Sanctions won't hurt us
We are a nuclear power.
- we are the second army of the world
- we have and only we have "unparalleled" weapons
...and other nonsense
Periodic attempts to rattle "nuclear mudya", but no one pays attention to this. But the whole world, having seen the "second army of the world" and total theft at all levels of government and the economy, sees only squeals and cartoons of "Soyuzmultfilm", where all this can take off.
Almost lost the war to Ukraine. Russia is bombing its own Bolgorod. Sanctions are destroying the economy... Russia will not even have time to get out of Ukraine

What, from being an expert on politics, military, economics, oil and gas you have no clue what's happening?
Simple, the US oil industry is outperforming and pumping record after record of oil:
The U.S. Oil Industry Is Trending Toward A Record-Breaking 2023

while China manufacturing is contracting instead of recovering to pre covid levels:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/chinas-manufacturing-contracts-signaling-recovery-concerns/articleshow/99882543.cms

And of course, gas is going lower and lower and touching 34 euro per mwh.

Don't you feel stupid now for posting crap like this all year long?

US economy has indeed collapsed multiple times. The last 2 are in the 70's then about 30 years later in 2008 and now in less than 15 years it is on the verge of another collapse.

Keep in mind that empires don't collapse overnight. It is a long and gruesome process that can be slowed specially when they are actively trying to slow it down (not solve it though). For example USSR wasn't at the peak of its strength one day and destroyed the other. It took years and a very long cold war to break USSR apart.

US is also on the same path, although as the superpower of the unipolar world of the past US had managed to slow down its demise to buy time with methods like Petrodollar, invasion of oil rich countries to steal their resources, etc.
But today the world is very different. US not considered the only superpower anymore. US military that once was feared and by sending a carrier group they could do a regime change in a country before the carrier group reached it, is now seen as a weak militia at best where their bases are used for target practice!
In other words when Bush ordered destruction of 7 countries in 5 years to steal their resources back in early 2000's he never imagined that 20 years later the number of body bags they send back is going to be more than the number of barrels of oil they steal.
To put into numbers the ~$10 trillion they wasted in West Asia without anything to show for it and the massive $31.7 trillion national debt, nearly a trillion dollar in trade deficit, etc. is going to ensure the collapse of United States.

It is not just the economy that is on the verge of collapse. The political system with the serious polarity that can not be solved, the society that is no longer under control, the world that openly showing the lack of trust and interest in relations with US, etc. are all going to slowly lead US into its total collapse.

I will give you one simple but illustrative example of the fact that you are deeply mistaken. And on the example of my respected India
So - at the moment, India buys almost 70% of Russian Urals oil. It is a fact. Well, no one buys it anymore, why not buy it. Especially if you can make money from it. The scheme is extremely simple:
- Russia sells Urals oil to India at huge discounts
- India partially sells this oil on the domestic market with a 100% or more markup
- India mixes the rest of the oil with other grades of oil and sells it to other countries. Nominally, something is no longer Russian, but a kind of mix, the origin of which is difficult to prove.

But there are 3 interesting FACTS in this scheme (you can easily check them):
1. India buys oil from Russia... for Indian rupees and not for dollars
2. India PROHIBITED the exchange of Indian rupees for dollars that ended up in the accounts of Russian suppliers.
3. India sells Russian oil to the foreign market, mixed with others ... for US dollars!

Tell me, where is the world slipping out of the hands of the United States and abandoning the dollar?

You are completely delusional. Any efforts to stop Russia to avoid sanctions are useless. Russia is like a mythical Hydra - for every head chopped off, it would regrow two. You are yet to understand this. Sanction this company (Gatik Ship Management) and they will open two new ones. Close this logistics channel (India) and they will find another one elsewhere. As Sithara007 mentioned already in this thread "they are using the United Arab Emirates Dirham (AED), and in some cases using the Swiss Franc (CHF). Pakistan, and some of the other countries are using Chinese Yuan (CNY)" so banning USD will have no effect either. Oil is flowing uninterruptedly into EU via the Baltic ports and nobody is even trying to stop it. Many brands have left Russia back in March 2022 and yet they are available in Russia up to this day. The Russians are very good at avoiding sanctions, evading taxes, hiding wealth etc. You claim that you're Russian so you have to know this better than me. It's in their blood. And you can't beat them in their own game.


So, you're trying to say that Russia is not a nuclear superpower? Muahahaha... congrats, new levels of dumb reached!  Perhaps you'd like to take a look at this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_with_nuclear_weapons it will open your eyes. 

Has anyone checked the crude oil prices? Despite the massive production cuts from OPEC, Brent crude is still trading at $76 per barrel. What has happened here? The supply has gone down by a massive amount. But the demand has also gone down. Anyone know the reason for this? Anyway, oil consuming (importing) nations would be happy. $76 per barrel is still a bit on the higher side for us. We would prefer somewhere in the vicinity of $40 to $60 per barrel (which was the case in 2020). Anyway, OPEC has run out of options. Now it is clear that they can't manipulate the prices anymore by shutting down production.

The approaching collapse of the US economy has been talked about for a very long time (for several decades).  

However, the US, as a state, has not yet collapsed.  This does not mean that there are no negative trends in relation to the United States.  One of these negative trends is the increase in the age of current US presidents, as well as the main contenders for this position.  This is very bad, as it indicates the degradation of the US political system.  

It can be concluded that social elevators do not work in the United States, allowing young people to actively engage in politics and implement new social innovative concepts.

Oh, I knew there was a reason for the usuals trying to derail the topic again with the whole US and Iran the Shitpower of the East thing

LNG prices have come down below 30E/Mwh for the first time, with a huge -6.436 E/Mwh discount compared to pipe gas traded at TTF.
https://www.acer.europa.eu/gas/lng-price-assessment
So to put this in perspective, LNG from the US is right now only
- 4 Euros more expensive than what Russian gas was before the invasion of Crimea, only 13% since 2013
- 6 Euros more expensive compared to 5 years ago, so that would be only a 26% increase since then

And of course, even with buyers showing  little interest gas deposits are getting easily filled
https://agsi.gie.eu/ Full 62.04%
And it's the same with Asia, the whole thing about China re-opening triggering a crisis was just another made-up story
Asian spot LNG prices hit 23-month low amid weak restocking demand

First of all, thank you very much - you just confirmed my assumption - you just don't understand how many processes work
Secondly, I will conduct another educational program for you Do not thank!
To fight criminals - it is not necessary to be near him. I will explain for you, far from reality:
- the shadow fleet of the country-international terrorist, was created in 2022. Gasket companies were created under it. Who manage this "fleet" outside the jurisdiction of the terrorist country.
- The EU and the rest of the adequate world, before introducing any punishments, very accurately examine the gap - who violates, according to what scheme, who helps. This takes time. At the moment, the complete picture has been drawn up, and the civilized world is moving to the stage of implementing punishments.
- Sanctions against this new formation (shadow fleet) will not be imposed on the route of the tanker itself, but by blocking financial flows for companies that: serve the tanker, provide port services, unload / load, etc.


A simple concrete example:

At the end of April, the largest carrier of Russian oil to India, Gatik Ship Management, headquartered in Mumbai, which assembled a fleet of 48 tankers with a total capacity of more than 30 million barrels, already fell under the US sight.
A company little known about before the outbreak of the war, which took over a $1.5 billion tanker fleet, lost international insurance because of a breach of the price ceiling mechanism.
Gatik is a recipient of services from the American Underwriters Club. It is a member of the International Group of P&I Clubs, or IG P&I, which provides insurance for more than 90% of the world's shipping.
According to Bloomberg, Gatik was deprived of insurance on the terms of "protection and compensation", which, in particular, covers the risks in the event of an oil spill. Without it, the company's tankers may be denied access to ports and straits, such as the Turkish Bosphorus and Dardanelles.
Can you imagine how far you are from reality and understanding of processes? ))



PS I'm sure you know that nuclear global superpowers can't lose a war? In case they do, all of us will lose. Have you got your nuclear bunker ready?
In the case of Russia - This is a fairy tale, as well as about the second army of the world, and weapons "unparalleled" )) Fake, with which the Russians are trying to calm themselves, but ... The reality will be different!

For the past couple of years I've been talking about the demise of United States and even compared it with demise of Soviet Union (USSR vs US lol). Although it was usually met with denial but funny enough the think tanks in US have been saying the same thing for the past couple of months and the mainstream media is also starting to say what I was saying many years ago!!

Here is the most recent one from National Interest which shyly hints at this downward spiral and even compares it with how USSR went down. I particularly loved this quote:
I personally consider this downtrend's start from Reagan's administration with each subsequent administration turning things a lot worse. The last straws were the two of the worst politicians this world has seen: brainless Donald and Sleepy Joe.

Make sure to read the second page of the article where it hints at the deep rooted and very rich and powerful corruption that has been and will continue to prevent prevention of this demise.


P.S. You should also see this in the context of why US started the proxy war with Russia and why there is even a gas ban on Russia to begin with; which leads to US selling its own gas/LNG at outrageously high prices to Europe that was buying super cheap Russian gas. Among a lot of other things that US regime is doing to desperately postpone the USSR like fate that is waiting for it.

P.P.S. The worst part is that the solution is extremely simple! All it takes is for United States to become a "normal" country. To stop tens of different adventures around the globe. To cut the funding of terrorist organizations. etc. By then US will be left with trillions of surplus budget instead of a massive budget deficit. Money that can be spent building the decrepit American infrastructure that is falling apart every day (like the trains that keep derailing almost every week) and help build the economy by going back to being a product based economy instead of a debt based on with a massive trade deficit. Which would then solve other social issues including the "zombie" infestation, the millions of homeless families, increasing number of supermarket raids by hungry Americans, ...

Most of the gas (especially LNG) from Russia is still ending up at European storage facilities. It is crude oil cargoes that have changed the destinations. And yes, one of the consequences have been the usage of alternate fiat currencies. Here in India, we are making payments to Russian oil producers using the United Arab Emirates Dirham (AED), and in some cases using the Swiss Franc (CHF). Pakistan, and some of the other countries are using Chinese Yuan (CNY). Indian importers wanted to make the payments using the local currency, but the Russians told them that they have tons of rupees in their reserves and at this point it is impossible for them to spend this stash.

Muahaha... last time I checked EU was nowhere between Russia and India. Another symbolic, useless, self-sacrificing move from the US sockpuppet. Why don't they block the oil stream flowing in via the Baltic ports? Many EU countries (including Ukraine) are buying oil from Russia using this channel. Why don't they stop it? The truth is they can't. Like a junkie needing his fix. 


I'm sure you know that nuclear global superpowers can't lose a war? In case they do, all of us will lose. Have you got your nuclear bunker ready?   

You described everything exactly. Yes, Russia is trying, at least somehow, to circumvent the sanctions. And the creation of a shadow fleet was one of those options. But, as they say - "how many ropes do not twist - there will be an end." The EU is starting to fight the shadow fleet of the terrorist country. I am sure that other civilized countries will also join this process - violation of laws should be punishable. Moreover, all participants in this process - from the offender himself to his accomplices.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-08/eu-targets-russian-oil-transfers-at-sea-in-sanctions-enforcement

One fact must be accepted - the Western world has ceased to be that "soft substance" that it was 5-10 years ago. When they expressed maximum concern about crimes, they continued to deal with criminal countries. Now the situation has changed. Criminals will be punished regardless of their size and significance. And Russia became the first, and will be SHOWINGLY punished

This Russian gas ban is seemingly having an unintended effect of Russia finding new partners willing to launder their natural resources and setup new methods of trade that bypass the American dollar. I think we’ve reached the point where the tighter the US clenches it’s grasp, the more the world slides out from our palms.

Sorry, I didn’t read your answer right away, I thought it was another nonsense .. I re-read it - it turned out to be another nonsense

I understand your position. You don't need a dialogue, you need a "bazaar squabble, primitive traders" Sorry - this is not my profile, I'll even "lose" you in this battle with pleasure
Believe me - to argue with a fool, this means I will have to sink to your level, where you have huge advantages - you can say anything, insult, manipulate, just behave like a "monkey". Enjoy the victory... on your intellectual bottom

And by the end of this year, we will return to the story about oil, and how "Russia managed to get around the sanctions", and how its "friends" - India and China - saved it .... Oh, more precisely, "undressed" and then abandoned it. You can write down this prediction

Proxies related to the Russian government setup a ghost company called Gatik Ship Management in India almost one year ago. Since then, this ghost company has amassed 61 oil tankers (fleet growing with each passing month) and is now shipping a majority of the Russian crude oil that is destined to India. As far as I know, this ghost company is controlled by a few Russian oligarchs. India is receiving Russian crude at a discount of $5 to $10 per barrel (after including freight and insurance) and a large part of the difference between FOB price and DAP price is eaten up by Russian proxies.

More details here:

https://www.telegraphindia.com/business/whats-up-at-mysterious-mumbai-tanker-firm-thats-one-of-worlds-biggest-since-the-ukraine-war/cid/1934774